Updated 272

lhau posted:
hungryhalibut posted:

Why are you an annoyed user?

Annoyed because I had to find more boxes to replace the 272 function, and wasting about 1/2 to 2/3 the value of it......

I have to sympathise with Lhau here to a degree however rather than keep adding things to 'improve' the 272 perhaps he should have cut his losses and started again with something different.

Most of us like to upgrade when we feel the need and when the benefit of doing so has been properly appraised. This usually means upgrading in steps unless you have the financial means to go straight to the end game, which I would suggest few of us have. It is also human nature to 'test the water' before we dive in.

Like so many, I have upgraded in steps (possibly a couple too many steps, I grant you) and have been appreciative that Naim have a sensible ladder you can ascend and it is your decision of how steep the ladder is set and how quickly you wish to ascend. For example I happily used my NDX bare for quite sometime and loved the uplift in SQ a separate streamer gave me. I then added an XPS (of sorts) and and then a NDS which gave yet another huge uplift in SQ. Finally a 555DR was added to the NDS which, quite frankly, took the NDS to another level again.

I realise that a ladder with so many rungs can be confusing and at times creates some redundancy, but I applaud such an approach as it allows the music lover to progress in small or large steps, according to desire and affordability.

Personally, I don't thing Naim should alter their upgrade and audio philosophy. They clearly believe separate, linear power supplies using well specified transformers is the route to optimal SQ. Having heard what an upgrade to a power supply does (on both sources and pre amps and indeed power amps with the introduction of DRs), I can only concur with Naim's philosophy here. The importance of the power supply also explains why Naim have invested so much in introducing DRs wherever they are effective. And I applaud Naim for making the addition of DRs an upgrade we can all choose to have done on our existing power supplies.

What is not to like, assuming box count is of less importance to you. If you can only accept a low box count then there are other wonderful audio equipment manufacturers that can oblige, but it simply is not part of Naim's DNA.

Oh the statement Preamp is not 2 boxes? I am a bit surprised.

Anyways I think the original message I was trying to say is quite relevant to this thrrad: in my opinion(or wish) if there is an upgrade in 272 coming, I think the streamer and the Dac are the prime candidate to have a facelift and the PreAmp as good as it is, can be relatively untouched. 

Will I likely buy a 272-2? probably not that I am moving on, but that doesn't stop me from wishing it will be something better.

nigelb posted:

 

........

 

What is not to like, assuming box count is of less importance to you. If you can only accept a low box count then there are other wonderful audio equipment manufacturers that can oblige, but it simply is not part of Naim's DNA.

Nigel I appreciate all the folks who have documented their upgrade path in multiple threads over the years and enjoy reading the travelogue.  

I would disagree with your statement regarding DNA. NAIM does support a low box count and I believe they discuss how they have taken technology and advancements from their separates and engineered it into their integrated products.  I have accepted a low box count of an NDX > SN2 which sits quite nicely on my rack and for me sounds fantastic. Folks who want low box counts do not have to look beyond Naim to find a fine solution.......

JMHO and YMMV

lhau posted:
...

Will I likely buy a 272-2? probably not that I am moving on, but that doesn't stop me from wishing it will be something better.

Until you've heard a 272 powered by a 555DR, you haven't really heard how good it can sound.

Given the longer service interval for the 500 series components, a s/h 555 becomes even more rational (I got mine for £4k @ 6 years old, hardly more than a new XPS2DR and still with 9 years of service life left).

seakayaker posted:
nigelb posted:

 

........

 

What is not to like, assuming box count is of less importance to you. If you can only accept a low box count then there are other wonderful audio equipment manufacturers that can oblige, but it simply is not part of Naim's DNA.

Nigel I appreciate all the folks who have documented their upgrade path in multiple threads over the years and enjoy reading the travelogue.  

I would disagree with your statement regarding DNA. NAIM does support a low box count and I believe they discuss how they have taken technology and advancements from their separates and engineered it into their integrated products.  I have accepted a low box count of an NDX > SN2 which sits quite nicely on my rack and for me sounds fantastic. Folks who want low box counts do not have to look beyond Naim to find a fine solution.......

JMHO and YMMV

Yes, I agree that Naim have used trickle down learning to improve their integrated products, which have always been a part of their product line over many years, indeed I owned a Uniti2.

My comment about DNA and how it relates to separates and bulky power supplies is really about their design philosophy higher up the product line - i.e. Classic components and above. The only exception to this 'separates' philosophy in this arena is the 272, and as I see it, Naim appear to be saying the 272 is as far as they can push their ability to consolidate components before serious SQ compromises are felt.

Who knows, new learnings in how to effectively isolate components within the same box may allow Naim to push their ability to consolidate component further and give those who wish for a low box count more options, but I see no sign of that yet. I say that because it would have been logical and more cost effective to launch a 272.2 with the new streaming platform when the other separate streamers were launched, but I could be entirely wrong here.

It’s important to bear Naim’s capacity in mind - they were bitten by the Uniti launch and with the streamers are releasing them one at a time with several months between. So to add a new platform 272 at the same time would have been too much for them, I’d suggest.

Having listened to a Nova and having owned a 272/250 I think it’s delusional to suggest that the Nova is as good. It’s not. And it’s worth remembering that the 272 can be massively upgraded, in a way that the Nova cannot. The Nova is not the new 272, it’s the new SuperUniti. 

Mike Sullivan posted:

I actually think you are right in your conclusion there Nigel. And, that the Nova is as good as a 272/250, and maybe better in some areas, so that is the “new 272”.

I wonder if you’ve actually listened to the systems side by side? I have and, imo of course, the Nova comes close to the bare 272, but does not quite match the 272/250DR combo. Add a power supply (in my case the 555DR) and the 272 leaves the Nova for dead! I agree with HH about the Nova being a new, improved SuperUniti, but there it stays.

I have listened to the Nova and 272/250 side by side at the Naim factory - several other forumites were also there. The speakers were Focal Maestros - huge things that cost around £35k. To me the 272/250 clearly sounded better but not £3,300 better. Although I could afford the price I would not pay more than £1k tops to change in terms of sound quality, and then I wouldn't because I so much prefer the new streaming platform and its capabilities, especially Roon. in fact as it stands I wouldn't even contemplate a straight swap. Any new 272 replacement would have to be a lot better to tempt me away from my Nova, but then I'm done with lots of boxes so a separate power supply wouldn't come into the decision.

Different ears, different priorities. It would be interesting to hear what the others who were there thought - several are frequent posters here.

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