WiFi Network Issues in General

Given  the recent number of Naim networking issues would it not be a good idea to add a featured topic on how to set up a robust WiFi network.  I'm sure S-i-S must get fed up of repeating (no networking pun intended) himself. 

I'm sure there are loads of people who think that there WiFi is working perfectly with their Extenders, Repeaters, Ethernet over mains etc and end up blaming Naim.  Nobody notices the occasional drop-out when browsing the Web or on Social Media sites etc but for streaming it's clearly noticeable and so very irritating!

Cheers

Steve

Original Post

I got fed up with the (occasional) drop outs - it is just so annoying - so I had the floors up and have laid cables going from my router to my Atom (and iMac, as two are as easy to lay as one).  I now have no drop outs AT ALL and the sound quality is outstanding.

I know many people cannot do this, but if it is an option I would consider it.  In my case it was worthwhile despite being a day lost and a lot of aggro.

Just sayin'.

Tony

A "sticky" topic isn't a bad idea but of course, not every wifi solution will work for everyone, either for practical or operational reasons.
Most people have their ISP router and simply expect it to work everywhere.
A modern house with timber walls covered in plasterboard generally won't suffer issues but, any older UK stone or scent concrete flat / apartment, will have different issues to homes of other constructions.
I guess there's no "one size fits all".

Hi Steve, good post 😀    I guess when I get fed up repeating something I ignore the post, but usually happy to try and help... but yes in short I am puzzled by the fact that some pay thousands of pounds for network based audio equipment, and then really compromise on the network supporting by using convenience kludges or bad set ups and then get frustrated when things don’t work as they should..

The bottom line for streaming is best use end to end Ethernet between router, media server, Wifi access points and streamer ..  avoid kludges or options to provide powerline adapter bridges, Wifi extenders, non point to point Adhoc mode Wifi bridges,  wireless mesh Wifi nodes for streaming.. etc. Keep it simple... avoid uneccessary network connections like fibre media converters in a network segment, unless you need to have a segment over 100 metres in length... 

If you are going to stream via Wifi, ensure you use (prefereably at least two)  Ethernet connected wireless access points near the streamer (within good Wifi signal quality and range )... don’t rely on a single ISP router Wifi access point in the corner of your house somewhere.....

I think given that premise most people will generally have reliable and optimum SQ performant networks, with good UPnP / Naim app functionality.

The dropout issue with internet streaming on the older architectures is something that can occur irrespective of home network setup... although mitigated with the latest firmware.. if you are plagued by this still then the answer, assuming you have optimised your home network, see above, is get a newer architecture  Naim streamer, or use an internet streaming proxy server like BubbkeUPnP Server....

Completely agree with S I S. Would only add four points; 1, when all else fails, read the instructions. 2, the occasional complete network reboot, discussed in these forums, will solve many problems and may be necessary if new equipment is added to the network. 3, if the app plays up, especially after an update try uninstalling / reinstalling. 4, try contacting Naim support by phone, I found them most helpful. Rich 

Thanks Simon

I've learnt a lot on this forum from yourself (and others).  I knew Ethernet over mains was not good but thought that Wifi extenders were ok,  but as I discovered when I owned an Arcam rPlay which streams Tidal/Qobuz via the control pad, they're not.

I bought an Edimax WAP which was much better but I had UPnP discovery issues, the only fix was to reboot the Edimax.

Adding a Cisco 2960 didn't help with discovery, nor did I expect it to but it was a nice quiet 8 port version in nice condition at a good price on eBay.

My current WAP is a repurposed BT Hub with some insulation tape over the "Broadband Not Connected" light. Discovery is now works every time and Asset's listings are really fast.  A tenner off eBay! 

A run of Cat 5e from the BT Hub upstairs to the Cisco and Cat 6 from there to ND5XS, QNAP, RasPi etc
Very little cost involved.

Personal experience of this is that the further a network moves away from its simplest form - one short Ethernet cable from router to streamer, the less robust it is, and given that troubleshooting is beyond most of us it becomes an exercise in frustration when it fails for no obvious reason yet other internet access continues apparently to work fine. When streamed radio on the 272 and now on the Muso continually drops out yet the same programme plays flawlessly through the iPlayer / web site / Sounds app on a phone or tablet, it's hard not to blame the Naim box. 

I accidentally switched my router off & back on again on Saturday, and then had to power down and reboot everything in sequence to get streamed radio working reliably again. With a family on the internet and at least one phone booster that can take up to an hour to fully reset and provide connectivity, trouble shooting isn't something that can just happen. It'd be great to have an overview of what stops Naim gear from working when other sources are just fine, but short of having a friend who's also a network engineer (what a stroke of luck... ), rebooting it all when it starts to play up may be the only reasonable solution. 

One possible cause of drop outs which I've not seen mentioned when using WiFi is multiple routers in nearby houses using the same WiFi network channel. Download a network channel analyser to see if this is the case. You should run the analysis several times. Router's are supposed to automatically change channels to avoid this but often they don't. If this is the case then you would need to manually alter the channel your router uses. Rich 

Two points.  When someone's Sonus works, or old Squeezebox stuff works, and then their Naim doesn't, the frustration/anger is quite understandable. (Yes, it does seem that Naim have made improvements to both the previous gen and newest gen networked devices.)

Second, many people don't understand wifi at all and expect it to "just work" as it has for their phones and tablets, even though they use the standard ISP router tucked into a corner as Simon says. That's much more their problem.

A freebie - a third.  Dealers' willingness and capabilities to help out the frustrated customer varies widely. 

My Wi-fi is delivered around the house by a BT mesh network...the “no.1” satellite is connected to the BT HomeHub6 (whose dual bands are turned off). The other two satellites complete what seems to be a fairly robust network. I binned my EoP set up on advice from the forum.

At present my wi-fi connected minimac hosts Roon Core and sends the music to my hugo via USB.

I am thinking about  moving the mimimac away from the hifi and getting some kind of network adaptor/bridge to deliver the signal to the Hugo...the plan would be to get another BT satellite and connect it to the adaptor via an Ethernet cable...does this make sense?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Hi Steve, if you work out how to log into the ‘enable’ configuration interface on the 2960.. I can give you some IOS config that should help with discovery performance on the whole of your home network using functionality built into the switch.

Hi Simon,  yes please.  That could be interesting.

I've no issue with logging on to the 2960 as I did a factory reset on it connecting via the console port.  Hmm now what did I set the password too.  LOL

Hi Steve - ok - add the following line into the running-config

<2960switch-name>(config)#ip igmp snooping querier

 

if it errors you might have semi invalid VLANs on your switch in which case add a  switch loop back address to the end of the statement.

To check it is working - do the following show command - and you will see the querier source address for all active VLANs on you switch - which of course might just be one VLAN

 

<2960switch-name>#show ip igmp snooping querier
Vlan IP Address IGMP Version Port
-------------------------------------------------------------
1 192.168.0.229 v2 Po1
5 192.168.0.229 v2 Po1
7 192.168.0.229 v2 Po1
10 192.168.0.229 v2 Po1

 

This function adds the IGMP when you haven't got a multicast router configured, which will be the case for most home networks  - this ensure on those devices which are IGMP snooping that they keep the ports open for connected devices in that multicast group - in this case the SSDP group used for UPnP discovery. This shows I am running V2 IGMP as well.  This will also help Apple Airplay and mDNS functionality as well. This will improve discovery speed and discovery accuracy and stop ports timing out from the  discovery  group.

 

 

And 

<2960switch-name>#show ip igmp snooping groups
Vlan Group Type Version Port List
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
5 239.254.127.63 igmp v2 Fa0/7, Po1
5 239.255.255.250 igmp v1,v2 Fa0/5, Fa0/6, Fa0/7, Po1

Here this shows multicast group address 239.255.255.250  (which is the SSDP multicast IP address) actively assigned to port Fa0/6 - which is my Naim NDX, and also assigned to Fa0/7 which is a local wifi access point after I have just opened the Naim app whilst the iPad is registered to it... prior to the Name app running Fa0/7 will not be a member of the discovery group.

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