Witch hat cables

hungryhalibut posted:

How on earth is my comment unhelpful?

You seem to have no interest in the product but would hate someone to find out that a non Naim cable could be as good or nearly as good as your expensive Superlumina at a fraction of the price. Why else would you make the comments you have?  Ever thought of trying some witch hat cables yourself? 

Why do 'cables' have the potential to cause such tetchiness? Always have done on here.

Weird.

For the record I have used the WH DIN/XLR and found it an improvement over the stock cable.

I now use SL cables and these are a significant improvement on anything else I have tried, admittedly at a significant cost.

nigelb posted:

Why do 'cables' have the potential to cause such tetchiness? Always have done on here.

Weird.

For the record I have used the WH DIN/XLR and found it an improvement over the stock cable.

I now use SL cables and these are a significant improvement on anything else I have tried, admittedly at a significant cost.

Quite agree. I have followed the same route. 

Phil

Back from Camino Frances having walked from Pamplona to Santiago de Compostela (729 km). Amazing experience.

Jonn posted:
hungryhalibut posted:

How on earth is my comment unhelpful?

The first sentence is helpful and accurate as most cables do take a while to bed-in.

The second sentence is disparaging as well you know.

Hope this is not becoming a habit as it sullies you often good advice.

Sorry, it wasn’t meant to be. What I was getting at is that it can take a month or two for cables to run in and show their full potential. It’s great that Witch Hat offer a 30 day refund, but it may mean the purchaser must make a decision on whether to keep them without knowing if they will change further. That’s all. 

It’s a shame when people read negativity when there is none intended. 

hungryhalibut posted:
Jonn posted:
hungryhalibut posted:

How on earth is my comment unhelpful?

The first sentence is helpful and accurate as most cables do take a while to bed-in.

The second sentence is disparaging as well you know.

Hope this is not becoming a habit as it sullies you often good advice.

Sorry, it wasn’t meant to be. What I was getting at is that it can take a month or two for cables to run in and show their full potential. It’s great that Witch Hat offer a 30 day refund, but it may mean the purchaser must make a decision on whether to keep them without knowing if they will change further. That’s all. 

It’s a shame when people read negativity when there is none intended. 

Yes I see what you mean. For the record my Phantom speaker cables took 7-10 days to run  in and have been fairly consistent since then.

I have their digital lead between my CD5 XS and 272, the Hatpin 4 from 272 to 200DR and Phantom speaker cable, the latter two since early January. I still have A5 and TQ Black, but have no intension of switching back to either.

One thing I have found is that the Speaker placement seems to become a lot more critical. When I had let them run in i did need to move the speakers to fine tune the placement. Last month we re-decorated our living room (where the system is) and it has taken me 2 weeks to find that sweet spot, but when it comes into focus BOOM, love it.

Restoring order to this thread, playing music for most of the evening and one of my favourite bass guitarists Jaco Pastorius sounds superb via the Phantom cable, best I have heard but hey that's my opinion. I love what the NACA5 has delivered for half my life (20÷ years) but this Phantom is special.

 

HiFiman posted:

Restoring order to this thread, playing music for most of the evening and one of my favourite bass guitarists Jaco Pastorius sounds superb via the Phantom cable, best I have heard but hey that's my opinion. I love what the NACA5 has delivered for half my life (20÷ years) but this Phantom is special.

 

Order restored. What a champion 🤪

Japtimscarlet posted:

The point I was making was that it's easy to get swept along by a new fad and then weeks or months later find that you preferred what you had

If that's seen as overly dismissive or offensive to some people....tuff ...I won't loss any sleep over it ..

I don't have an issue with the point you're making - it's a valid point - but things can be said in different ways, but personally I prefer to be respectful of other people's choices and opinions.

Most of it boils down to snobbery and the fact that some other manufacturer has developed something that's cheaper and to my lugs better than NACA5, we don't live in a stagnant world and things move on okay Naim have the Super Lumina cable but at a cost of nearly 10 times the Phantom but I would never knock the Lumina as I have never tried on my setup.

 

I think the reason the subject of cables is so divisive is rooted in the perceived 'value' (or lack of value depending on your perspective), which in turn, is conditioned by the high prices charged for some cables combined with a perceived (or indeed actual) low material cost of these cables.

Not that Phantom cables could be considered as 'high price' but then you have the additional 'non-Naim' catalyst to contend with which gets some even more 'excited'.

Some folk will never accept such high prices and will never consider posh cables, and that is a fair position to hold. Others will never accept any component unless it has a Naim badge/stamp on it. A few will listen to the effect a posh cable can have on SQ and decide they are worth the money. But then some challenge the judgement of others over the 'value' of certain cables and those challenges (and defences) can become personal. Strange.

Again I think it is the low perceived material value of a posh cable that is the catalyst for these type of 'discussions'.

Apologies to the OP for the diversion, maybe we should get back to discussing cables rather than discussing each other.

Jonn posted:

Agree. It always strikes me as odd that some people choose to comment on the relative quality of components they have never heard or make platitudinous statements that are of little use to anyone.

Spot on! Lost count of the number of posts starting with “I haven’t actually ever heard or tried what you’re asking about, but...........”! I liken them to the public bar commentators, who know bugger all but love the sound of their own voices!

HiFiMan - (This is off topic, but very briefly) what made you swop your XP5XS for a 555PS DR Power supply for your 272? Did the XP5XS not bed in very well?

"To me the XP5XS is excellent value especially the price I paid and has made a nice improvement to the overall sound and will get better as it beds in."

Jim, the XP5XS is excellent value and I used mine for well over a year great upgrade for the 272 and I loved this setup.

Temptation I guess got the better of me, a great deal came up on a used 555DR and thought what the hell and purchased it plus I already had the 250DR and wanted DR all round.

Once tried the XPSDR and the difference between the XP5XS and XPSDR was not big enough to change but the 555DR is something else and has transformed the 272 into a different pre altogether.

Also the 555DR will be a PSU that will stay with me long term and who knows Naim may bring out the 372 etc......

Not sure if my experience adds much to what is ultimately a highly subjective debate but here goes. 

I swapped old secondhand naca5 for lovely sparkling new phantom cables with naim plugs. I found it hard to be sure of much difference but let the phantoms run in and then changed back and forth and decided that I preferred the naca5 ( with help from other more objective listeners). I returned the phantoms and got the promised refund after 28 days with no hassle albeit I’m not sure why I had to wait so long but wh did say it would take a while. I then replaced my tatty old naca5 with brand new naca5 for £80 less than the cost of phantoms and after a bit of run in my system sounds great again and definitely better than phantom. 

I wanted to give the wh interconnect a go but having returned their phantoms I don’t think I’ll bother.

272, 250-2dr & Proac d2

kassos posted:

Not sure if my experience adds much to what is ultimately a highly subjective debate but here goes. 

I swapped old secondhand naca5 for lovely sparkling new phantom cables with naim plugs. I found it hard to be sure of much difference but let the phantoms run in and then changed back and forth and decided that I preferred the naca5 ( with help from other more objective listeners). I returned the phantoms and got the promised refund after 28 days with no hassle albeit I’m not sure why I had to wait so long but wh did say it would take a while. I then replaced my tatty old naca5 with brand new naca5 for £80 less than the cost of phantoms and after a bit of run in my system sounds great again and definitely better than phantom. 

I wanted to give the wh interconnect a go but having returned their phantoms I don’t think I’ll bother.

272, 250-2dr & Proac d2

Kassos, did you order you witch hat speaker cable with the naim speaker plugs,i did not see a option for Phantom speaker with them cable only with audioquest plugs, the cheaper N2 cable had this option so not sure you got the two cables mixed up ,just a thought.

I am due to take delivery of Phantom and a Source Interconnect to replace Chord Epic and Shawline respectively this week.

I've been a Chord customer for over 12 years so I am intrigued to hear how the WH acts in my system which is 200/282/CDX2/LP12/Rega Aria.

I will leave them plugged in for a minimum 24 hours before taking my first listen and then report back so folks will at least have some form of comparison on WH v Chord. BTW, I preferred the Epic to the NACA4 I was using before, more prominent bass, vocals and midrange to my ears. 

Hi Keith I ordered Phantom cables 2x 5 m with naim plugs at the amp end and banana plugs at the speaker end. I have naca5 jumper leads on the proacs. I had to send them my naim plugs but there was no extra charge and when I returned them and got my refund I lost the naim plugs.

Jonners posted:

I am due to take delivery of Phantom and a Source Interconnect to replace Chord Epic and Shawline respectively this week.

I've been a Chord customer for over 12 years so I am intrigued to hear how the WH acts in my system which is 200/282/CDX2/LP12/Rega Aria.

I will leave them plugged in for a minimum 24 hours before taking my first listen and then report back so folks will at least have some form of comparison on WH v Chord. BTW, I preferred the Epic to the NACA4 I was using before, more prominent bass, vocals and midrange to my ears. 

As you’ll need to be playing music for that 24 hours, you won’t be able to avoid listening. 

hungryhalibut posted:
Jonners posted:

I am due to take delivery of Phantom and a Source Interconnect to replace Chord Epic and Shawline respectively this week.

I've been a Chord customer for over 12 years so I am intrigued to hear how the WH acts in my system which is 200/282/CDX2/LP12/Rega Aria.

I will leave them plugged in for a minimum 24 hours before taking my first listen and then report back so folks will at least have some form of comparison on WH v Chord. BTW, I preferred the Epic to the NACA4 I was using before, more prominent bass, vocals and midrange to my ears. 

As you’ll need to be playing music for that 24 hours, you won’t be able to avoid listening. 

Not a problem - I'm bingeing on "The Sinner" on NetFlix at the moment so I can go cold turkey if needbe ;-)

feeling_zen posted:

I'd still be interested in a comment from a knowledgeable person regarding my question early on in this thread about my doubts on the use of silver plated plugs.

Yes, interesting question great conductivity, but oxidises quickly, frequent reconnecting will eventually remove the plating? I wonder if Huge has done any experiments and detailed inspection under a microscope?

feeling_zen posted:

I'd still be interested in a comment from a knowledgeable person regarding my question early on in this thread about my doubts on the use of silver plated plugs.

I'm no expert on silver oxidation but found an interesting article on the Chord web site

Silver oxide is a thin film conductor and is also transparent, but silver sulphide isn't.

A very thin layer of silver oxide develops quickly, but then silver sulphide accumulates this is what can actually be seen as a film of coloured 'tarnish' on the metal and this coloured material is an insulator.

Huge posted:

Silver oxide is a thin film conductor and is also transparent, but silver sulphide isn't.

A very thin layer of silver oxide develops quickly, but then silver sulphide accumulates this is what can actually be seen as a film of coloured 'tarnish' on the metal and this coloured material is an insulator.

So it's basically fancy bollocks then and going back to good old nickel or rhodium is the way to go?

I've noticed there have been a number of posts in this threads with peoples opinion of WH vs other cables, which is great but a number of them only say they were better or they were worse vs xxxxx.  If you are going to post about your experiences with the WH cables, could you please post why they are better or why they are worse, as it would be much more helpful to others that are interested in these cables. 

daren_p posted:

I've noticed there have been a number of posts in this threads with peoples opinion of WH vs other cables, which is great but a number of them only say they were better or they were worse vs xxxxx.  If you are going to post about your experiences with the WH cables, could you please post why they are better or why they are worse, as it would be much more helpful to others that are interested in these cables. 

Fair enough.

I swapped out the standard DIN-XLR lead to my 250 with a WH cable and, to be specific, less dark and compressed sounding, with marginally better resolution in the top end of the frequency range. 

The cable was low cost. There were no audible downsides. I kept it.

With regard to the Phantom speaker cable, I do think some of the posts here have in fact described the benefit in more detail than others. 

Because there were a few posts about the use of silver-plated plugs on the WH cables and concerns over tarnishing, I sent a mail over to Audioquest whose products WH use and have received a reply from a technician stating that Silver Oxide is conductive and will not affect sound quality. However, they do supply cleaning cloths for additional peace of mind if needed.

feeling_zen posted:
daren_p posted:

I've noticed there have been a number of posts in this threads with peoples opinion of WH vs other cables, which is great but a number of them only say they were better or they were worse vs xxxxx.  If you are going to post about your experiences with the WH cables, could you please post why they are better or why they are worse, as it would be much more helpful to others that are interested in these cables. 

Fair enough.

I swapped out the standard DIN-XLR lead to my 250 with a WH cable and, to be specific, less dark and compressed sounding, with marginally better resolution in the top end of the frequency range. 

The cable was low cost. There were no audible downsides. I kept it.

With regard to the Phantom speaker cable, I do think some of the posts here have in fact described the benefit in more detail than others. 

I swapped two DIN-XLR between SNAXO & 250s. Conversely to F_Z, I found them darker, but much, much more detail, and frequency extension....... Actually, quite astonishingly so. Whatever WH do, it is better than 6 Amp mains cable!

I use the witch hat DIN to XLR between my 272 and 250DR with similar results to Suzy Wong great cable for the money. 

Back to the Phantom speaker cable and I'm really enjoying the tunes, listening tonight to Jonathan Wilson - Gentle Spirit, I know this album inside out and there's detail in the back ground I haven't heard before.

Overall the presentation is more dynamic, bags of detail and dare I say inky blackness plus a touch more bass and believe me when you own a pair of Proac Tab 10s you notice additional bass

 

Japtimscarlet posted:

Numbers seem to be favouring the witch hat cable ..

I can only report what works for me in the context of my system (and, of course, only those cables that we’re allowed to discuss) - CDX(XPS)-82(SC)-SNAXO(SC)-250s-Sibbles(NACA5).

Ultimately, only you can decide what works for you in your system.

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