UHES interesting day out to hear some distributed audio

No HDX?

Shame.

Nice write up ROTF. Again shame about the HDX not making an appearance - it would have been an interesting comparison in this company.

James

Which track from Aerial ROTF ? I'm genuinely interested since I use tracks from that album to compare my set ups !

( Good innit ?)

quote:

Originally posted by thesherrif:
Which track from Aerial ROTF ? I'm genuinely interested since I use tracks from that album to compare my set ups !

( Good innit ?)

Hi
'Twas Joanni and yes it is very good
ATB Rotf

Just back from the long trip.

Firstly, thanks to the team at UHES for an utterly superb day -- their facilities are second to none, their stock quite mind boggling, and their knowledge outstanding. The lunch was amazing too. It was long day -- I got there just after 9am, and the last of us left around 1.30am. Tired but happy. Extremely educational. Most excellent to meet ROTF for the first time, and to remake other acquaintances.

In essence, we had everything cd or cd-esque replay from both Naim and Linn as source, plus MacLavry and a few other oddities. Rest of system was 552 feeding the Adam active speakers. I had acquainted myself with the system on Thursday evening, because I dropped by en route to hotel to drop of one of my Supercap 2's for UHES to set up on the superline (more later).

First big session started at the bottom of the Naim CD hierarchy. CD5i (I think?) -- nice, bouncy, good value. CD5x -- better all round. Add flatcap -- not convinced -- "chrome plated" was how I described it. More hifi with same music, so not a real stepup for me.

The MacLavry -- some nice elements. Reasonable rhythm between bass and mid. Lacking detail all over. Splashy top. Slightly metallic, hard sound -- brash. Frankly, exactly what I expected from a 500 quid DAC. Nice, better than a plain laptop, but lets not get over excited. It simply doesnt deliver high-end performance. we tried multiple tracks, back and forth. Multiple settings. iTunes doing 96k/24-bit resampling was better - treble was cleaner, but really no cigar. True hi-def material was a clear step-up, but much detail missing, and no real sense of scale, muddy and limited compared to (much more expensive) proper devices -- this is not a criticism per se, its a cheap device. Lavry do a whole range of bigger and better devices.

Linn Sneaky -- what a lovely little thing. Not very sophisticated. Like a little puppy. Lots of scampering and panting, and reasonable tunes and music making. Nothing too detailed, but what it couldnt manage, it didnt screw up. Will be ordering one for my system.

Then superb lunch created by Ian's mother (who is also a wicked tea maker too.

Next session we did the mid range Naim cd players -- cdx2 with/without xps2 -- much as you would expect -- a much more serious cd sound. Plus the middle two linn units at 1700 quid and 3500 quid ish. Didnt like either of the Linn DS's -- pretentions of hifi grandeur but didnt deliver. Disappointing. More Lavry, I think -- nope, still stuck in its low-end groove.

Most excellent tea including home-made cake. Blame Ian's mother again!

Next session we went up to top Linn DS at 9 grand or so. Very nice, not as good as 555 but really not bad at all. And it was playing off NAS server. 555 was good, but I didnt like the upgrade to double PSU. More "chrome plating" -- more hifi, no more music. Not a solution I could recommend, I'm afraid.

Then we did top Linn DS at 9grand but on hidef music -- really stunning. Really really really really good. This is a whole new canvas for high-end audio -- finally, something mastertape-like in the home. Big breakthrough.

Then superb dinner down at the pub

Then back to listening room. Finally we did superline/supercap from naime'd linn (lp12, aro, armaged, XV1S) using the 453ohm chrome plug, the 453ohm Airplug Rev 1, and the 453ohm Airplug GT Rev 2. Huge difference noted by all between chrome and Rev 1. Smaller increment but still in positive direction to GT Rev 2.

A long day, but very well worth it.

The Adam Tensor speakers have many of the positive attributes of active DBLs. And are really most excellent -- I could swap my 6-pack 135s + DBLs and not feel let down. I think, even after 14 hours or more of listening to them, I still prefer the 6-135+DBLs. But given that I am even prepared to discuss in the same paragraph should indicate how good these Adams are.

Finally, a huge thanks to UHES. Dealers should do much more of this, but it is hard work if you dont have good dem rooms, all the stock, and the knowledge and wit to take on the task. UHES has all three in spades.

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:
No HDX?

Shame.

I heard a little rumour that the HDX developed a fault just before things kicked off, shame, but one of those things.

Gary

John

Thanks for the well written summary of things (and glad to see you still posting).

Several questions if you would be so kind:

Airplugs Rev. 1 and Rev. 2 - since there are now multiple revisions does this imply that Naim are actively pursuing development and eventual sales of these new plugs?

Your last two comments referring to the Linn DS against the 555 and then the Linn DS with hidef music - I am assuming that both units you are referring to are the same - the Klimax DS?

Finally - I have had a suspicion in the back of my mind that the Sneaky DS might be an alternative to the MacLavry option if one wants an inexpensive intro unit to test the waters. How much better was it than the Lavry? Do you care to expand further on this? Was their a significant difference between the Sneaky DS and the intro Majik DS (as I assume when you mentioned "the middle two Linn units" you were referring to the Majik and the Akurate)?

Thanks
Gregg

quote:

How much better was it than the Lavry?

Hi Gregg

I know the question wasn't directed at me, but here's my view FWIW. Jon's write-up is excellent and it was great to meet him and the other guys.

The Linn Sneaky wasn't better than the Lavry IMHO - both are viable ways to test the waters. To me the Sneaky is like a very good mini-system for the office because of its in-built amplifiers. However for less money I could get a Rega Apollo and Brio for my office, not as versatile, but - just a thought. I didn't think the Akurate DS justified a premium over the Majik DS, but I preferred the CD5i as a source to both of these.

ATB Rotf

ROTF & Gregg

Time to stick my head above the parapet. I have bought a Linn DS Accurate and have had it now for several weeks. I am sat listening to it right now and to me it simply blows away anything upto the CDS3. I find ROTF's comments above very surprising, but this Distributed Audio is very odd thing indeed. For some strange reason it seems to create polarised opnions like nothing else. We obviously all hear different things, but I am amazed that there is so little concensus. In other circumstances I would have just assumed the dealer hadn't set it up properly, but I bought mine from UHES and know that this is not the case here and also by coincidence I was actually with Norman and Ian yesterday and heard the very set up that ROTF was listening to on Friday.

Anyway, I'm delighted with my set up and ROTF is clearly delighted with his, so I suppose that's all that matters at the end of the day, it's just so strange that we clearly hear things so differently.

Gary

quote:

Originally posted by glevethan:

Airplugs Rev. 1 and Rev. 2 - since there are now multiple revisions does this imply that Naim are actively pursuing development and eventual sales of these new plugs?

To be crystal clear so there is no possibility of confusion (and repeating what I have said elswhere. The airplug work for superline loading is not a factory thing at all, its the work of Dr Peter @ cymbiosis and myself. It has factory tacit, interested approval especially that of Mr Sells, chief designer, and I have played them to Gods@Naim who were interested. Hopefully they are looking at this themsevles now to assess its viability.

quote:

Originally posted by glevethan:
Your last two comments referring to the Linn DS against the 555 and then the Linn DS with hidef music - I am assuming that both units you are referring to are the same - the Klimax DS?

Yes, the top linn -- 9 grand? I wasnt struck by either of the two mid range linn items.

quote:

Originally posted by glevethan:
Finally - I have had a suspicion in the back of my mind that the Sneaky DS might be an alternative to the MacLavry option if one wants an inexpensive intro unit to test the waters. How much better was it than the Lavry? Do you care to expand further on this? Was their a significant difference between the Sneaky DS and the intro Majik DS (as I assume when you mentioned "the middle two Linn units" you were referring to the Majik and the Akurate)?

Thanks
Gregg

more a case of "different to lavry" I think it was a more "honest" and simplistic sound, but others might disagree. The lavry appeals to those who want to interact via a laptop. The Sneaky appeals to those who dont. Somewhat chalk and cheese, I'm afraid.

Yes there was difference between the sneaky and majik -- sneaky was fun, uncomplicated, very listenable to. Majik was more hifi but not really more music.

jon

Where the HDX clearly has an advantage is in its rip engine, i.e. you know what you are getting. Where a lavry, ds or other are concerned is in how the user got his cds onto the harddrive.

Now this would appear to involve PCStocktons 168 bullet point 'easy import' file in order to ensure the user is getting the right rip, or leave it to products that take that worry away.

Certainly I feel that linn took a risk by saying 'we are not getting involved in the source' which is what a sneaky and accurate are.

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:

Certainly I feel that linn took a risk by saying 'we are not getting involved in the source' which is what a sneaky and accurate are.

whilst I understand what you mean in terms of CD ripping, claiming that linn isnt involved in the source is a bit daft when they have made lots of their record label masters available for purchase and download in straight-from-mastertape hidef formats!

What was the Linn user interface like ? - from what i've seen so far the players are good, the interface poor. In comparison iTunes controlled via a touch/iPhone is very elegant.

Jon, I think it fair to say linn recordings like naim recordings are for a certain type of person. I am not that person.

James the interface of the linn looks a bit early 90s



Though to be fair the interfaces on phones etc seems to be a bit better

quote:

Originally posted by james n:
What was the Linn user interface like ? - from what i've seen so far the players are good, the interface poor. In comparison iTunes controlled via a touch/iPhone is very elegant.

I control my Linn using a Nokia 810 media tablet and I have turned the IR option off, otherwise the TV and Sky remotes keep turning the music on. The Linn software isn't perfect, but it's OK once you get used to it, in fact there is so much more you can do than with a CD player, such as playlists etc.

It's a completely different approach than putting a CD in the drawer and pressing play, it's just so much more flexible having your whole music collection available almost instantly.

Gary

quote:

Originally posted by garyi:
Where the HDX clearly has an advantage is in its rip engine, i.e. you know what you are getting. Where a lavry, ds or other are concerned is in how the user got his cds onto the harddrive.

Now this would appear to involve PCStocktons 168 bullet point 'easy import' file in order to ensure the user is getting the right rip, or leave it to products that take that worry away.

Certainly I feel that linn took a risk by saying 'we are not getting involved in the source' which is what a sneaky and accurate are.

Gary

Whilst I suppose technically you are right, you are making a bit of a mountain out of a molehill. Ripping is dead easy and once you have found something that suits you, the results are going to be consistent. I hate EAC, it's so awkward and cumbersome to use, but even so, PCstockton's link only needs to be done once, then you save it as a profile and of you go for the next 1000 CDs. Personally I use DBPowerAmp which is far easier to use and a doddle to get all your artwork etc.

Gary

Gary, there is no need explain to me, I am not a novice at this by any means.

However many people are novices, and the consequences are going to be variable quality. And by that I mean importing 128k mp3 not knowing any better for instance. Hopefully linn have pitched the price right to allow for the awful interface and to offset complaints from audiophiles who may not really be into the 'computer' thing.

They do still exist believe it or not.

Thats the only comparison I can draw with the HDX or NAS01/02 etc is that these devices take away that uncertainty, albeit for modest music libraries.

Gary

No offence intended, I am aware you know a thing or two about this, but until three or four weeks ago, I was by my own admission a complete novice. However my dealer took me right through the process and like everything else, once you know the basics, you can generally work out the rest.

I accept there are dangers, but a good dealer should always steer the purchaser in the right direction. It's not like you can buy one of these in Currys.

Gary

quote:

claiming that linn isnt involved in the source is a bit daft when they have made lots of their record label masters available for purchase and download in straight-from-mastertape hidef formats!

That's a bit like inferring that pressing quality is not important when it comes to vinyl records, just as long as Linn offers good-quality pressings of their own. (It assumes that you could survive on a limited-genre diet of music, really.)

In the case of 88.2/24, there is likely no mastertape as such–any decision to mix or master at 176.4 or 88.2 is made with decimation to Compact Disc at 44.1/16 clearly in mind. Digitally-recorded releases have a built-in ceiling that precludes any sonic benefits above their native file resolution, i.e., there's no real value, IMHO, of 96/24 releases of sessions using 48/24 digital multitracks, for example.

Also–and I'm still amazed that people continue to do this–any equivalent digital playback systems can be comparatively judged on their merits as regards playback of baseline file formats. Put simply–any high-res capable digital playback device ought to be able to offer at least as much or more musical satisfaction at 44.1/16 as an equivalent CD player. This applies as much to hard-disk playback as it did to DVD-A and SACD over a decade ago.

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:

Also–and I'm still amazed that people continue to do this–any equivalent digital playback systems can be comparatively judged on their merits as regards playback of baseline file formats. Put simply–any high-res capable digital playback device ought to be able to offer at least as much or more musical satisfaction at 44.1/16 as an equivalent CD player. This applies as much to hard-disk playback as it did to DVD-A and SACD over a decade ago.

EXACTLY - for me this would be the ONLY reason to eventually consider moving away from a traditional CD player. If a HD or DAC based system cannot perform at least as well as my current CD player using 44.1/16 (in my case CDS3/555PS) then I will remain with silver discs. The only impetus for me to consider these alternative systems would be to take advantage of their ease of playback - realizing there will be a compromise made in terms of absolute performance.

Furthermore I still do not believe that the record labels will be releasing hires files of "current commercially viable" music any time soon. It has taken them this long to embrace downloadable MP3's and they are finally just starting to remove DRM. I just don't see them releasing hires masters any time soon - if ever.

And - who would these hires downloads appeal to other than audiophiles. Current sales trends seem to indicate that Joe Q Public is perfectly content with compressed 128/192 MP3's. If you told them that their 8gig iPod could now hold only 120 hires tracks instead of the current 1600 MP3's I do not think that they would make the tradeoff.

Gregg

gary / garyi could you point me to pcstocktons link pleas

quote:

Originally posted by neil w:
gary / garyi could you point me to pcstocktons link pleas

Neil

http://forums.naim-audio.com/eve/forums/a/tpc/f/8772903...682923617#2682923617

This is a bit ball-aching, but stick with it, it does produce a very high quality rip.

There are easier and quicker ripping programmes than EAC, but as I say it does the job well.

Regards

Gary

ta

Gary,

Thanks for posting the link to the EAC set up info.

It does make a difference over the default settings I've re-ripped a few CDs and they sound a lot closer to my CD555!!!

Cheers
Graham

Graham

What is your set-up on the streaming side? Apologies if you mentioned this before, but couldn't find it & not in your profile.

Guessing you are using a PC given the use of EAC?

Regards

Richard