PMC Twenty5.23: Impressions and a few Questions

Posted by: Timo on 16 January 2017

I am currently having PMC's Twenty5.23 at home -- to possibly replace my Neat SX1. The speakers are driven by my humble XS2 and I have an ND5XS as source. About the PMC I like in particular the greater transparency as compared to the SX1. This is especially noticeable when listening to complex, orchestral music -- lovely. However, this transparaceny seems to come at a price. There appears to be a trade-off between transparency and body. My wife in particular feels that the PMCs  don't quite have the depth of the Neats and described the PMC sound as "light". I sort of seeing where she is coming from, though I am still somewhat seduced by the PMC's clarity. We don't have good hifi vocabulary -- I hope this makes sense.

Here, I now wonder whether the problem of depth and body is actually a problem of amplification. Is the XS2 indeed too humble to drive the Twenty.23 properly? I remember that, in a different thread, the XS2 was described as the minimum for the Twenty5.23. Would it require a Supernait 2 to get a fuller sound? Or am I am looking for a solution in the wrong direction? It is my observation that others here drive the Twenty5.23 with even more powerful systems. Am I at risk of getting "over-speakered"?

Also, when near the tweeter and on mute, I can hear a hissing sound. Is this an amplification problem as well? The Neat speakers are basically silent -- no hissing whatsoever.

The wisdom of the Forum would be most appreciated -- many thanks!

Posted on: 16 January 2017 by Mayor West

Hi Timo. 

Unfortunately I don't have experience with any of your equipment so I'm not sure how useful my comments will be. However I can say that I had PMC 20.23's with a Nait XS1/Flatcap XS at one point. I did love the Nait XS1 and it never really struggled, but I just didn't feel it had the control to really take the PMC's by the scruff. They just felt a bit thin, wooly and underpowered. I subsequently tried a SN2 and felt that this really brought them to life. They feel very much full bodied and sound much bigger than they look with SN2. Other people may have had different experiences. Whether the same applies to the 25.23's I'm not sure. 

I have heard a Nait XS1 on PMC 20.21's however and felt that this was a fantastic sounding combination. 

Posted on: 16 January 2017 by feeling_zen

I went from 20.23 to 25.23 and if anything found the low end on the latter requiring very different positioning to tame and get the right balance.

They just deliver so much more oomph over the older 20.23. What your experience does show is how subjective these things are. I had a friend who auditioned my old 20.23s and hated them because he felt they had way too much bass whereas I felt they were nicely balanced erring on the side of a slightly ephemeral presentation. 

It 'could' be your amplification and source. The 25.23 are much (MUCH) less forgiving than their predevessor and I think need more. More what, I couldn't say since power-wise the XS2 has buckets. It could also be your preference in speaker voicing. You might find the following thread useful. Just ignore the depressing story about the insurance company and pick out the comments on how they sound with my equipment.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...pgrade-to-twenty5-23

Posted on: 16 January 2017 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hi Timo, my experience with the 25.21 suggested the tweeter was the weak point in the speaker.. compared to what I am used to I found the tweeter a little brittle and coarse, most off putting with choral music.. I listened on a variety of systems including my own and a Statement system.

It might be you are hearing this *slight* coarseness, that I noticed, and your/your wife's brain is translating that into a brighter sound?

Simon

Posted on: 17 January 2017 by Got Hi-Fi?
Timo posted:

Also, when near the tweeter and on mute, I can hear a hissing sound. Is this an amplification problem as well? The Neat speakers are basically silent -- no hissing whatsoever.

The wisdom of the Forum would be most appreciated -- many thanks!

I too have this issue with my combination of NAP200DR and ELAC. I can hear the hissing from both drivers, even on mute, and from the listening position. I have been told by many that it is quite normal. 

Posted on: 17 January 2017 by feeling_zen

Indeed it is normal. It is due to the base noise on the channel circuit, the type of drive unit and its sesnsitivity.

 

Posted on: 17 January 2017 by Timo

Many thanks for the responses!

It is certainly comforting to learn that hissing sound is considered normal, and in our case one can only hear it close to the tweeter. Puuh...

Over the next few days we will test the speakers with a broader range of music, including choral music (which we certainly enjoy very much). Tonight, unfortunately, we can only do low-volume listening, as the neighbours are in. B**** The downside of living in a semi-detached, and to make it worse ours doesn't have good sound insulation... 

And I will certainly try to experiment with positioning, though I don't have many options considering the layout of our lounge. And the wife's piano is unfortunately untouchable. Yesterday, I suggested (only half in joke) to move the piano. The wife suggested that I was "out of my mind". I sensed a certain hostility... ;-)

Thanks again for sharing your thoughts and knowledge with me!!