Trading in a CD5i and moving to a ND5 XS

From reading through several threads and from the suggestions above I have ordered a Synology NAS server and a Cisco switch. I also have a older Apple iPad. Still need to pick up some cables and choose a server app for the NAS and I'm sure there is a bunch of other things still left to do. It is all coming together......slowly.

Enjoy! I have Synology NASes, and I just use the default Media Server. It might be worth starting with that, I can't hear any sound quality difference between it and alternatives. It gives a reasonable amount of configurability, and if you decide you need more, then all the music files stay the some, you just need to try a new app, so no need to change anything else. 

Yes,  hope you & your Synology live happily ever after.      What Synology model & what HDD make did you go for.     Synology DSM has a lot of stuff included in the Package Centre that you don't need for audio & if it not needed best leave it uninstalled in the Package Centre & minimize CPU load.    AS mine is music only I have only Media Server & Hyper Backup installed,  File Station & Universal Search are mandatory & automatically installed.         I suggest you get used to all the DSM details in your own time & come back with your questions.

Mike-B posted:

Yes,  hope you & your Synology live happily ever after.      What model number & HDD make did you go for.     The Synology has a lot of stuff in the package that you don't need for audio & if it not needed best leave it uninstalled in the Package Centre & minimize CPU load.    I have just Media Server & Hyper Backup installed,  File Station & Universal Search are mandatory & automatically installed.         I suggest you get used to all the DSM details in your own time & come back with your questions.

Synology DS716+II with 8TB Storage & 2GB Ram. The HDD are WD 2 x 4 TB Red 5400 rmp SATA III 3.5" 

......and thank you for the suggestions on just starting out with Media Server and Hyper Backup Installed.

DS716+II is a great NAS,  way OTT for just music,  but hey what the hell.    Ditto WD Red's

I found HyperBackup was far too CPU-heavy on my little 115j and 216js, so I just alternate regular file transfers to  a pair of 4TB USB drives, I suspect your 716 will be unstressed by the load, so leave it installed. (I started using the NAS as a backup of my HDX, so just bought a 115j, on that it was 4 days in to a predicted 6 day backup of 1.2TB of files when the NAS locked up, I ended up power cycling it, and gave up on HyperBackup from the low-end NASes.) I'm sure that if I'd made it to the end of the backup incremental a would have worked, and that a bigger processor box like your 716 would have cruised it.

I suppose the message here is work out your backup regime.

Hyper backup need not be used 'full fat' as Synology intend.  I have mine installed & just use it for a manual (run when I say so) backup.  CPU is running around 1% or 2% when on idle & it goes to about 30% to 50% during backup.   My DS214 has a Dual Core CPU & 512MB DDR3 RAM.   

Interesting Mike. I started from a possibly unusual position, the NAS was a backup for a HDX, so I had over 1Tb before I tried to back the NAS up. Because it was so inefficient when I first tried it (I was possibly unlucky having got my NAS when HyoerBackup was still a fairly new piece of code), I realised that as I was already planning to rotate 2 offsite backups on external drives, a straight file copy would take 7-8 hours which when you work from home isn't an issue, so I didn't need BU software.

I can't comment Eoink,  I have little experience with the Naim servers (HDX & US) other than what I read on the forum & working on a friends US, what I do know is its not so straightforward.     I changed my backup setup to a remote/mobile USB drive that I connect about once a month,  it took about 90 minutes for the first install of about 1TB,  subsequent incremental backups take about 5 minutes depending on how many new albums are loaded. 

My experience of HyperBackup is the same as Mike's and that's on a slow single core Synology NAS.

stuart posted:

I have a suggestion/question. Rather than retain or buy a cd player in case of network failure could you store maybe 50 of your favourite cds onto USB sticks and plug them into nd5 and play direct from them. Would this negate the need for a network if there were temporary problems? 

Rather than pfaffing about with USB sticky memory, take an optical lead from your DVD (or Blue Ray as appropriate) player to the ND5 XS and use that to play the occasional CD if / when required (it works - this is what I do).

seakayaker posted:

If anyone has started out or currently using a similar system configuration that I am moving to and has any comment or advice it would appreciated.  Also, any advice on NAS devises, streaming services, connectivity cables, software needed or anything else would be appreciated.  (note: I have spent time reading through several of the threads and gained some insight but at times am a bit overwhelmed by all the information and attempting to sort all out.)

My experiences in case they help, as I started my streaming with ND5XS.

With the ND5XS I used a cheap NAS (Zyxel NSA325). Found I didn't like the Zyxel's default Twonky UPnP server software, installed Logitech media server (free) instead. Networked with local switch (a cheap one - TPLink I think) linking the NAS and ND5 together and to house network. All worked well, and sounded good, on a par with the Shearne Audio CD player it replaced. Even had no trouble at all seeing all my ripped vinyl  with very rudimentary metadata  stored in simple nested file structure (genre\artist or composer\album). The one problem was that the NAS was noisy, and was in the listening room to minimise any risk of adverse network effects, however not normally audible while music was playing, though by a year or two later it had become louder and could be heard during quiet passages.

After a while I was persuaded to buy an XP5XS power supply which I was assured would bring significant improvement in sound quality. It didn't - the difference was very subtle, and I felt not worth the expense. I changed it for an external DAC, the Chord Hugo, on the strength of others' claims about it - and the improvement was much more marked, so that stayed. 

The noisy NAS was getting irritating, and I planned to change for a silent one, however at that time I had been reading much about Audirvana on Mac Mini. I decided to set up a MAC mini as my silent NAS, on which I could then assess Audirvana, so I did. Firstly with Serviio (free) UPnP player and using the ND5XS/Hugo, and it worked perfectly, and as near silent as makes no difference (even in a silent room the MM's fan was inaudible more than about 2 feet away, and I used SSDs). MM was headless (no monitor or keyboard).

I then tried Audirvana, and a USB isolator/converter (Gustard U12) to remove RF from the computer, and it sounded better so replaced the ND5XS. I then had a combined store/renderer feeding a separate DAC, with stored music not having to use the network at all. And I believe such an approach is very good, not least because it is immune to the problems sone people seem to have with networks, and the fretting others have over which network cables, switches and switch power supplies sound best...  

However, Audirvana's library function struggles with some metadata making browsing irritating at times (but I persevere because of the sound quality), and the store/renderer that I use is a bit DIY in setting up: There are turnkey options for stire/renderers available including Naim's Uniti Core (which can also rip CDs), Melco and Innuos Zenith. And if I was considering a DIY approach from scratch now I'd seek out info on the microRendu as renderer (some discussions on this forum) before making a decision.

N.B. I do not use online streaming services like Tidal, though if they are of interest I would observe that Audirvana integrates Quobuz and  Tidal (latter including MQA).

Huge posted:

stuart posted:

I have a suggestion/question. Rather than retain or buy a cd player in case of network failure could you store maybe 50 of your favourite cds onto USB sticks and plug them into nd5 and play direct from them. Would this negate the need for a network if there were temporary problems? 

Rather than pfaffing about with USB sticky memory, take an optical lead from your DVD (or Blue Ray as appropriate) player to the ND5 XS and use that to play the occasional CD if / when required (it works - this is what I do).

Presuming the OP has a dvd player in the same room. Mine is in a different room so wouldn't want to move it and hook it up on a regular basis. My point and question was that if there was a temporary nas or network failure direct playback would be possible using USB drive controlled directly from the ND5. This might be useful if like me the OP is just starting out with streaming and runs into the odd glitch.  It does however sound like he knows what he is doing :-) 

I would have thought a NAS / Network failure is going to take your system out for a few hours at most, allowing the issue to be fixed, new hardware sought etc so unless it's a matter of life of death to have constant access to music, i'd get the basic sorted and then consider the what if's later.

At this stage, making sure you have a good backup strategy for your music library is key as re-ripping is not something you really want to do.

Huge posted:

stuart posted:

I have a suggestion/question. Rather than retain or buy a cd player in case of network failure could you store maybe 50 of your favourite cds onto USB sticks and plug them into nd5 and play direct from them. Would this negate the need for a network if there were temporary problems? 

Rather than pfaffing about with USB sticky memory, take an optical lead from your DVD (or Blue Ray as appropriate) player to the ND5 XS and use that to play the occasional CD if / when required (it works - this is what I do).

Agree. I run an Oppo 105 into my NDS via a Naim coax cable and very good it sounds too. It's also not half bad on streaming duties via a phono to DIN connection.

If you like evangelism for the MacMini and Audirvana, listen to Innocent Bystander.

If you like evangelism for the NAC-N272, listen to Hungry Halibut.

(Actually they both have valid viewpoints.)

Huge posted:

If you like evangelism for the MacMini and Audirvana, listen to Innocent Bystander.

If you like evangelism for the NAC-N272, listen to Hungry Halibut.

(Actually they both have valid viewpoints.)

I hear my name used in vain...

I think my post mentioning Audirvana falls a bit short of evangelism...  and clearly I didn't heap enough praise on Hugo, or even mention Dave! I must try harder.

Huge posted:

If you like evangelism for the MacMini and Audirvana, listen to Innocent Bystander.

If you like evangelism for the NAC-N272, listen to Hungry Halibut.

(Actually they both have valid viewpoints.)

 No thanks, I'm sticking with my NDX.....!

just a thought - if you are only going to use the CD source occasionally then you could consider getting a bluray player as a transport. I had a cheap, very compact LG player feeding the DAC in my SuperUniti for those duties. It sounded pretty good - didn't suffer in comparison to the CD3.5/HC I had been using. I presume the DAC in the SU is significantly better. It really shouldn't be too surprising - a bluray player has to accurately drag a lot more data off a disk than a CD player.

In the end I took it out but only because I found ripping, Tidal and vinyl was more than enough. If I want to play a CD I haven't ripped I just play from Tidal. 

As it only takes literally just a few minutes to rip a CD, if I want to play a CD I just rip it (on a computer), then copy to the music store -  and play or do something else for those few minutes. So, indeed, no CD player needed (nor Tidal unless it gives something beneficial to you).

I have had an ND5 for a couple of years now and  despite some negative comments on this forum have always found it to be an excellent player.  A couple of months ago added a Chord 2Qute  and this enhanced an already great Streamer you will enjoy it.

I wouldn't pay too much heed to the forum - if you like it that's what counts most. When it comes to choosing equipment I tend to trust my own instincts perhaps with a few pinches of dealer suggestions. I happen to love my 252/Supercap but a number here obviously see it as their mission in life to slate it - such is life

Just wanted to update this thread.

I picked up the ND5 last evening on the way home from work. Spent a few hours with it last night and several hours today. I would not consider it plug and play for the networking novice (imho). I never got the Cisco switch that I bought to work (I am sure it would work for someone who knew what to do). So I have the ND5 XS, the Synology NAS and a IMAC Desktop with a CD player to rip CD's (using dBpoweramp CD Ripper software) with each having a single network cable connected to the router. This meant I did not plan well enough and headed out to the store to purchase some additional cable. One other nice surprise was the iPad I had was too old and did not support the Naim app, another trip out to the Apple store. A friend dropped by and helped with the networking piece. Then there were a couple of calls to the dealer, John & Matthew @ Hawthorne Stereo, were most helpful in keeping me moving forward. So slowly but surely the Internet Radio came to life and after ripping a few CD's began playing them through UPnP, then signed up for the free trial to Tidal and played some music through Tidal.  So a new black box streaming music to the NAIT XS 2 and a pair of NAC A5 speaker cables between the NAIT XS 2 and the ProAc D2's. 

At the end of the day I wouldn't say the sound of the music is any better or any worse. I'm tired and just very happy that it is up and running. So it will be nice to be ripping CD's for the foreseeable future and listening to music while the ND5 and cables burn in. 

Thanks to everyone who posted suggestions, advice, opinions, comments and stories, it did help.

seakayaker posted:

 One other nice surprise was the iPad I had was too old and did not support the Naim app, another trip out to the Apple store.

Your iPad must have been fairly old? You need to run iOS 9.3 or later for the Naim app, are you sure you didn't just need to update the iPad OS?

ChrisSU posted:

seakayaker posted:

 One other nice surprise was the iPad I had was too old and did not support the Naim app, another trip out to the Apple store.

Your iPad must have been fairly old? You need to run iOS 9.3 or later for the Naim app, are you sure you didn't just need to update the iPad OS?

Some of iPads- for example: mini version 1 -are not upgradable any more.