Tour De France 2018

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I have no doubt that if Thomas is still in yellow in the third week he'll be sacrificed for Froome's benefit. I am not hearing or seeing anything to suggest otherwise. 

Bruce, (or any one else) any substantial information to think this will be the case? Do you suppose there's a gentleman's agreement within the team? Race courtesy? Possibly even written into G's contract?

If so, this is where I depart from so-called 'standards'. It's a race after all and I want to see the best rider win. I acknowledge the team has to work together, but Sky (at this point, much racing to come) seems strong enough to allow G and Froome to duke it out if positioned to do so near the end. I'd just hate to see G hand the race to Froome if he's capable of beating him 

I still find it a pity to see how strong the Sky dam is overall, as it makes it quite impossible for others to have a chance in the overall race....

Bert Schurink posted:

I still find it a pity to see how strong the Sky dam is overall, as it makes it quite impossible for others to have a chance in the overall race....

There’s nothing to prevent the other teams from challenging Team Sky’s dominance. Budget maybe? But that’s the same in any sport. The premiership football teams attract more funding than those in the lower divisions, but if you were a sponsor, wouldn’t you want to invest in the best?

As for G vs. Froome, I too would like to see them battle it out, but as Joe says, there’s plenty more racing yet to come and G’s record in the grand tours suggests he usually has on ‘off’ day.

Whatever, it’s still an exciting race to watch. 

Mother Nature is still a potential leveling factor. A rain storm or two, a top contender with minus time taking risks. You never know who might end up on the pavement. Just don't want to see G pedaling back to Froome to hand him the yellow. Then again, maybe G has expended vast fuel to this point? My hope is that the overall results are genuine and not contrived within Sky's expectations. Many stages to go. Pyrenees ahead.  We will see.

joerand posted:

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I have no doubt that if Thomas is still in yellow in the third week he'll be sacrificed for Froome's benefit. I am not hearing or seeing anything to suggest otherwise. 

Bruce, (or any one else) any substantial information to think this will be the case? Do you suppose there's a gentleman's agreement within the team? Race courtesy? Possibly even written into G's contract?

If so, this is where I depart from so-called 'standards'. It's a race after all and I want to see the best rider win. I acknowledge the team has to work together, but Sky (at this point, much racing to come) seems strong enough to allow G and Froome to duke it out if positioned to do so near the end. I'd just hate to see G hand the race to Froome if he's capable of beating him 

Well the principles of team leadership in cycle races are well known and constantly repeated by G and Froome every time they are interviewed this week.  Lets face it the strongest rider may not always win if the team judges that one must protect and be 'sacrificed' for a chosen leader and I find it hard to believe that unless Froome starts to waver or get ill they will take the team leadership away from him. There is of course the example of Wiggins, where many think Froome was held back because it had been decided by Sky it was Wiggins Tour. Nobody could doubt that G deserves success, but in Sky's eyes does he deserve it more than Froome going for 5 wins, holding Giro and Vuelta too?

It is a team as well as an individual sport. One of the fascinations of the event for me.

I don't think they will consciously have to hold G back. He has less TT ability and will likely lose time on that stage, also less pedigree over 3 week tours so he may run out of gas whereas Froome generally gets stronger in the last week. If all the climbing domestiques remain in place then both can be protected most of the way through the tough stages; what may be interesting is if they drop team mates off earlier in climbs then we will see who leads and who is being protected at the front.

I think the situation is analagous to a stage where you lob a good rider up the road in the breakaway. If the break stays away they are in a great position or they slowly get reeled in and provide cover and help to the main rider in the peloton as they come up behind.

What seems a shame to me is that other teams know how Sky will ride and yet seem reluctant to either mimic or challenge it. Just lack of depth in recruitment? It almost seems that other big hitters are settling for maybe a podium or just stage wins. Do they believe they can actually beat Sky?

Bruce

Froome is team leader - his palmares puts Thomas in the shade. Thomas knows that he will be riding for Froome in week 3. Sky will win the race - they have too much depth not to.

General Classification after Stage 12

Friday 20th July - Stage 13

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

I think the situation is analagous to a stage where you lob a good rider up the road in the breakaway. If the break stays away they are in a great position or they slowly get reeled in and provide cover and help to the main rider in the peloton as they come up behind.

 

For some years now, Team Sky [and others] have been using power meter technologies which provide critically useful telemetry, and when combined with modern communication between team members and support vehicles, the team know relatively the most efficient output [and speed] they need to use, not only to catch the breakaway before the end of the race stage but to retain strength enough in the team leader(s) to pass and contest the stage win. Power meter telemetry if used properly can relatively and fairly instantly prevent unnecessary wastage of energy, prevent over exertion, and this will also help aid a more full recovery from one day to next.

It does seem that Team Sky riders work together with diligence, and frequently let a breakaway go, presumably knowing they will have a good odds chance of catching and passing 'burnt out breakaway riders' within a few kilometres to go, and this often seems to play out regardless if flat, hilly or mountainous stages.

The UCI could ban the use of power meters to level the playing field, but all teams have the option of using this technology so it is already fair in that respect.

Debs

Fabio 1 posted:

Ciao Vincenzo.

The Italian was transported to a hospital in Grenoble for further scans after X-rays taken after the finish of the stage were inconclusive but his team suspected a fractured vertebra because of the pain he was experiencing. Doctors later confirmed that Nibali had fractured his T10 vertebra.

That's a great pity, i always enjoy watching Nibali's totally smooth and efficient riding style,  and so unlike Froomey's : D

A daft way to get taken out, bad marshalling and non existent policing of unruly fans : (

Debs

Up late last night watching Stage 12 which I had taped and it was tremendous! Two incredibly tough and fantastic stages over the past couple of days and really enjoying this year's race. Although it is traditional to allow the fans to be close to the race action, I do not know how the riders endure the gauntlet on the climb of Alpe d'Huez. The flairs in particular seemed harsh for the riders to have to breath in the smoke when their bodies are screaming for oxygen. And for a person that has rode for hours and be in contention at the end to be knocked down by a fan has to heartbreaking for the rider. It is traditional but to have an outcome directly impacted by fan behavior crosses a line that needs to be addressed. (JMHO)......

Skye is looking invincible over the past couple of days, a lot of discipline and carrying out their plan to perfection. The 'G' man is looking to be impossible to hold back and invincible! 

I am looking forward to watching Stage 13 later today!

naim_nymph posted:

The UCI could ban the use of power meters to level the playing field, but all teams have the option of using this technology so it is already fair in that respect.

Debs

The UCI tried to level the field by reducing team sizes from nine to eight this year. Whilst I don't, as yet at least, see the need to ban power meters, I still maintain that the best way to invigorate the grand tours would be to ban race radios. That way the only way teams could work out how far ahead the breakaway was would be through the information presented on the motorcycle boards.

Why not ban motorcycle boards too? In fact why not limit upper speeds? Let’s really level the field! Or we could just leave it all alone ...

naim_nymph posted:

Fabio 1 posted:

Ciao Vincenzo.

The Italian was transported to a hospital in Grenoble for further scans after X-rays taken after the finish of the stage were inconclusive but his team suspected a fractured vertebra because of the pain he was experiencing. Doctors later confirmed that Nibali had fractured his T10 vertebra.

 

That's a great pity, i always enjoy watching Nibali's totally smooth and efficient riding style,  and so unlike Froomey's : D

A daft way to get taken out, bad marshalling and non existent policing of unruly fans : (

Debs

Froome’s riding style is outstanding.

ynwa250505 posted:

Why not ban motorcycle boards too? In fact why not limit upper speeds? 

Highly rhetorical and makes little constructive sense with regard to the use of advanced technology permitted during the race.

ynwa250505 posted:

Froome is team leader - his palmares puts Thomas in the shade. 

I really don't see where Froome's palmares, or G's for that matter, should have any consequence on the outcome of the race I'm currently watching. Is this a true contest or a spectacle of propriety? Where else would you see riders drink champagne then "race" for the finale as if the winner was not predetermined? 

Clive B posted:

naim_nymph posted:

The UCI could ban the use of power meters to level the playing field, but all teams have the option of using this technology so it is already fair in that respect.

Debs

The UCI tried to level the field by reducing team sizes from nine to eight this year. Whilst I don't, as yet at least, see the need to ban power meters, I still maintain that the best way to invigorate the grand tours would be to ban race radios. That way the only way teams could work out how far ahead the breakaway was would be through the information presented on the motorcycle boards.

Not sure I'd be confident that motorcycle boards can be used entirely safely nowadays. The TV bikes seems to be pretty scary!

In principle I do like the idea of a more spontaneous structure to racing. What about ensuring only one rider per team has the radio? If they lose touch with that individual it will throw things up in the air a bit. You'd have to chose if you wanted that rider in the break or not etc. Just a thought.

As for Joe's comments I think the palmares of Froome vs G does matter. Which one would you invest in as most likely to deliver over 3 weeks? 

Bruce

Saturday 21st July 

Stage 14 

Lots of scope for sneaky attacks and have a go puncheur tactics today, could be an interesting scrappy race : )

Debs

.......enjoyed Peter Sagan's sprint finish yesterday, the man is uncanny with his ability and timing! He also is great in the interviews, quite a personality. Looking forward to today's stage.......

Peter Sagan is on fire at the moment.He just looks so hungry for Green Jersey points always putting effort into breakaways he's in.Wow what a Tour already.The Green Jersey....3 Stage wins....3 World Champions Jerseys....6 Times Slovakian National Road Race Champion.Always humble in defeat a showman but in a funny way.He's never arrogant.He just gives 100 % on the bike.

Tabby cat posted:

Peter Sagan is on fire at the moment.He just looks so hungry for Green Jersey points always putting effort into breakaways he's in.Wow what a Tour already.The Green Jersey....3 Stage wins....3 World Champions Jerseys....6 Times Slovakian National Road Race Champion.Always humble in defeat a showman but in a funny way.He's never arrogant.He just gives 100 % on the bike.

Not really a stage for him today (you would think). But instead of taking it easy, he toughs it out on the climbs to stay with the break, and then gives 100% in the finale (which featured 3km at greater than 10% - hardly the place for a "sprinter") for 4th place. He really is a bike racer. Never just phones it in.

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

As for Joe's comments I think the palmares of Froome vs G does matter. Which one would you invest in as most likely to deliver over 3 weeks? 

The one that currently has the best legs of course, regardless of the size of their trophy case. For me it's all about the here-and-now, and not history (maybe an American ideology). I acknowledge that Froome is safely biding his time behind to assert himself in the Pyrenees. I guess part of me wishes G and F were on different teams so we could see a real race between the two best contenders. Then again, I suppose G signed-up to be F's bitch and prescripts need be conceded.

As a highly competitive individual in sport, I have to wonder how G could relegate if he feels he's capable of more. OTOH, maybe G is riding out his legs to position Froome and will fade from the podium? 

joerand posted:

 

As a highly competitive individual in sport, I have to wonder how G could relegate if he feels he's capable of more. OTOH, maybe G is riding out his legs to position Froome and will fade from the podium? 

Froomey is rated as being more suited to riding up steeper Pyrenees gradients compared to G who is rated being better in the Alps. Froomey has often shown to excel on the last week of a grand tour. Froomey is very fast in time trials. This means Froomey remains the favourite to win this yeas tour. I expect Froomey, G, + Team Sky are happily  keeping an open mind, it's clearly an advantage to keep some pressure off Froomey with G in yellow for time being.

As much as i'd dearly love to see the first Welshman win the TdF this year, i won't be surprised if Froomey pulls some magnificent performances out of the bag next week, and goes on the win his 5th : /

Debs

Saturday  21st July - Stage 14 finish results:

Must admit an impressive result for Sagan, incredible how he can climb with his build and body weigh, ...he could bend iron bars with that muscle around his shoulders and arms : /

Overall an exciting stage, about time we had breakaway evade the capture of the mighty Team Sky : )

Debs

Sunday 22nd Jully 

Stage 15

With a rest day tomorrow it's probably that today's stage will include quite a few have a go heroes,

and from heroes to zeros on the Pic de Nore : )

Enjoyed the stage yesterday, and agree with the comments regarding Peter Sagan above, the man is an absolute marvel and showman. Two races for the price of one on Stage 14, the 'G' man continues to demonstrate how strong he is and comments after the race "This is the first time I've really gone for GC over three weeks."  ......and Froome had a liquid thrown in his face on the final climb from another classless race fan.

Love the race, one mistake or mechanical failure by a top contender and their advantage can evaporate in a heartbeat. ......and poor Dan Martin gets a flat tire right before the climb, incredible bad luck for him on this years tour.

Looking forward to today's race!