I believe it has been removed the last time I went on there people were getting a bit spiteful and insulting which could quite possibly result in the removal of what was at times a quite interesting and entertaining thread. Hopefully moderation will be enough and the thread will return.                                                

Ah. Thank you Bob,

I confess I did take exception to the language and intent in one of the last posts and brought this (probably unnecessarily) to the moderators attention.

s.

Richard will be giving at a bit of clean up I expect. Not a nice thread at all. I hate political stuff on these forums. 

Drewy posted:

Richard will be giving at a bit of clean up I expect.

A pretty thankless task and all for an honorary stipend of a butt of dry sack annually, and the right to graze his sheep on Salisbury meadows

Indeed. I am sure the people making Richard’s job unpleasant will publically apologise to him just before they are removed from the forum.

s.

C'est la vie.

Frankly, the thread in question has become so utterly toxic that I'm seriously considering binning it for good. Of late it appears to have widened well beyond the question of Britain leaving membership of the EU and has gone from  making judgements on the policies and the conduct of the "Brexit" negotiations to just becoming a thread where members make judgements upon each other.  That falls well outside of forum AUP. It's also highly corrosive to the overall bonhomie and trust within the forum. 

For those involved, I think it's time to take a break and think about what brought you all here in the first place. 

Drewy posted:

Richard will be giving at a bit of clean up I expect. Not a nice thread at all. I hate political stuff on these forums. 

Honestly guys, we shouldn’t require Richard to clean up others’ mess... I wish they would take their personal antics elsewhere.

Richard Dane posted:

Frankly, the thread in question has become so utterly toxic that I'm seriously considering binning it for good. Of late it appears to have widened well beyond the question of Britain leaving membership of the EU and has gone from  making judgements on the policies and the conduct of the "Brexit" negotiations to just becoming a thread where members make judgements upon each other.  That falls well outside of forum AUP. It's also highly corrosive to the overall bonhomie and trust within the forum. 

For those involved, I think it's time to take a break and think about what brought you all here in the first place. 

Just my tuppeny’s worth.

I’m not a believer in banning topics. The forum has a ‘Padded Cell’ to discuss non-music related matters. 

Whilst certain topics can be controversial, it is up to the participants to remain civil. If that doesn’t happen it is not the topics fault. Get rid of people who cannot be civil, not the people who put forward their viewpoint in a reasonable if passionate way. Courting controversy is a right but brings responsibility. Some people don’t seem able to manage the responsibility very well.

Let common sense prevail, do not ban the topic.

s.

Question;   is it my imagination or was it the same individual(s) that caused the orange one who has no name thread to get binned?

I’m afraid I don’t know.

I’m not particularly active on this forum so feel a little uneasy putting my view across. I understand a Trupm (is that allowed?) topic was banned but I don’t know why.

Should we not be able to discuss his merits and faults?

Healthy discussion should be encouraged.

s.

People need to listen to more great music.....

Simon C posted:

I’m afraid I don’t know.

I’m not particularly active on this forum so feel a little uneasy putting my view across. I understand a Trupm (is that allowed?) topic was banned but I don’t know why.

Should we not be able to discuss his merits and faults?

Healthy discussion should be encouraged.

 

s.

Healthy discussion is one thing, but personal attacks on another, simply because their views don’t correspond with one’s own, should be off limits.

I largely withdrew from posting on this topic, having become tired of the incessant “shouting “ on the part of various keyboard warriors.

I agree with Richard, and the topic has long since passed it’s useful sell by date, and should be consigned to history.

Mike-B posted:

Question;   is it my imagination or was it the same individual(s) that caused the orange one who has no name thread to get binned?

I'm sure it was and that that was his purpose all along.

It would be a shame if that succeeds.

Mike Sullivan posted:

People need to listen to more great music.....

Mike, or perhaps people just need to listen more full stop.   

several years ago (about 17 years ago I think another forum was set up that does allow some pretty corrosive discussion take place.

It also has several very good audio related sections

Mike-B posted:

Question;   is it my imagination or was it the same individual(s) that caused the orange one who has no name thread to get binned?

That's my recollection too.

Given that the negotiations with the EU are reaching a critical phase, and the exit date is now only months away, it would be a pity to close-off discussion of a topic so important to the UK.  That said, I would much prefer if the debate was continued in a polite and respectful fashion.  Being unable to be agree on some points should not tempt participants into name-calling and rudeness.  Most people wouldn't do that if having a conversation with others face-to-face so I see no reason to let standards of civility slip just because the conversation is being conducted on-line.   

MDS posted:

Given that the negotiations with the EU are reaching a critical phase, and the exit date is now only months away, it would be a pity to close-off discussion of a topic so important to the UK.  That said, I would much prefer if the debate was continued in a polite and respectful fashion.  Being unable to be agree on some points should not tempt participants into name-calling and rudeness.  Most people wouldn't do that if having a conversation with others face-to-face so I see no reason to let standards of civility slip just because the conversation is being conducted on-line.   

My view exactly Mike.

Hopefully Richard will agree.

How ironic that the precise type of petty name-calling, referencing and herd agreement is occurring on this very thread.  If you wish to be critical in reference to someone, perhaps you could acquire the eloquence of the eulogists at Sen. John McCain's funeral service yesterday.  They made direct hits, but did so with some civility, as Mr. McCain would have.  

What have I missed?

s.

The problem always comes when people seek to attack other contributors personally rather than discussing the topic, and of course then there is the inevitable tendency for counter-attack. And under these circumstances it is unsurprising that others might step in to chastise the evidently errant party, and things can rapidly become quite unpleasant as well as departing completely from the topic. And then poor Richard really has no option but to step in, whether he notices himself, or whether someone else decides it is has gone too far and calls his attention.

That happened in the T thread, and happened in the Sleepwalking thread. It seems that where politics are involved things all too often degenerate in that way, which is a shame.

However it does seem that athere are a small handful of individuals who are want to jump in, delighting in accusing people of being this, that, and the other, assigning labels that seem to be intended to be denigrating or insulting, and often quite clearly not having read or at least not having bothered to consider and understand posts against which they launch their attacks. And as has been observed, I think there was some commonality of such individuals in the aforementioned two threads. 

But then, such is life, and however much we do not like others, and cannot understand why it is that they are so different in their standards and beliefs compared to ourselves, we do all have a responsibility to hold back aggression and keep the peace, as after all, that is just what wars are made of....

Now, perhaps a new thread shoud be started, to discuss specifically matters relating to Brexit, including whether or not Britain will or should leave, whether or not there sophould be a confirmatory referendum, whether or not any particulat deal is acceptable and what to do if not. And specifically exclude any discussion of any aspect of politics not directly concerned with Brexit, that exclusion specifically  including any reference to whether any individual or group is left or right wing, or belongs to any political movement or follows any political philosophy, and without a single critical comment regarding any person or persons who post. 

So I have just done as I suggested - there is a new thread. Please follow thesempntiment expressed in the opening post.

https://forums.naimaudio.com/t...xit-the-final-throes

Ban trolls, not threads!  (Said in my best 1960s style protest voice).

Innocent Bystander posted:

The problem always comes when people seek to attack other contributors personally rather than discussing the topic, and of course then there is the inevitable tendency for counter-attack. And under these circumstances it is unsurprising that others might step in to chastise the evidently errant party, and things can rapidly become quite unpleasant as well as departing completely from the topic.

Yes, that was what exactly what happed, it started when someone unsolicitedly attacked some other members.