Help please.....getting deseperate

not sure what that diagram represents but implies that the connection between the internet and switch is wifi? I guess its supposed to be a Modem/router. 

garyi posted:

not sure what that diagram represents but implies that the connection between the internet and switch is wifi? I guess its supposed to be a Modem/router. 

No it does not imply that. 

The router starts the LAN and a wi-fi netowrk. 

Yes the playback if fine.....it just cannot find th racks reliably. 

I have restarted the network in that order with no joy. I use Ethernet not wifi.....I guess I am going to have to start from the beginning and reformat and copy the files

David,

Hold off on that.

It's highly unlikely that there's a data issue, it's much more likely that there's a discovery issue (i.e. it's not able to access the UPnP media server reliably in a sufficiently short time to be able to load the next track).  Your symptoms are highly unlikely to be a format problem.

To test for format problems, try playing (NOT in multi-room mode) a track that has previously failed to play (and try several times); if it ever plays OK, then the format and data are good and that's not your problem - format problems are always consistent and will cause failure every time you try to play the track.

As previously stated we need to get back to basics to diagnose this.

Do you ever have trouble playing a singe track when not in multi-room mode?
Do you ever have trouble playing a set of tracks when not in multi-room mode?
How are you controlling the NDS?
>   If using the app, how have you ensured that the wireless connection to the app isn't causing issues?
>   If using the app, have you cleared the cache in the app?
Have you rescanned the Media database?
Have you checked the network for Bojour and SSDP discovery issues?

Adam Zielinski posted:

garyi posted:

not sure what that diagram represents but implies that the connection between the internet and switch is wifi? I guess its supposed to be a Modem/router. 

No it does not imply that. 

The router starts the LAN and a wi-fi netowrk. 

Yes but most of the world would look at the and think the wifi icon is wifi, which I am sure you can agree is not a router (Or indeed a modem to negotiate with WAN).

Its important to have correct terminology because those with less experience might go searching on line following reading things here. The first thing to get right is, a router is a router and wifi is wifi they are not the same thing, even if they reside in the same box.

garyi posted:

not sure what that diagram represents but implies that the connection between the internet and switch is wifi? I guess its supposed to be a Modem/router. 

It’s a modem/router/WiFi access point in most people’s systems but it could be a router/WiFi access point.

The key thing is that it is proposing, as the most sensible, wired connections everywhere except between the WiFi access point and the phone/tablet that is the control point, the latter connection using WiFi.

best

David

Huge posted:

As previously stated we need to get back to basics to diagnose this.

Do you ever have trouble playing a singe track when not in multi-room mode?
Do you ever have trouble playing a set of tracks when not in multi-room mode?
How are you controlling the NDS?
>   If using the app, how have you ensured that the wireless connection to the app isn't causing issues?
>   If using the app, have you cleared the cache in the app?
Have you rescanned the Media database?
Have you checked the network for Bojour and SSDP discovery issues?

With no multi room I still have the same problem either using the NDS or app.

it will play the track, I then go to another, try and play the previous track and cannot find it.

i have not rescanned the media database; please advise how?

i use Mac, I have not scanned for Bonjour and SSDP discovery issues, how do I do that? 

Thnks in anticipation 

OK, so

1  It's not the multi-room that's causing it.

2  As you get the same using the app or using the front panel controls of the NDS then it's not the WiFi or the app getting out of sync.

3  To test Bonjour, the best thing is to download an app called NetAnalyser to your mobile device, and use that.

However, the first thing to try is the database rescan:

I can't see where you've told us what UPnP Media Server you're using, so I can't be specific about how to rescan the database.  However all the UPnP Media Servers use an external control panel application on a computer (and/or mobile device) to configure them and manage their operation.  The option to rescan the database will be somewhere in the UI of this control application.

After rescanning the database, reset the cache of the Naim app (<Settings><Input settings> <UPnP><Clear UPnP Cache>.

Many thanks. I use a Synology NAS

The route that's easiest to describe is by launching the 'Synology Assistant',
          then select the NAS unit that holds your music and click on <Connect>.

This will launch the Synology control page in your browser.

Click on the <Control Panel> icon, then click on <Indexing Service>.

Click the button <Index Folder>...  Then wait for it to complete - this can take a fair time if you have a lot of music files.

Davidr posted:

Many thanks. I use a Synology NAS

OK but what media server ???    The Syn native 'Media Server' or the 3rd party package 'Minimserver'

Meanwhile the indexing needs to be done to at least eliminate it. 

IF the issue started once the Mu-so's were updated, check the NDS and the app are running the latest firmware as well. Check the NDS in settings. Delete the app and download it again.  

Adam Zielinski posted:

The router starts the LAN and a wi-fi netowrk. 

Not a good assumption these days.. increasingly for effective reliable operation we are seeing simple setup where Wifi access point(s) are separated from the home broadband router.. I would show as two boxes with a dotted line round them.

Reading these forums, I would say a majority of issues with streaming and control are caused by bad Wifi implementations almost certainly not helped by bad Wifi access point / router bundles...

The diagram shows  separation of presumed router/Wifi  and switch, which is usually more benign than router and Wifi access point..

Davidr posted:

Now I am feeling vulnerable as I may be about to reveal stupidity! But ask for tolerane and help.

I have just received my NDS which was working wonderfully last night using UPnP, streaming to my MUSO & MUSOQB. Then I installed the unpdate for the MUSO and I can no longer stream to either of the MUSOs . When I am in the Naim app the multiroom option is there, both MUSOs appear but as soon as I try to connect to one its starts to try and connect and then disappears followed by the other one. 2 minutes later they appear!

What is more baffling is that using iRadio works just fine, streaming to the MUSOs so why does the UPnP

Both MUSOs have the multiroom enabled.

I test the MUSO which had the firmware update last night this morning streaming direct from the NAS and it kept dropping. The MUSO QB worked perfectly.

All suggestions welcome....I cannot understand what has gone wrong.

Hi, as others have suggested let’s pair it back.

What are you using as a switch...

What is your router

What is your Wifi..

How are they connected?

My hunch there is a protocol issue with your Wifi access point bridge, certainly as you say your home network is fine .. but if you can share we can help give some pointers

Mike-B posted:

Davidr posted:

Many thanks. I use a Synology NAS

OK but what media server ???    The Syn native 'Media Server' or the 3rd party package 'Minimserver'

Meanwhile the indexing needs to be done to at least eliminate it. 

The native Synology media server

That's what I assumed.

Have you done the rebuild of the database index yet?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Davidr posted:

Now I am feeling vulnerable as I may be about to reveal stupidity! But ask for tolerane and help.

I have just received my NDS which was working wonderfully last night using UPnP, streaming to my MUSO & MUSOQB. Then I installed the unpdate for the MUSO and I can no longer stream to either of the MUSOs . When I am in the Naim app the multiroom option is there, both MUSOs appear but as soon as I try to connect to one its starts to try and connect and then disappears followed by the other one. 2 minutes later they appear!

What is more baffling is that using iRadio works just fine, streaming to the MUSOs so why does the UPnP

Both MUSOs have the multiroom enabled.

I test the MUSO which had the firmware update last night this morning streaming direct from the NAS and it kept dropping. The MUSO QB worked perfectly.

All suggestions welcome....I cannot understand what has gone wrong.

Hi, as others have suggested let’s pair it back.

What are you using as a switch...

What is your router

What is your Wifi..

How are they connected?

My hunch there is a protocol issue with your Wifi access point bridge, certainly as you say your home network is fine .. but if you can share we can help give some pointers

Netgear GS105 switch

Asus RT-AC87U Router

Asus as above

Ethernet. Only wifi is to the musos

Huge posted:

3  To test Bonjour, the best thing is to download an app called NetAnalyser to your mobile device, and use that.

 

What am I looking for? I have scanned and no flashing warnings are co,ming up. I use Mac.  What does confuse me is the icons S in an orange boox, 6 in mauve and P in green. ...there is no legen which seems stupid.

Davidr posted:

Huge posted:

3  To test Bonjour, the best thing is to download an app called NetAnalyser to your mobile device, and use that.

 

What am I looking for? I have scanned and no flashing warnings are co,ming up. I use Mac.  What does confuse me is the icons S in an orange boox, 6 in mauve and P in green. ...there is no legen which seems stupid.

In Net Analyzer, go to About > Documentation > LAN for an explanation of what the coloured symbols mean. 

ChrisSU posted:

Davidr posted:

Huge posted:

3  To test Bonjour, the best thing is to download an app called NetAnalyser to your mobile device, and use that.

 

What am I looking for? I have scanned and no flashing warnings are co,ming up. I use Mac.  What does confuse me is the icons S in an orange boox, 6 in mauve and P in green. ...there is no legen which seems stupid.

In Net Analyzer, go to About > Documentation > LAN for an explanation of what the coloured symbols mean. 

Thanks

The legend for NetAnalyser can be found by going to about and then documentation / LAN.

P- pingable (green)

B- bonjour (brown)

U - Upnp (blue)

G - gateway (red)

S - scanning device (yellow)

6 - ipv6 (purple)

W -web (cyan)

Alfa4life posted:

The legend for NetAnalyser can be found by going to about and then documentation / LAN.

P- pingable (green)

B- bonjour (brown)

U - Upnp (blue)

G - gateway (red)

S - scanning device (yellow)

6 - ipv6 (purple)

W -web (cyan)

Many thanks...there seems to be nothing wrong with my network....but I dont really know what I am looking for

Mike-B posted:

Davidr posted:

Many thanks. I use a Synology NAS

OK but what media server ???    The Syn native 'Media Server' or the 3rd party package 'Minimserver'

Meanwhile the indexing needs to be done to at least eliminate it. 

I am using the media server and I have re- indexed

So I have re-indexed and it seems to be behaving better, the NDS has not failed to find a track ...so far so this is very encouraging. I think that there may have been conflicts with some of the pre-installed apps on the Synology NAS so I have removed them. I am now running Songkong to see if there are metadatra problems.

The Naim app does not seem to find a lot of the artwork, the files are either Applelossless or AIFF. ANy further wisdom

Many thanks for all of your contributions. It is a very helpful forum.