New car

Another thread full of hypocritical, patronising, proselytising irritants. All Fabio wanted to do was share his joy, instead of which, as usual, the thread has been hijacked!

Fabio 1 posted:

Hi all,I've just ordered this last week,it is an Opel Mokka X 4x4 1.6 cdti 136 hp in pearly white with black rims.Very,very good sensation after the driving test.I have purchased my new NAC 282 and my new Sony ILCE /RM3 this year,so Audi can wait...Any thoughts?

I’m curios about the sensation after driving it - Posterior stimulation by the seats perhaps..?

Timmo1341 posted:

Another thread full of hypocritical, patronising, proselytising irritants. All Fabio wanted to do was share his joy, instead of which, as usual, the thread has been hijacked!

Absolutely,  many from a UK perspective rather than Italian,  we need to understand the cost of diesel in Italy is significantly lower than petrol  €1.382 vs €1.193.  The plans for phasing out diesel in Italy is not so advanced as other northern countries, there is no national 'incentive' to discourage diesel other than some individual cities bringing in restrictions in the future - Milan next year, Rome 2024.    Also the Opel CDTi engine is one of the better Euro-6 diesels with 106g/km   

So good luck Fabio,  enjoy your new car.  

It’s not really about price, or C02 emissions, is it? In the UK we were steered through taxation towards diesel because of low emissions, and like many others we had diesels for some years. Three years ago, with the VW scandal, it became clear that things were different, and that the black soot and Nox were literally killing people. Testing has shown that over 90% of new diesels that meet the EU6 regulations fail miserably in real world driving conditions. When we bought a new car three years ago we switched to petrol, even though it costs a bit more to run. 

It seems to me one thing to continue to run a diesel because you already own it and cannot afford to change it, but another thing entirely to buy a brand new one when there is no need. There really is no justification for it, unless you put saving a few quid or Euro’s above people’s lives.

Fabio specifically asked for opinions, so it’s hardly proselytising to give them, is it?

Innocent Bystander posted:

Fabio 1 posted:

Hi all,I've just ordered this last week,it is an Opel Mokka X 4x4 1.6 cdti 136 hp in pearly white with black rims.Very,very good sensation after the driving test.I have purchased my new NAC 282 and my new Sony ILCE /RM3 this year,so Audi can wait...Any thoughts?

I’m curios about the sensation after driving it - Posterior stimulation by the seats perhaps..?

I liked this car when I first  saw it.I would say further stimulation after driving it.Do you agree you have to drive a car and test it before the purchase?Anyway I would way yes,seats are very comfortable too.

Mike-B posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Another thread full of hypocritical, patronising, proselytising irritants. All Fabio wanted to do was share his joy, instead of which, as usual, the thread has been hijacked!

Absolutely,  many from a UK perspective rather than Italian,  we need to understand the cost of diesel in Italy is significantly lower than petrol  €1.382 vs €1.193.  The plans for phasing out diesel in Italy is not so advanced as other northern countries, there is no national 'incentive' to discourage diesel other than some individual cities bringing in restrictions in the future - Milan next year, Rome 2024.    Also the Opel CDTi engine is one of the better Euro-6 diesels with 106g/km   

So good luck Fabio,  enjoy your new car.  

Thank you Mike.

Timmo1341 posted:

Another thread full of hypocritical, patronising, proselytising irritants. All Fabio wanted to do was share his joy, instead of which, as usual, the thread has been hijacked!

Thankyou. I appreciate it. All the backslapping and atta-boys had died down. Time for something different.

hungryhalibut posted:

<snip>

Fabio specifically asked for opinions, so it’s hardly proselytising to give them, is it?

I think he just wanted to chat about his new car though

I'm quite happy with my 24, 29 & 42 year old cars. 

"Diesel, fuel of the Devil"

Rich 1 posted:

Just bought a Skoda Superb estate, it's big enough to get a whole stack of Naim, a frame and a couple of old Linn Kans. It'll mean more room in my living room! It'll be the 'car that rocks'. Rich 

Skoda - now you're talking!  They can come in very handy sometimes 

hungryhalibut posted:

It seems to me one thing to continue to run a diesel because you already own it and cannot afford to change it, but another thing entirely to buy a brand new one when there is no need. There really is no justification for it, unless you put saving a few quid or Euro’s above people’s lives.

Fabio specifically asked for opinions, so it’s hardly proselytising to give them, is it?

You obviously don't live in an area where access is restricted due to local council's failure to clear or grit country lanes which necessitates the use of a 4X4 for half the year. Most manufacturers only make diesel 4X4s and the few petrol ones available tend to have higher than average CO2 emissions.

The anti SUVs people should also take into account their legacy pollution and CO2 emissions, when I have gone and the exhaust from the crematorium has cleared ther will be no further pollution from me and my tribe. My legacy pollution is zero. Until then I shall enjoy driving my 2.4 litre twin turbo diesel, perhaps one day I  shall get a new one that uses AdBlue that reduces the particulate emissions to a very low value and also consumes pig's urine.

So before you castigate the SUV driver compare your legacy CO2 and particulate emissions with mine.   

We had 2 BMW diesels on lease the past three years in the US.  An estate 328 for my wife and an SUV for me.  She would do 50+ MPG on the hiway.  Mine was the X3 and got 44 on hiway.  We loved them, planned to buy them out.  However, a fire hazzard recall caused a stop ship/sell.  I would have got a new one, but no X3 diesels being sold in 2019.  So we went shopping and my wife ended up with a Mazda CX5 grand touring suv and I ended up with a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid Limited.  Both use regular gas, and while the mpg is not in the same league as the diesels, the cost of regular petrol more than makes up for it.  Perhaps the diesels would have lower cost of maintainance long term, but with 3 year leases, its not my concern.  It all covered for the term of the lease.  

Probably costs me more to lease than own, but I owned Volvos for many years and the total cost for owning was the same a leasing.  So now I lease, and get a new car every 3 years and enjoy it.  These cars are not quite BMW's, the the difference is cost more than makes up for it.  Took a road trip in the RAV, and the Hybrid drive is so nice, much smoother that the gas version.  Love the new ride.  Will always love the BIMMERS--have owned 9 of them.  Perhaps in 3 years when BMW offers an X3 Hybrid, we will go back.  And yes, I walk 4 miles a day, am 74 years young, and the SUV fits my lifestyle more.  Its so much easier to get in and out of.  Not gong to every own a sedan again.  

An SUV is no more impractical than an ND555 and PS555, which I am picking up on Tuesday.

Bailyhill

I normally keep out of such polarised discussions because everyones opinion is valid and it ends up as an 'Im right, youre wrong discussion'.

However, I feel the need to point out that somewhere the point is being missed that though an electric vehicle is cleaner than petrol or diesel considering 'well to wheel' scenario, the full Life Cycle Analysis needs to be done, including where all the rare earths / minerals for batteries and motors come from, as well as how little of these new components can be recycled. The automotive industry will get the recycling sorted over time, and eventually I hope they will be able to design out the rare earths and difficult to mine minerals, but for now we need to get these from China, Russia and South America....

I have a Euro VI compliant diesel engine vehicle which I am very comfortable about owning.

The problem with diesels is the number of older vehicles, buses, vans and commercial vehicles on the road. There needs to be some encouragement for fleet owners to transition their old polluting diesel vehicles to something more modern, that will go a long long way towards solving air pollution in cities. 

Right, thats my piece said, I hope Ive added a different perspective on the 'diesels are bad' (compared to what, and how is it being compared?) debate.

...and before a comment is made, my Euro VI compliant diesel vehicle does comply also according to WLTP standards.

But yes, this is thread should be about Fabio's new car - enjoy it Fabio!

Fabio,

Qute little Opel, enjoy it.

I belong to the other camp, not lasting after new wheels simply because my 14 years old (220,000km) Acura had been exemplary, needing only two sets of tires, a battery and some break pads, not requiring the slightest repair. I love its simplicity, the manual transmission and the complete lack of bells and whistles. It is a luxury not to have to go through any menu to access functions and I am so thankful every day that the car is not able to talk to me. They just don't make them like that anymore.

Going back to HH's saying, I cannot believe how fast VW/AUDI had bounced back from the emissions cheating scandal in the US. People have a very short memory.

ChrisH posted:

I normally keep out of such polarised discussions because everyones opinion is valid and it ends up as an 'Im right, youre wrong discussion'.

However, I feel the need to point out that somewhere the point is being missed that though an electric vehicle is cleaner than petrol or diesel considering 'well to wheel' scenario, the full Life Cycle Analysis needs to be done, including where all the rare earths / minerals for batteries and motors come from, as well as how little of these new components can be recycled. The automotive industry will get the recycling sorted over time, and eventually I hope they will be able to design out the rare earths and difficult to mine minerals, but for now we need to get these from China, Russia and South America....

I have a Euro VI compliant diesel engine vehicle which I am very comfortable about owning.

The problem with diesels is the number of older vehicles, buses, vans and commercial vehicles on the road. There needs to be some encouragement for fleet owners to transition their old polluting diesel vehicles to something more modern, that will go a long long way towards solving air pollution in cities. 

Right, thats my piece said, I hope Ive added a different perspective on the 'diesels are bad' (compared to what, and how is it being compared?) debate.

ChrisH,

is the same for me too:I didn't mean to open a Pandora's box,I was just waiting for two cents regarding my new car,but it seems it is time for me now to say something to Mr.HH.

Ciao.

hungryhalibut posted:

It’s not really about price, or C02 emissions, is it? In the UK we were steered through taxation towards diesel because of low emissions, and like many others we had diesels for some years. Three years ago, with the VW scandal, it became clear that things were different, and that the black soot and Nox were literally killing people. Testing has shown that over 90% of new diesels that meet the EU6 regulations fail miserably in real world driving conditions. When we bought a new car three years ago we switched to petrol, even though it costs a bit more to run. 

It seems to me one thing to continue to run a diesel because you already own it and cannot afford to change it, but another thing entirely to buy a brand new one when there is no need. There really is no justification for it, unless you put saving a few quid or Euro’s above people’s lives.

Fabio specifically asked for opinions, so it’s hardly proselytising to give them, is it?

So you say I'm responsible of someone's death?Don't you and your petrol car are responsible of the greenhouse effect more than a Diesel engine is?Don't you, and your petrol car, give a considerable contribute to El Nino that kills, say,only few persons on the world?No?Did you absolve yourself?Why did you buy your fantastic super green petrol car three years ago?Why didn't you buy an electric one?Pardon?Too expensive?Well,is the same for me, but,if so, please save your boring lesson.I can't afford an electric car for the moment.As soon an as electric car will be more affordable,don't worry,I will get one:maybe you will not believe it but my parents brought me up better than what you think regarding an ecological awareness:I use my Cube Curve Pro everyday to go to work.

Ciao.

I wouldn’t bother Fabio; I think he just enjoys stirring the pot and being the centre of attention!

hungryhalibut posted:

It’s not really about price, or C02 emissions, is it? In the UK we were steered through taxation towards diesel because of low emissions, and like many others we had diesels for some years. Three years ago, with the VW scandal, it became clear that things were different, and that the black soot and Nox were literally killing people. Testing has shown that over 90% of new diesels that meet the EU6 regulations fail miserably in real world driving conditions. When we bought a new car three years ago we switched to petrol, even though it costs a bit more to run. 

It seems to me one thing to continue to run a diesel because you already own it and cannot afford to change it, but another thing entirely to buy a brand new one when there is no need. There really is no justification for it, unless you put saving a few quid or Euro’s above people’s lives.

Fabio specifically asked for opinions, so it’s hardly proselytising to give them, is it?

So you say I'm responsible of someone's death's?Don't you and your petrol car are responsible of the greenhouse effect more than a Diesel engine is?Don't you, and your petrol car, give a considerable contribute to El Nino that kills, say,only few persons on the world??No?Did you absolve yourself?Why did you buy your fantastic super green petrol car three years ago?Why didn't you buy an electric one?Pardon?Too expensive?If yes, is the same same for me:I can't afford an electric car for the moment, but don't worry I will get one as soon as it will be more affordable.So,please,save your lesson.Maybe you will not believe me but my parents brought me up better than what you think regarding an ecological awareness.I use my Cube Curve Pro everyday to go to work.

Ciao HH,don't get angry.

Timmo,

really?He's welcome.

ChrisH posted:

I normally keep out of such polarised discussions because everyones opinion is valid and it ends up as an 'Im right, youre wrong discussion'.

However, I feel the need to point out that somewhere the point is being missed that though an electric vehicle is cleaner than petrol or diesel considering 'well to wheel' scenario, the full Life Cycle Analysis needs to be done, including where all the rare earths / minerals for batteries and motors come from, as well as how little of these new components can be recycled. The automotive industry will get the recycling sorted over time, and eventually I hope they will be able to design out the rare earths and difficult to mine minerals, but for now we need to get these from China, Russia and South America....

I have a Euro VI compliant diesel engine vehicle which I am very comfortable about owning.

The problem with diesels is the number of older vehicles, buses, vans and commercial vehicles on the road. There needs to be some encouragement for fleet owners to transition their old polluting diesel vehicles to something more modern, that will go a long long way towards solving air pollution in cities. 

Right, thats my piece said, I hope Ive added a different perspective on the 'diesels are bad' (compared to what, and how is it being compared?) debate.

Very true the last EU figures I found for the Carbon Footprint of motor vehicles showed that in the EU at an average annual mileage of 10,000 the Carbon Footprint of a Nissan Leaf EV and a Nissan Qashqai ICE were very simalar.

Regarding pollution in Cities we need to start rolling out a lot more planned LEZ zones when London implemented the LEZ zone I was the Group Transport manager for a large Construction Supply Company with Branches operating inside the LEZ Zone.

 At the time was quite disappointed at the very low standards set.We had ten  year old Volvo trucks that would pass the requirement yet some newer Scania vehicles did not comply.

Ironically Buses the most polluting of vehicles at the time by the nature of there stop start operation were exempt from the scheme!!!

Oh,HH please pardon me for my English:it is not my language,so feel free to correct me but, please,no lesson!

Oh,HH please pardon my English:it is not my language,so feel free to correct me but, please,no lesson...Thank you.

Congratulations with your new car Fabio!

It’s a smart looking little car which happens to have four wheel drive when needed,  which represents lower emissions for those situations where you don’t- and let's face it there are more of those  An upright seating position makes sense because in a smaller car you will be able to fit more luggage. It also gives you a better more elevated view compared to older small cars.

And please pay no attention to some of the contributors here whom apparently can't behave in a polite manner.

Most of the flat mainland of the European continent has its energy provided by coal fired energy plants and I believe gas exported from Russia and Norway is mainly for domestic use. Electric cars as a "clean" alternative only makes sense in areas where you can provide cleanly sourced energy. Sourcing dirty energy to charge an electric car is very bad for the warming of the atmosphere as well as for your neighboring countries, as you effectively dump your sour acid rain on their soil. Trump would approve though!

New petrol cars have directly injected fuel and a recent scientific analys made by the Norwegian Transport Economic beurau suggested that new petrol cars were basically among the worst offenders regarding NOx, CO2 and "floating particles" (sorry, don't know the english word for that). Someone also foolishly believe that petrol fuelled cars don't represent a real problem for the densly populated areas. It's like suggesting that smog is not a real problem and probably just a very recent one.

I have a petrol fueled car myself and I have to say it's just a necessary evil. For the daily commute I use an electric bicycle - charged by electricity from a hydro electric plant.

I'm not suggesting for one minute that I have cleaner conscience, and I wonder if any of us really can? Where should we start; travelling less by airplane, buying only locally sourced food, what kind of clothes is best for the environment etc. It really is a mammoth task. 

Is there an echo in here?

.sjb