New car

hungryhalibut posted:

I’m sure my dislike of these vehicles is irrational, but they are just huge, unnecessarily so. If somebody wants the luggage or dog space, something like a 5 series estate seems ideal. It’s a nice looking car, but doesn’t take up half the road. There are a couple of examples on here, sensibly explained, of needing to go to snowy places or rough country tracks. But I bet hardly any of the owners do that. There’s a little unassuming guy round the corner with a Cayenne, which he drives at ridiculous speeds in 30mph roads. He won’t put his dog in the car as it would make it dirty, so has another vast 4x4 that he uses at the weekend. All week long, it sits on the road so we struggle to see round the corner. Another neighbour has a Jaguar F pace or something. It’s bloody enormous. The most challenging thing it does is go to collect his son from football. It has never seen a speck of mud in its life. It needs huge parking spaces. A nice 320 or A4 would suit him much better but no, it must be a puffed up Chelsea tractor. And it’s a bloody diesel. Why, why, why?

Freedom of choice.

We don't live in a dictatorship (yet)..........

Well yes, but for most it seems a very odd choice. Driving round in something huge when it’s not required just seems weird. It’s little different from having a big stereo in some ways, but swanking around in an unnecessarily vast car gives a certain message. I will admit though, that when my brother in law had a Land Rover Defender with bench seats it was great for country walks, and you could see over the hedges and see if anything was coming. 

my wife and i have no car.  We don’t like driving cars.....  We just rent a car when somewhere on holidays.    A lot of trains, bus, metro....here in Paris.    I like  to walk every day too....

Some things in life require justification, but choices of transport, hifi, expensive wines and whiskies, size of house, partners’ jewellery, expensive wrist watches etc.....surely don’t belong in that category? I suppose if you look hard enough at anything made or produced by man there will be negative aspects, but we’d be living pretty empty, miserable lives were we to deny ourselves on that basis. Sanctimonious judgementalism is normally, in my experience, born of envy. When parliament decides to forbid the ownership of a particular car or engine I’ll take notice. Until then it really should be each to his or her own, and those with nothing good to say would do better to ‘say nowt’, to borrow from a famous Northern expression.

Timmo1341 posted:

Some things in life require justification, but choices of transport, hifi, expensive wines and whiskies, size of house, partners’ jewellery, expensive wrist watches etc.....surely don’t belong in that category? I suppose if you look hard enough at anything made or produced by man there will be negative aspects, but we’d be living pretty empty, miserable lives were we to deny ourselves on that basis. Sanctimonious judgementalism is normally, in my experience, born of envy. When parliament decides to forbid the ownership of a particular car or engine I’ll take notice. Until then it really should be each to his or her own, and those with nothing good to say would do better to ‘say nowt’, to borrow from a famous Northern expression.

Well said, that man.

hungryhalibut posted:

Well yes, but for most it seems a very odd choice. Driving round in something huge when it’s not required just seems weird. It’s little different from having a big stereo in some ways, but swanking around in an unnecessarily vast car gives a certain message. I will admit though, that when my brother in law had a Land Rover Defender with bench seats it was great for country walks, and you could see over the hedges and see if anything was coming. 

Ours is required. Estate cars are too small for our dogs, and the bits we lug about. Four-wheel drive comes in very handy for where we go, at least once a month. It’s a 600 mile round trip, across the north Pennines, so comfort is important. I have rhematoid arthritis, so getting in and out of small cars is a real nuisance.

I’m only telling you this because, like the folk I know with similar vehicles, I didn’t buy this car for a spot of willy-waving.

For some reason, it is very hard for me to imagine any proud owner of the 500/552/555 driving a tiny car, that is unless he is suffering from acute schizophrenia.. Thank god for all the dogs excusing the monsters we drive. By the way, the best vehicle for dogs are station wagons which do not force the poor creatures to leap in and out from circus heights.

Timmo1341 posted:

Some things in life require justification, but choices of transport, hifi, expensive wines and whiskies, size of house, partners’ jewellery, expensive wrist watches etc.....surely don’t belong in that category? I suppose if you look hard enough at anything made or produced by man there will be negative aspects, but we’d be living pretty empty, miserable lives were we to deny ourselves on that basis. Sanctimonious judgementalism is normally, in my experience, born of envy. When parliament decides to forbid the ownership of a particular car or engine I’ll take notice. Until then it really should be each to his or her own, and those with nothing good to say would do better to ‘say nowt’, to borrow from a famous Northern expression.

Tim, I know where you are coming from, but I’d suggest there is no need to take the moral high ground here. There are dozens of system pics where I think people have made bad choices in furniture, carpets, artwork and all sorts, but I wouldn’t dream of saying so, even if as grown ups they have cuddly toy all over the place. Much of the music in the Music Room would send me running for the off button, but people like what they like and there is an unwritten rule that we don’t criticicise each others’ choices. In this instance, however, the OP specifically asked for views on their purchase, so they are open to views both good and bad. I think it’s a bad choice, and am perfectly entitled to say that, and there is no reason whatsoever why the OP should feel aggrieved, or indeed why you should feel the need to lend him your support. 

tonym posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Well yes, but for most it seems a very odd choice. Driving round in something huge when it’s not required just seems weird. It’s little different from having a big stereo in some ways, but swanking around in an unnecessarily vast car gives a certain message. I will admit though, that when my brother in law had a Land Rover Defender with bench seats it was great for country walks, and you could see over the hedges and see if anything was coming. 

Ours is required. Estate cars are too small for our dogs, and the bits we lug about. Four-wheel drive comes in very handy for where we go, at least once a month. It’s a 600 mile round trip, across the north Pennines, so comfort is important. I have rhematoid arthritis, so getting in and out of small cars is a real nuisance.

I’m only telling you this because, like the folk I know with similar vehicles, I didn’t buy this car for a spot of willy-waving.

Tony, you always seem a very sensible and considered person, and I have no issue with you driving what you drive. The fact that you say you are not willy-waving illustrates very well that so many who drive these vehicles do precisely that. One only has to pass a private school at young Tarquin’s picking up time to see how many people drive these things. The largest item they carry, other than young Tarquin, is very likely a few papayas that they have just picked up from Waitrose. 

Bob the Builder posted:

The Democratic Republic of Congo supplies most of the Cobalt used in the Lithium batteries that run electric cares where children as young as ten are used to dig out this 'new gold' so before you get so high and mighty about driving electric cars maybe you should think about that                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

A lot of oil is extracted in Venezuela, Nigeria and in middle-eastern states with questionable practices in human rights.  The emissions from driving are also destroying our planet. So before you get so high and mighty about driving ICE cars maybe you should think about that.

Haim Ronen posted:

For some reason, it is very hard for me to imagine any proud owner of the 500/552/555 driving a tiny car, that is unless he is suffering from acute schizophrenia.. Thank god for all the dogs excusing the monsters we drive. By the way, the best vehicle for dogs are station wagons which do not force the poor creatures to leap in and out from circus heights.

There is always a way...

hungryhalibut posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

Some things in life require justification, but choices of transport, hifi, expensive wines and whiskies, size of house, partners’ jewellery, expensive wrist watches etc.....surely don’t belong in that category? I suppose if you look hard enough at anything made or produced by man there will be negative aspects, but we’d be living pretty empty, miserable lives were we to deny ourselves on that basis. Sanctimonious judgementalism is normally, in my experience, born of envy. When parliament decides to forbid the ownership of a particular car or engine I’ll take notice. Until then it really should be each to his or her own, and those with nothing good to say would do better to ‘say nowt’, to borrow from a famous Northern expression.

Tim, I know where you are coming from, but I’d suggest there is no need to take the moral high ground here. There are dozens of system pics where I think people have made bad choices in furniture, carpets, artwork and all sorts, but I wouldn’t dream of saying so, even if as grown ups they have cuddly toy all over the place. Much of the music in the Music Room would send me running for the off button, but people like what they like and there is an unwritten rule that we don’t criticicise each others’ choices. In this instance, however, the OP specifically asked for views on their purchase, so they are open to views both good and bad. I think it’s a bad choice, and am perfectly entitled to say that, and there is no reason whatsoever why the OP should feel aggrieved, or indeed why you should feel the need to lend him your support. 

I’m saying nowt!

If more people were to walk to school, corner shop etc, and use bicycle to commute to work (electrically assisted if limited fitness, very hilly or a longer distance), and public transport for other journeys where there is s decent service and the additional carrying capacity and flexibility of timing aren’t needed, there would be: a) no need for so many vehicles on the road - including those discussed here, b) more space on the roads for those that do need to drive trucks, and c) less pollution, whether from diesel or petrol.

But that is probably enough in this direction  ...time to resurrect the Cyclists! thread, perhaps?

Oh no! Once Don & Winky get going that’ll be it for the next 50 pages!

winkyincanada posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

The Democratic Republic of Congo supplies most of the Cobalt used in the Lithium batteries that run electric cares where children as young as ten are used to dig out this 'new gold' so before you get so high and mighty about driving electric cars maybe you should think about that                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                              

A lot of oil is extracted in Venezuela, Nigeria and in middle-eastern states with questionable practices in human rights.  The emissions from driving are also destroying our planet. So before you get so high and mighty about driving ICE cars maybe you should think about that.

+1;  we need to upgrade all those situations and get clean energy without damaging the planet or its people to the extent possible.  This has been going on for a long time.  Think of the coal mines in WV USA, Gas and Oil drilling, etc.  .  Industry here thrived on cheap energy and grew to its current state.  Unfortunately, the profit and wall street mentality makes this difficult at times, and that's where government must do the right thing---which is difficult because of all the lobbyists and special interests, which just switch the profit motive from industry to government.  

Just let my 2 diesels go off lease.  Went Hybrid and turn off 2 cylinders at hiway driving.  Loved the diesels, but too much uncertainty to buy them out.  I love the leasing experience--probably more expensive--but as Loreal says:  "I am worth it".  I am 74 years young and owned most cars for 14 years.  Cost the same.  So I opt now for a new car every 3 years.  Family grown and launched.  Time to enjoy the time I have left.  Get my ND555/PS555 on Tuesday.

BTW:  Did this Forum get renamed?  Naim Auto?  Did I miss something?  Lets get back to Naim.

Bailyhill

Timmo1341 posted:

Some things in life require justification, but choices of transport, hifi, expensive wines and whiskies, size of house, partners’ jewellery, expensive wrist watches etc.....

The odd one out in that list is choice if transport, because in so many ways it impinges on other people, not just oneself and possibly family: Road wear and tear, illnesses caused by particulates and chemical pollutants, climate change, others’ freedom to use the road. Stereotypically, even courtesy towards others, as it often seems that the people in the biggest cars tend to be the least courteous to other road users, though various reasons are advanced for that, such as that the driver is so removed from the road, or that the driver thinks he/she is better than anyone else as evidenced by the size of the car.

So, whilst none of the listed “things in life” require justification to others, choice of transport arguably should have other considerations beyond simply “I like that so I’ll have it”, the degree of consideration beyond fitness for purpose depending on one’s balance of self and others (and environment).

Interesting that Bailyhill’s new hybrid has cylinders you can turn off. Our car automatically drops two when cruising, and has amazing fuel consumption for a petrol car that is relatively nippy. We’d love a pure electric car, but until they are a sensible price and can tow our little caravan, I’m afraid it’s not to be. 

Haim Ronen posted:

For some reason, it is very hard for me to imagine any proud owner of the 500/552/555 driving a tiny car, that is unless he is suffering from acute schizophrenia.. Thank god for all the dogs excusing the monsters we drive. By the way, the best vehicle for dogs are station wagons which do not force the poor creatures to leap in and out from circus heights.

why?   some very rich persons in Paris or Nederland , for instance, are driving only scooters or even bikes.    All persons don’t want to show their bank account in the street and prefer the convenience of a scooter vs big 4X4 like the BWW X6 , specially in a town .

All depends where somebody live also.  In US, i think it’s difficult to live without a car.  So a person with a naim statement in house will probably not drive a citroen 2v or fiat punto.   But why not finally....

Actually, Mazda has come up with a way to burn Petrol/Gasoline in an engine like a diesel.  This is a much leaner burn, which helps some emissions/consumption.  It was described as a 2 liter engine, with the power of a 2.5 liter, with the consumption of a 1.5 liter.  This engine has been in work for some time.  It relys on both compression ignition like a diesel and spark control like a gasoline engine.  Mazda sees it as the holy grail of all this.  They are planning on making it available in about 9 months it seems.  You can google on the CX3 reveal where it is shown in a related video.  Sounds exciting.  They have apparently succeeded where other manufacturers have not been able to.  

My wife's new CX5 is a 2 liter 4 cyl that shuts off two cylinders under low load on the hiway.  It manages that all under computer control, so there is no "eco" button to push or forget to push. 

If this new petrol/diesel (CCCI) (I think it stands for Combustion Chamber Controlled Ignition) engine comes to market, it will be a strong consideration for us in three years when we upgrade.

Bailyhill

NFuel consumption is the only thing I don’t like about our Audi TT - the one disadvantage of the 20 year old design. However, our mileage is very low, even with my wife commuting in it much of the time. But as a “druver’s car” it excels, and is sure-footed and safe even on snow, but with enough acceleration to perform overtaking manoeuvres very swiftly indeed - another safety plus.

The last point of course is something on which electric cars can excel, and I am really looking forward to having one - but I can’t see one that would provide the transport that fits my requirements becoming affirdable for at least another decade, maybe longer. The prices and range (battery swap or fast charge) both have some way to go yet, especially price.

Not sure how it would do with a caravan - but then I’m not sure I want to pull one, though after Ibretire we plan to go touring around Europe ( if the British aren’t banned), spending several months a year, and the choice is a caravan (which I hate) or buying s motirhome, which costs a lot more and will spend a lot of time idle . And means taking one’s home out for the day, or into town, if beyond the range of bikes.

I nearly forgot - and an added benefit of electric that I look forward to is quietness, though for safety there needs to be something better than the beepers some cars are fitted with at the moment to warn pedestrians!

IB, there are of course caravans and caravans. We have this, which is a caravan for people who don’t like caravans. We took it to the south of France in the summer and being really light, you don’t need a big car to tow it.

hungryhalibut posted:

Well yes, but for most it seems a very odd choice. Driving round in something huge when it’s not required just seems weird. It’s little different from having a big stereo in some ways, but swanking around in an unnecessarily vast car gives a certain message. I will admit though, that when my brother in law had a Land Rover Defender with bench seats it was great for country walks, and you could see over the hedges and see if anything was coming. 

Well, most of us who have these SUVs or 4x4s don't actually have a small, electric car for the occasional visit to the local supermarket that is 3.5 miles away. So we jump into the 4x4 and that's when you see us . Rest of the time we are heading out into the countryside with the kids and hiking gear for the whole day - that's when you don't see us, even though we can see over the hedges !

Some people only see part of the picture - and jump to inappropriate conclusions. Well, not just "some" people, probably most of us from time to time and not just with regard to SUVs and 4x4s.

hungryhalibut posted:

IB, there are of course caravans and caravans. We have this, which is a caravan for people who don’t like caravans. We took it to the south of France in the summer and being really light, you don’t need a big car to tow it.

Thanks HH - something I need to research before the time comes. I may try hiring a campervan for s couple of weeks, then ditto a caravan (but would need tow at first).

My new 2hp eco-model.

And we're encouraging the residents of our Granny flat in reverting to a more environmentally friendly wash cycle too.

Our theme is 'No Miele or no meal. Take your choice.'

Don Atkinson posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

Well yes, but for most it seems a very odd choice. Driving round in something huge when it’s not required just seems weird. It’s little different from having a big stereo in some ways, but swanking around in an unnecessarily vast car gives a certain message. I will admit though, that when my brother in law had a Land Rover Defender with bench seats it was great for country walks, and you could see over the hedges and see if anything was coming. 

Well, most of us who have these SUVs or 4x4s don't actually have a small, electric car for the occasional visit to the local supermarket that is 3.5 miles away. So we jump into the 4x4 and that's when you see us . Rest of the time we are heading out into the countryside with the kids and hiking gear for the whole day - that's when you don't see us, even though we can see over the hedges !

Some people only see part of the picture - and jump to inappropriate conclusions. Well, not just "some" people, probably most of us from time to time and not just with regard to SUVs and 4x4s.

Well I am one of the lucky ones.  I have 3 cars.  Two former diesels and now two petrols.  I also have an i3 REX which I use for the local errands, although I have taken it on trips of 200 miles each way.  Having 3 cars allows for low mileage leases which are very reasonable--still more than 2 cars, but it supports the green movement and I work on an island in the summer and its great to use for that purpose.  As for the need for a 4x4 SUV, my winter house it on top of a mountain, with a 1 mile private road with a 20% grade and no switchbacks.  In the winter, if you do not have 4wd, then you do not get home, or you walk.  I am probably one of 2% of the folks with an SUV 4x4 who really needs one.  

As for electric cars, I love the i3 Rex--rarely use the Rex.  I do find that all except Tesla have made a tactical error, as the charging stations are not keeping with the reliability of the BMW or Naim lifestyle.  Tesla does own their own, and maintains them.  The others are private companies, and they are not focused on providing 99% up time at their chargers.  When they go down, they stay down for weeks.  Not a good thing.  This made the Rex practically mandatory--otherwise you drive to a charging station, its down, and now you are sunk--can't get to the next one, and in fact don't even know where it is.  Its BRICK time.  I hope this will improve, however I see the Hybrids with limited EV modes like 20-50 miles probably being the long term solution.  They provide the short trip advantage of EV and the long trip advantage of petrol.  Its going to be interesting.

Bailyhill