New car

I’ve never felt guilty - my Audi A3 delivers 65 or so MPG and my Discovery has a DPF and Adblu and is used sparingly. I’ve liked the Audi so much I’m thinking of buying another. Apart from car park damage caused by others it’s never put a foot wrong in 4 years and 46000 miles.

I don't feel bad about driving a diesel. I consider it more environmentally friendly than petrol for my journeys, and as a bonus I don't have to pay any road tax or congestion charges on it.

Dozey posted:

I don't feel bad about driving a diesel. I consider it more environmentally friendly than petrol for my journeys, and as a bonus I don't have to pay any road tax or congestion charges on it.

In what way is more environmentally friendly than a petrol?  I don't have to pay any road tax on one of my cars either.

Guinnless posted:

ChrisR_EPL posted:

This week we've observed two different cars being driven locally; both are tuned versions of shopping cars, one an Abarth 500 the other a Focus ST. And both have huge exhausts coupled with engine mgmt changes that for some reason cause the drivers to accelerate hard [in busy built-up areas] then lift off causing overrun exhaust blowbacks and a bit of crackling & popping. Once is a bit stupid, watching it happen from when the car looms into view from one direction and disappears in the other indicates that an utter pillock is at the wheel. But it generates a smile and a laugh at it all as they kangaroo up the road spitting and farting. 

LOL it's called poor tuning - probably one of these add on boxes off the internet.   A properly tuned car doesn't do it.

You can buy a BMW or Mercedes from the factory with optional "fart mode". A friend of mine's 4-series has it. But it costs extra to have your car sound so stupid.

Hi Skip,

Nice article about "dieselgate".

I simply bought diesel cars last time around in the UK because I buy second hand, and these particular cars were extremely good value and in extremely good condition. We used to have a fleet of HGVs back in the 60's and 70's. So I have been very aware of the particulate emmissions of diesel engines and was incredibly surprised that car makers and governments were so keen to promote diesel engined cars starting about 20 or 30 years ago.

Anyway, in the grand scheme of things, ditching a few diesel engined cars in Europe over the next 15 years or so, is going to make sod-all difference to global climate change.

When Germany, Poland, China, the USA and a lots more, agree to stop burning coal to generate electricity, and a few more countries start putting climate change agreements into effect, then, and only then, will I resolve to make my next car purchase a petrol one. Otherwise it will be as before - best available choice regardless of petrol or diesel.

And before anybody comments, you are correct, electric cars don't even get a look-in ! Nor do push-bikes or public transport.

Don

'I am not going to do anything because others are worse than me' is justification used by all sorts of people for all sorts of behaviours (I see it in my job all the time). I think it is an excuse for inaction. If everyone shared that view nothing will change, and there is no pressure on govts or corporations to change either. Our purchasing behaviours have power as well as our votes.

Sorry Don, but we are also loving our electric car, even if it does not save the planet we are just enjoying owning and driving it!

Bruce

I quote from a Nature review article.

"Carbonaceous particulate matter (PM), comprising black carbon (BC), primary organic aerosol (POA) and secondary organic aerosol (SOA, from atmospheric aging of precursors), is a highly toxic vehicle exhaust component. Therefore, understanding vehicle pollution requires knowledge of both primary emissions, and how these emissions age in the atmosphere. We provide a systematic examination of carbonaceous PM emissions and parameterisation of SOA formation from modern diesel and gasoline cars at different temperatures (22, −7 °C) during controlled laboratory experiments. Carbonaceous PM emission and SOA formation is markedly higher from gasoline than diesel particle filter (DPF) and catalyst-equipped diesel cars, more so at −7 °C, contrasting with nitrogen oxides (NO_X). Higher SOA formation from gasoline cars and primary emission reductions for diesels implies gasoline cars will increasingly dominate vehicular total carbonaceous PM, though older non-DPF-equipped diesels will continue to dominate the primary fraction for some time. Supported by state-of-the-art source apportionment of ambient fossil fuel derived PM, our results show that whether gasoline or diesel cars are more polluting depends on the pollutant in question, i.e. that diesel cars are not necessarily worse polluters than gasoline cars."

 

Diesel enginesDon Atkinson posted:

 

Anyway, in the grand scheme of things, ditching a few diesel engined cars in Europe over the next 15 years or so, is going to make sod-all difference to global climate change.

When Germany, Poland, China, the USA and a lots more, agree to stop burning coal to generate electricity, and a few more countries start putting climate change agreements into effect, then, and only then, will I resolve to make my next car purchase a petrol one. Otherwise it will be as before - best available choice regardless of petrol or diesel.

 

The objection  to diesel is primarily directly affecting human health through inhaling polluted air, rather than climate change through carbon dioxide emissions. 

 Diesel engines tend to be a lot worse for the former while better for the latter..

I currently have a diesel car bought on much the same basis as you cite your purchase. I am hoping it will last another few years, however when it dies I am highly unlikely to replace with another diesel, because if nothing else I think in the lifetime that I would expect from the car diesel fuel will become harder to obtain, possibly more expensive, and with greater difficulty getting to places I want to go through banning of diesels .

As for my little contribution is insignificant: if everybody applied the same thought then things would never get better. It’s actually needs us all to play out parts and move towards less polluting vehicles preferably not using fossil feels at all.

I am reading this thread with great interest. Living just  a few miles from central London, I need a car to travel to and from the CG area for various reasons. I’ve been reading a lot about the “dreadful” effects of diesel.  I drive a 12 year diesel car which until a year ago passed the emission tests for TFL. Now Im told that  from 08/04/19 I will need a car that complies with the latest  emission tests. It looks like I’ll have to buy(horror-horror!) an electric car. 

But wait! I have also found out that if I buy a three year old diesel, most  passes the Euro 6 emission tests, I will be allowed on the streets of central London without having to pay the £12.50 daily charges. I have also found out that a new Bentley petrol car also qualifies for the dispensation. 

Are they making up these things as they go along?

Tony2011 posted:

I am reading this thread with great interest. Living just  a few miles from central London, I need a car to travel to and from the CG area for various reasons. I’ve been reading a lot about the “dreadful” effects of diesel.  I drive a 12 year diesel car which until a year ago passed the emission tests for TFL. Now Im told that  from 08/04/19 I will need a car that complies with the latest  emission tests. It looks like I’ll have to buy(horror-horror!) an electric car. 

But wait! I have also found out that if I buy a three year old diesel, most  passes the Euro 6 emission tests, I will be allowed on the streets of central London without having to pay the £12.50 daily charges. I have also found out that a new Bentley petrol car also qualifies for the dispensation. 

Are they making up these things as they go along?

Tony ,it is a bit of a minefield I suggest you look up the TFL website also you can get some good info from various Government website.

Generally diesels from 2016 comply. 

Not sure whether they are making it up as they go along or it was on the back of a packet of fags?

Pcd posted:

Tony2011 posted:

I am reading this thread with great interest. Living just  a few miles from central London, I need a car to travel to and from the CG area for various reasons. I’ve been reading a lot about the “dreadful” effects of diesel.  I drive a 12 year diesel car which until a year ago passed the emission tests for TFL. Now Im told that  from 08/04/19 I will need a car that complies with the latest  emission tests. It looks like I’ll have to buy(horror-horror!) an electric car. 

But wait! I have also found out that if I buy a three year old diesel, most  passes the Euro 6 emission tests, I will be allowed on the streets of central London without having to pay the £12.50 daily charges. I have also found out that a new Bentley petrol car also qualifies for the dispensation. 

Are they making up these things as they go along?

Tony ,it is a bit of a minefield I suggest you look up the TFL website also you can get some good info from various Government website.

Generally diesels from 2016 comply. 

Not sure whether they are making it up as they go along or it was on the back of a packet of fags?

I have read most of the material available online and I’ve also sent them an email. At the moment I’m exempt from the CC so there must be a way around it. Let’s wait and see. 

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

Don

'I am not going to do anything because others are worse than me' is justification used by all sorts of people for all sorts of behaviours (I see it in my job all the time). I think it is an excuse for inaction. If everyone shared that view nothing will change, and there is no pressure on govts or corporations to change either. Our purchasing behaviours have power as well as our votes.

Sorry Don, but we are also loving our electric car, even if it does not save the planet we are just enjoying owning and driving it!

Bruce

Hi Bruce,

I'm pleased that you and Mrs W are enjoying your electric car.

However, you're right, it's not going to save the planet. It's probably not even going to send a message to anybody nor put pressure on governments or corporations to change either.

I don't see Germany, Poland, China, Russia, the USA and quite a few others making any changes just because the UK does. In fact, I get the distinct impression that over the past 3 years, these countries have decided to blatantly wave two fingers at the rest of the world and simply do as they please. Both in terms of climate change and in terms of human respect. Now, I agree that to follow their lead in these issues will not solve any problems. But so far as my next car is concerned, If the UK hasn't banned diesels and petrols, then I will chose on the basis of what's available, what's in good condition and what's good value. And unless the electric car market has matured, I won't be including those in my "to try" list.

Sorry !

Don

Cheers Don

I'm sure we are both entirely happy in our various positions and agree to differ. I don't fly other than very infrequently but have not yet put you out of work either!

Cheers

Bruce

Well i'm pleased to be still working !

Passed my medical yesterday so another 6 months lie ahead.

I haven't heard much lately about Easyjets ? planned all-electric A320 ?

Cheers

Don

And for those who consider that an all-electric car future will solve our environmental problems...........

.......that electricity has to be generated and delivered to your house........

Don Atkinson posted:

Well i'm pleased to be still working !

Passed my medical yesterday so another 6 months lie ahead.

I haven't heard much lately about Easyjets ? planned all-electric A320 ?

Cheers

Don

Apparently the delay is due to the length of flex required.

G