Good biggun' always beats a good littlun'?

TOBYJUG posted:

I think that expression " A good biggun' always beats a good littlun'' is mostly applicable when spending big money on a big system for a big room..

6 x 4m is a great size that you could put all sorts of speakers except true big monsters.

Your choice would be good, but there are as you say Floorstanders at the same cost - ideally smallish Floorstanders - that will give you more drive, dynamics and bandwidth

I know the main thing with speakers is that you enjoy the sound but for me they have to look good too, most floorstanders I find to be quite ugly (except for maybe Focal Aria's) I just didn't want to restrict the system with little speakers if I could get more performance from a similarly priced bigger cabinet.

Well, if you think Focal Arias look nice it’s not going to be hard to find something that looks a lot more attractive. 

hungryhalibut posted:

Well, if you think Focal Arias look nice it’s not going to be hard to find something that looks a lot more attractive. 

Harsh ! But ..........

hungryhalibut posted:

steve74 posted:

hungryhalibut posted:

steve74 posted:

Skinnypuppy71 posted:

You definitely need a pre amp to go with the nap 250 dr...it's a standalone power amp...so that plus a nac 282 is in excess of 6k I believe.ouch!.

Yeah just had a quick Google, circa £8000 for the pair. Do shops tend to offer decent discounts with big purchases?!

With a 282/250 you also need a Hicap, so that’s another £1,400. As to discounts, that really is for you to discuss with your dealer. 

So, the 282 is needed as a preamp for the 250, is the hicap a power supply for the 282? If so, none can work without the other?

Yes, that’s right. You’d do well to do some research on Naim’s website and more generally. It will put you in good stead going forward and help to ensure you get what suits your needs. 

Yeah I really am at the beginning of my journey haha! I only live 2 miles from a SSAV so I will be in there demoing different combinations in between researching the web, alot to learn but fun all the same.

hungryhalibut posted:

Well, if you think Focal Arias look nice it’s not going to be hard to find something that looks a lot more attractive. 

Compared to big boxes like PMC's I think the Arias look very curvy and living room friendly, of course the Kante 2's are gorgeous but a little out of my price range! ????

Attractiveness of speakers is matter of taste: I find many of the PMCs, with less front panel area covered by drivers, more attractive than the Arias (as long as a nice wood shade)... But in reality, with the exception of things like B&W, Focal or horn designs speakers a a bit of a muchness- yes, some a bit more attractive, or unattractive than others, depending on your attitude towards the number and size of drivers visible or size and colour of grille, and the finish of the panels. Of course you could always go for best invisibility, as with the intriguing Ferguson Hill FH001...

Can’t begin to imagine what opinion the owners of Focal Arias might have of SL2s.

Timmo1341 posted:

Can’t begin to imagine what opinion the owners of Focal Arias might have of SL2s.

Haha, just googled them .......vile! I guess you are now going to tell me how sumptuous they sound!

What a strange coincidence - I don’t find the SL2s particularly fetching either! I’ve heard a pair, and they sound ok, but, as you can see from my profile, I’m a ProAc fan. Can’t beat nicely finished heavyweight coffins, particularly when they sound divine!

Beauty Is in the eye of the beholder - but choice should be by sound. Great if the two coincide, otherwise unless so ugly as to be totally unbearable, sound quality shout be the driving force - you will get over the looks if they sing to you sweetly every day.

Zipperheadbanjo posted:

Pev posted:

Most Naim dealers are not into discounting although part exchanging can work.

By far the best strategy would be to buy used - 272, 282 and hicap have been unchanged since they were launched and the only issue with the 250 is that there was a DR upgrade a few yeards ago but this is retrofittable. I'd also buy speakers used if you can find the ones you want. I can recommend TomTom Audio as used Naim specialists but most dealers will have some "pre loved" stock.

This is perhaps a North American phenomenon... but I've never met a dealer who sells anything at list "retail" price. Over here they all discount. It's expected. As a general rule... I've found that if you are just paying cash.... you can expect 10-15% off retail... generally if you are trading something in, they charge the full retail price less the negotiated value of the trade in material.

It's a matter of expectation. If the consumer has such a hyped sense of entitlement then it is probably unrealistic to be in business charging the list price when everyone else is discounting. Much easier to ask the supplier to simply inflate the list price by 15% so that you sell at what you really want 

From a marketing perspective automatic discounts have a huge risk. They send a clear message "this product is not worth what we charge for it". That's not something you want to do generally so, as a dealer, if you value the product and think the customer should place some value on the service you provide as a dealer (demonstrating, installing, making up cables etc.) then charging list can work out better. It says "Yup this is the price and it's worth it". Again, it only works if most play by the same rules and the customer has an ounce of respect for the dealer.

I think Naim speakers were designed with no regard to how they looked with the grills off, they were always intended to be used with the grills in place. 

The thing is a good littlun will be considerably cheaper than a good biggun, it only has to compete with a more compromised biggun.

Timmo1341 posted:

What a strange coincidence - I don’t find the SL2s particularly fetching either! I’ve heard a pair, and they sound ok, but, as you can see from my profile, I’m a ProAc fan. Can’t beat nicely finished heavyweight coffins, particularly when they sound divine!

Got to agree with you about the SL2’s , apparently they look their best with the lights off....

Because nothing says chic like strips of Velcro 

Buying speakers that provide long term satisfaction can be quite challenging. There are several aspects to consider.

1. In order to get the best from a system, there needs to be a certain ‘synergy’ between amplifier and speakers.  Dealers are well positioned to tell you which speakers they find best match a particular amplifier.  Speak to several dealers and develop a list of potential candidates

2. Speakers need to match their room and more, they need to harmonise with any positioning restrictions. For example, rear ported speakers don’t do well very near walls so are difficult to optimally position in small rooms.  You’re speaker choice needs to play to the room’s features and the listening position. 

3. The same pair of speakers can range from annoying to sublime depending on how perfectly they are positioned.  Properly positioned, good speakers should provide an extended, accurate and transparent rendition of the music with wide, deep, enveloping soundstage (playing appropriate material of course).  There are 2 approaches here. Take any pair of speakers and let them dictate their optimum position (typically requires a dedicated listening space)  or buy speakers best matched to the room and its positioning constraints (best approach when integrating hi-fi into a living  room).

Your dealer should help you in your initial selection, based on your electronics and description of installation parameters. They should then let you qualify their recommendations with a demo in their demo room.  Once you’ve get the choice down to the best couple, the dealer should help you make your final choice with a home, in-room demo.  All this faffing around is why your dealer needs to make a decent margin.  Typically you pay for high discounts by  way of the level of service you receive. To buy the most satisfying system long term, really good dealer service is a must, especially so if you lack experience in the system selection process. 

Also of relevances if course is how permanent your present listening room is likely to be - it is all very well getting speakers perfectly matched to your room, only to then move home and find a problem! 

It seems that some speakers  are more room sensitive than others. E.g. I’ve had two different models of IMF speakers, the first I used successively in 5 different rooms and heard after in 2 more, the other I had successively in 4 different rooms and they now reside in another. Other than one room that is an odd shape they all sounded great with minimal tweaking of positioning. The odd one out is an odd-shaped room, and it took a complete rearrangement of the room before they sounded right. Hiwever, I have always insisted on a decent size room to use as the music room, the smallest over 8 homes having been 16ftx12ft, the others somewhat larger.

Innocent Bystander posted:

leni v posted:

Also that depends on the kind of music you you listen to.

In my view a good loudspeaker should be capable of playing any music well - however, if your musical taste is limited  to a certain type it is possible you could find speakers whose limitations are irrelevant to that style and so get away with speakers that wouldn’t sound right  with other material.

That may be true until you put on some large scale orchestral music, and that is why I have floor standers. I had Dynaudio Contour S1.4 monitors– a very good loudspeaker, and even with a sub found them lacking for orchestral music. I upgraded those to the floor standing Contour S3.4. Since then I've gone to a second sub and even bigger floor standers.

OTOH, if it weren't for the big symphonic works I like to play I think great monitors would do the job for me (still with my stereo pair of RELs though).

RaceTripper posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

leni v posted:

Also that depends on the kind of music you you listen to.

In my view a good loudspeaker should be capable of playing any music well - however, if your musical taste is limited  to a certain type it is possible you could find speakers whose limitations are irrelevant to that style and so get away with speakers that wouldn’t sound right  with other material.

That may be true until you put on some large scale orchestral music, and that is why I have floor standers. I had Dynaudio Contour S1.4 monitors– a very good loudspeaker, and even with a sub found them lacking for orchestral music. I upgraded those to the floor standing Contour S3.4. Since then I've gone to a second sub and even bigger floor standers.

OTOH, if it weren't for the big symphonic works I like to play I think great monitors would do the job for me (still with my stereo pair of RELs though).

Your response precisely supported what I had said!

A stand mount speaker can go loud but can not produce real scale in a large or even average sized room.

Depends on the

leni v posted:

A stand mount speaker can go loud but can not produce real scale in a large or even average sized room.

Obviously  that depends on the standmount . Real scale is no problem for PMC MB2se !

.Folkman posted:

Depends on the

leni v posted:

A stand mount speaker can go loud but can not produce real scale in a large or even average sized room.

Obviously  that depends on the standmount . Real scale is no problem for PMC MB2se !

Absolutely - a wonderful speaker yet a standmount: - beats any floorstander I have yet heard (Though I’m sure it would be beaten by its own floorstander version, the MB2SEXBD.) And you can get secondhand it ex dem for rather less than its £22k list price. ..

Hiwever, it imagine if would be beaten by its stablemate, the BB5SE, but I declined to audition. 

Ok,very expensive exceptions shurely not what the OP had in mind or budget.

leni v posted:

Ok,very expensive exceptions shurely not what the OP had in mind or budget.

And I bet they are not quite the size often envisaged when people say stand mounts - just the point is that they prove that standmounts can be full range and give effortless scale, so it is not the stand that makes the difference but the size and design.

Innocent Bystander posted:

leni v posted:

Ok,very expensive exceptions shurely not what the OP had in mind or budget.

And I bet they are not quite the size often envisaged when people say stand mounts - just the point is that they prove that standmounts can be full range and give effortless scale, so it is not the stand that makes the difference but the size and design.

I have to side with other pedants here. The PMC IB2se are still standmounts and they are large. But so are Harbeth M40.2 and a variety of other things which have very high performance levels.

By the same token, there are utterly tiny floor standers with 5cm lf drivers. I said myself I prefer a floorstander but even I admit it is a generalisation. Ultimately the size of the speaker and cabinet matter and it isn't as simple as purely floorstander vs. standmount. The word I use in my posts is often "bookshelf speaker" to clarify this.

When we are talking standmount one can understand what we are talking about.This last comments are no use to the OP,  also i think he mentioned a budget