Good biggun' always beats a good littlun'?

Maybe you can Leni V. When I think of standmounts, everything from Briks to IB2se to Kans and everything in between come to mind.

TBut against that, ‘bookshelf’ implies speakers intended to sit on a surface, with beach to wall (or, actually good, effectively in-wall If shelves around the speaker are filled with books (or records, CDs, files, boxes, etc) - but the vast majority of standmounts are not intended for such placement...

Maybe a new term is needed, e’g’ pillar mount - but I doubt anything we might suggest Here would catch on.

To the OP, I doubt this diversion wil have been quite what you expected, but the point it has made, as FZ has said, is that deep bass and ‘scale’ dictate bigger and, to be good at it, more expensive, speakers, whether or not on stands. So if this us what you want of your speakers it is worth the extra time and effort and delay waiting for availability to maximise your buying power by buying secondhand. 

Folkman posted:

Depends on the

leni v posted:

A stand mount speaker can go loud but can not produce real scale in a large or even average sized room.

Obviously  that depends on the standmount . Real scale is no problem for PMC MB2se !

Exactly.. and also the scale from a floor mount entirely depends on the floor mount... for me there are very few floor mounts I have heard that have the accuracy and naturalness iof a good well decoupled stanmount... ... and I think a lot of this is down to floor coupling . I note ATC provide some very large stabdmounts in their professional range that sit on very short decoupling stands.

In very much larger rooms, one is typically not going to need the precision and accuracy of a standmount monitor speaker as one will be listening typically further away, in those circumstances I think floor mounts will almost certainly win out.

But I do agree setting up floor mounts is an awful lot easier than setting up a standmount to work well..

So in the end in my experience, the best speaker will match how close you listen to your monitors. 

Hi all, just a quick update and question. I popped into my local SSAV on Saturday but the main demo room was out of action ( annoyingly as they had all the kit I was interested in on a naim fraim) so I was taken into a smaller room and they hooked up a Nova with some Kef ref 3's soon followed by B&W 706 S2's and then some Focal 906's. Not overly impressed with the nova, although it was just a listen to something while I'm here kind of scenario, I was surprised that I preferred the the other two over the Kef's, considering I'd heard great things about them! Anyway, im going back after Xmas to listen to the seperates system, the guy did say that because I chose predominantly rock music during the demo that I might prefer the NAD MASTERS kit more than the Naim so he's going to set them up side by side for me. My question though is I would like to demo some Dynaudio SP40'S and Contour 20's which they don't stock. Should I mention it to this dealer that I'm gonna go elsewhere to demo these speakers and if I did prefer them is it common to buy your components from one dealer and speakers from another? Would this hamper any deal he might be willing to offer? 

Thank in advance for your comments/ advice.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Folkman posted:

Depends on the

leni v posted:

A stand mount speaker can go loud but can not produce real scale in a large or even average sized room.

Obviously  that depends on the standmount . Real scale is no problem for PMC MB2se !

Exactly.. and also the scale from a floor mount entirely depends on the floor mount... for me there are very few floor mounts I have heard that have the accuracy and naturalness iof a good well decoupled stanmount... ... and I think a lot of this is down to floor coupling . I note ATC provide some very large stabdmounts in their professional range that sit on very short decoupling stands.

In very much larger rooms, one is typically not going to need the precision and accuracy of a standmount monitor speaker as one will be listening typically further away, in those circumstances I think floor mounts will almost certainly win out.

But I do agree setting up floor mounts is an awful lot easier than setting up a standmount to work well..

So in the end in my experience, the best speaker will match how close you listen to your monitors. 

So considering my listening distance will be approx 4 metres from whatever speaker then I'll probably be better off with standmounters? This will probably suit me as most of my short list are standmounters, tomorrow I'm listening to B & W 705 S2's an then some PMC TWENTY5.22's on Friday. Spendor A7's get great reviews and are apparently suited to smaller rooms so I might pop over to Cambridge for a listen to them. Never realised how much travelling would be involved in putting this together!......fun though!

steve74 posted:

So considering my listening distance will be approx 4 metres from whatever speaker then I'll probably be better off with standmounters? This will probably suit me as most of my short list are standmounters, tomorrow I'm listening to B & W 705 S2's an then some PMC TWENTY5.22's on Friday. Spendor A7's get great reviews and are apparently suited to smaller rooms so I might pop over to Cambridge for a listen to them. Never realised how much travelling would be involved in putting this together!......fun though!

I don’t think that is necessarily the case: In optimum position I sit only about 3m from the speakers in a 7m square room, and mine are moderate sized floorstanders.

steve74 posted:

I might pop over to Cambridge for a listen to them. Never realised how much travelling would be involved in putting this together!......fun though!

 

What Cambridge dealer is that ?  Just outside Cambridge is Criterion Audio and they have some great gear, demo rooms and friendly staff. Always stock plenty Naim.

TOBYJUG posted:

steve74 posted:

I might pop over to Cambridge for a listen to them. Never realised how much travelling would be involved in putting this together!......fun though!

 

What Cambridge dealer is that ?  Just outside Cambridge is Criterion Audio and they have some great gear, demo rooms and friendly staff. Always stock plenty Naim.

Yep, that's the shop I'm on about. About an hour's drive for me but that's ok, are you a regular visitor then?

Innocent Bystander posted:

steve74 posted:

So considering my listening distance will be approx 4 metres from whatever speaker then I'll probably be better off with standmounters? This will probably suit me as most of my short list are standmounters, tomorrow I'm listening to B & W 705 S2's an then some PMC TWENTY5.22's on Friday. Spendor A7's get great reviews and are apparently suited to smaller rooms so I might pop over to Cambridge for a listen to them. Never realised how much travelling would be involved in putting this together!......fun though!

I don’t think that is necessarily the case: In optimum position I sit only about 3m from the speakers in a 7m square room, and mine are moderate sized floorstanders.

Oh wow, that puts a different perspective on things, I don't know why but I assumed the bass on floorstanders would be too "boomy" (if that makes sense) in an smaller room but I guess the learning curve is all part of the journey!

steve74 posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

steve74 posted:

So considering my listening distance will be approx 4 metres from whatever speaker then I'll probably be better off with standmounters? This will probably suit me as most of my short list are standmounters, tomorrow I'm listening to B & W 705 S2's an then some PMC TWENTY5.22's on Friday. Spendor A7's get great reviews and are apparently suited to smaller rooms so I might pop over to Cambridge for a listen to them. Never realised how much travelling would be involved in putting this together!......fun though!

I don’t think that is necessarily the case: In optimum position I sit only about 3m from the speakers in a 7m square room, and mine are moderate sized floorstanders.

Oh wow, that puts a different perspective on things, I don't know why but I assumed the bass on floorstanders would be too "boomy" (if that makes sense) in an smaller room but I guess the learning curve is all part of the journey!

In any room a lot will depend on the flexibility you have for positioning, of both the speakers and yourself, and it can sometimes take quite a bit of effect to get right - while the smaller the room the more challenging it sometimes can be. Hopefully you can get to audition at home as a final check after finding what sounds right to you, but if that is not possible then take your present speakers so that you at keast have a reference for comparison.

steve74 posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

steve74 posted:

I might pop over to Cambridge for a listen to them. Never realised how much travelling would be involved in putting this together!......fun though!

 

What Cambridge dealer is that ?  Just outside Cambridge is Criterion Audio and they have some great gear, demo rooms and friendly staff. Always stock plenty Naim.

Yep, that's the shop I'm on about. About an hour's drive for me but that's ok, are you a regular visitor then?

 

Excellent dealer - really good with LP12s too ...

There is no complex science behind it all ... just get a good un - wether big or small.   And Wether is the correct grammatical nomenclature for those awesome pedants on this forum - as it is dependant on how high and keen these young goats can get that bleet and hoof scaling those big mountains.

TOBYJUG posted:

There is no complex science behind it all ... just get a good un - wether big or small.   And Wether is the correct grammatical nomenclature for those awesome pedants on this forum - as it is dependant on how high and keen these young goats can get that bleet and hoof scaling those big mountains.

Err what? Have you been drinking? I didn't understand any of that.

feeling_zen posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

There is no complex science behind it all ... just get a good un - wether big or small.   And Wether is the correct grammatical nomenclature for those awesome pedants on this forum - as it is dependant on how high and keen these young goats can get that bleet and hoof scaling those big mountains.

Err what? Have you been drinking? I didn't understand any of that.

TOBYJUG posted:

There is no complex science behind it all ... just get a good un - wether big or small.   And Wether is the correct grammatical nomenclature for those awesome pedants on this forum - as it is dependant on how high and keen these young goats can get that bleet and hoof scaling those big mountains.

Can I have some of whatever’s ever you’re having!

Wether - a horny but frustrated mountain billy goat.

TOBYJUG posted:

Wether - a horny but frustrated mountain billy goat.

Does anyone know where TJ lives? He might be having a stroke and hitting random keys for help.

Dear Richard (or whoever the current moderator is),

as I expected, my post has been removed. For your information, it was not a coded message to instruct on how to build an atomic bomb but a comment to the OP's original post in my own regional dialect. That's it. But, I know that only the English language is admitted on this forum: in fact, not later than a few days ago a very respectable, and unsuspected forum member has seen his innocent post to a fellow countryman deleted because it was not readable by everyone. At this point, I answer reminding you that:

a) this is an English forum but is open to people from around the world, and everyone has a right to understand what is posted;

b) the caption itself of this post was vernacular or dialectal and could be understood, no doubt, but it was not universal English;

c) I have read posts from foreign members in a perfect English but much more frequently I have had to machete my way through posts by native English gentlemen written in an English language with such indecent grammar, syntax, wrong spelling and total lack of punctuation that I, in your place, would have moderated them. This forum is read by people all around the world. I would have been ashamed to publish such illiterate crap.

This obviously means that

d) English people can write what they want drawing freely from dialectal or vernacular expressions, but to us 'foreigners' is required to know and use Elisabeth's British. Here we are beyond BREXIT: here we are in simple British snobbery and opinionatedness, in pure islander patronizing. Why didn't you feel the need to ask me what I had written? You know me well enough to know that I would hardly smuggle ISIS propaganda or foul language. You simply censored me, and it is not the first time.

Hence, I formally ask to be not moderated, but banned, and I ask you to be so kind to proceed to do it without forcing me to furnish explicit reasons for it.

Thanks for the good time occasionally spent here.

Massimo

Massimo, and this said tongue firmly in cheek, maybe the thing to do was follow the time-honoured way so many British people do when a foreign person diesn’t understand English:  simply repeat the same thing louder (in other words print it in capital letters).

Shameful I know - but indeed so is some of the language to which you refer.

Err, not sure what's going on here then?!

Anyway, back to topic. Today I've auditioned Some B&W 705 S2's and 805 D3's plus some KEF R5's. Now the 805's were lovely but too pricey, however to my ears the KEFS were on the same level, if not better due to a fuller soundstage. This was my first experience of floorstanders and it has changed my mind now about preferring a stoundmount! ???? Especially as the KEFS were less than half the price of the 805's I just could not justify the extra money. ( Diminishing returns and all that) So, can you good people maybe suggest some floorstanders in the region of 2.5k that would give the KEFS a run for their money?

Massimo Bertola posted:

Dear Richard (or whoever the current moderator is),

as I expected, my post has been removed. For your information, it was not a coded message to instruct on how to build an atomic bomb but a comment to the OP's original post in my own regional dialect. That's it. But, I know that only the English language is admitted on this forum: in fact, not later than a few days ago a very respectable, and unsuspected forum member has seen his innocent post to a fellow countryman deleted because it was not readable by everyone. At this point, I answer reminding you that:

a) this is an English forum but is open to people from around the world, and everyone has a right to understand what is posted;

b) the caption itself of this post was vernacular or dialectal and could be understood, no doubt, but it was not universal English;

c) I have read posts from foreign members in a perfect English but much more frequently I have had to machete my way through posts by native English gentlemen written in an English language with such indecent grammar, syntax, wrong spelling and total lack of punctuation that I, in your place, would have moderated them. This forum is read by people all around the world. I would have been ashamed to publish such illiterate crap.

This obviously means that

d) English people can write what they want drawing freely from dialectal or vernacular expressions, but to us 'foreigners' is required to know and use Elisabeth's British. Here we are beyond BREXIT: here we are in simple British snobbery and opinionatedness, in pure islander patronizing. Why didn't you feel the need to ask me what I had written? You know me well enough to know that I would hardly smuggle ISIS propaganda or foul language. You simply censored me, and it is not the first time.

Hence, I formally ask to be not moderated, but banned, and I ask you to be so kind to proceed to do it without forcing me to furnish explicit reasons for it.

Thanks for the good time occasionally spent here.

Massimo

Hi Max - as I cannot see the deleted post it’s not possible for me to come to any conclusion about what’s going on. However, I very much hope you don’t depart the forum. I much enjoy your posts - both for your Italian perspective and for your personal originality.

BW

Clive

Max, you know the rules (or at least you should do by now).  For clarity, I will post the relevant part here - Note that for widest comprehension, posts here should be written in English and any posts in other languages may be moderated.

If you don't like the rules, take issue with my moderation, or you have decided to again leave the forum then you can just email me - you have my email address. Otherwise, if you'd rather not get in touch then anyone can even remove themselves from the forum these days.  I'm not entirely sure why the choice of a public grandstand.

Cdb posted:

Massimo Bertola posted:

Dear Richard (or whoever the current moderator is),

as I expected, my post has been removed. For your information, it was not a coded message to instruct on how to build an atomic bomb but a comment to the OP's original post in my own regional dialect. That's it. But, I know that only the English language is admitted on this forum: in fact, not later than a few days ago a very respectable, and unsuspected forum member has seen his innocent post to a fellow countryman deleted because it was not readable by everyone. At this point, I answer reminding you that:

a) this is an English forum but is open to people from around the world, and everyone has a right to understand what is posted;

b) the caption itself of this post was vernacular or dialectal and could be understood, no doubt, but it was not universal English;

c) I have read posts from foreign members in a perfect English but much more frequently I have had to machete my way through posts by native English gentlemen written in an English language with such indecent grammar, syntax, wrong spelling and total lack of punctuation that I, in your place, would have moderated them. This forum is read by people all around the world. I would have been ashamed to publish such illiterate crap.

This obviously means that

d) English people can write what they want drawing freely from dialectal or vernacular expressions, but to us 'foreigners' is required to know and use Elisabeth's British. Here we are beyond BREXIT: here we are in simple British snobbery and opinionatedness, in pure islander patronizing. Why didn't you feel the need to ask me what I had written? You know me well enough to know that I would hardly smuggle ISIS propaganda or foul language. You simply censored me, and it is not the first time.

Hence, I formally ask to be not moderated, but banned, and I ask you to be so kind to proceed to do it without forcing me to furnish explicit reasons for it.

Thanks for the good time occasionally spent here.

Massimo

Hi Max - as I cannot see the deleted post it’s not possible for me to come to any conclusion about what’s going on. However, I very much hope you don’t depart the forum. I much enjoy your posts - both for your Italian perspective and for your personal originality.

BW

Clive

I too would like you to stay Max - you remind me of my time spent living in Calabria

Clive,

I'm not sure what exactly an 'Italian perspective is', but I'll take it as a positive thing. Thanks anyway.

Richard,

as per the part in italics, I am sure it hasn't always been so. Some things have been left, some have been removed. But it doesn't matter. You know (or you should know by now) that I know the rules and respect them always unless I violate some unwillingly. My point was not why I have been moderated, but a more general one, about the way some seem to completely despise and ignore the capacity of a large public to understand what they write. Once there was a guy named Adam who took some pain to correct or at least tease the most unreadable posts, but he must be very tired by now – as I suspect you are too. I really wish I could find and include here some posts of the past to corroborate your idea of 'widest comprehension'...   As for the possibility to remove oneself, I didn't know it and I kindly ask you to indicate to me where I can read the procedure to do so. For the rest, I have nothing personal with you at all, and you know it. I am not happy to have done what you see as a 'public grandstand' because I imagine that the expression is not encomiastic. But the faculty to have the last word, and use it sharply, is irresistible and I acknowledge this to you easily, and with no bad feelings at all.

YNWA250505 (It's strange to address someone who is apparently named after a Panasonic stereo from the late 60s),

I don't know if I am happy to be associated with Calabria, but again I'll do my best to take it as a gentle word.

Best to all,

M.