Nice Photos.

Does setting a camera to B&W work better than using Picasa/photoshop to convert to B&W? Also does shooting in RAW take a better photo or does it only give more flexibility when using photoshop?  

More flexibility.

If you are willing to put work into post processing, its better to convert to B&W there. The image contains more data and in combination with richer software, gives you more options for the end result. Though there are borderline cases where you might consider using B&W mode - difficult lighting conditions where burning out in separate color channels is a problem.

RAW certainly does not take "better photos", but then again it does Think of RAW vs. JPEG as lossless vs. lossy in audio-files. Though the problem is that to get a final picture, *you* have to massage the RAW file [deciding on parameters etc] whereas with JPEG the camera does this automatically for you and possibly better

Right, the RAW image contains more data for you to engineer an image to your own personal satisfaction. The most useful issue I find is to have much more flexibility over exposure/lighting.

Different pieces of software engineer it differently. My personal favourite is Sigma's, which came with my DP1s but can be downloaded from their site, though it seems to work at its absolute best with their own camera software.

Drop a big card into your camera though...Compare the file sizes between a RAW image and a JPEG and you'll get the idea. Bit like HiRes vs. CD/MP3.

If you're converting to B&W, then I also think it's better to shoot RAW.

I only ever shoot in RAW and I'm increasingly using B&W these days. It eats up cards (each RAW DNG image from the Leica comes out at over 18 meg, 36 if you use uncompressed DNG) but it gives you much more flexibility and freedom - especially using Adobe's excellent Lightroom photo software or Silver Efex Pro to convert your pics.

I have to say that the M9's JPEG engine isn't fantastic and, when you have one of the world's best (if most idiosyncratic) cameras why not use it to its full potential?

It's a bit like having a fully rigged LP12 but but choosing to play your records on a £50 Bush turntable.

Kevin, that is exactly what I do with my M9 - 18MB Raws, Lightroom or Silver Efex Pro. 

I have also set my M9 up so that I take colour RAWS and a B&W jpg as one of my menu settings - it is the B&W jpg I see displayed on my camera when shooting, so it gives me a good feel what the shot will look like in B&W. 

Any thoughts on getting the new M Monochrom? 

Adrian - would love one if I won the Lottery, but I have to confess that the new APO Summicron 50mm lens interests me even more - but at £5,400 I fear it's only a dream.

I'm hoping to see Brett at the Leica Akademie next month and I know he has an MM so maybe he'll let me have a play...

Click to see in higher res...

Yep, it's nice but it would be pretty hard to justify for the few photos I get the chance to take and I would somehow miss the colour opportunities. Yes that Summicron looks nice but I cannot see how it is justified when you can get a 50 Summilux for half that price.

Enjoy your session with Brett. I have been to see him twice now and it is great fun. He really knows his stuff and takes some wonderful photos. He has some wonderful slideshows. I loved one he let me take home of his photos taken a few years ago at the Goodwood Revival  - this was what inspired me to buy the camera - just wish I could achieve what he does with it. Look out for the little little Naim rig hidden away upstairs in the lecture room at the Mayfair store.

I have also bagged myself a cheap flight and hotel to go see Photokina this year in Cologne. Thought it would be interesting to see what is new out there and maybe Leica will announce something exciting......

Lucky you! I wonder if we'll be seeing an M10? If I can rustle up the cash and spare the time I would love to go too...

I've been to Mayfair once before - and yes, I noticed the Naim rig. Brett is great (and you're right, he's a great photographer too). I'd only got my M9 a week previously and didn't know really what to do with it - it was intimidating after using DSLRs that do everything for you but Brett gave me the confidence I needed.

He also taught me the most important thing - "see" the picture before you even lift the camera to your eye. Heather is great fun too. Leica is a super company, very like Naim in many respects.

I doubt very much it does it better. Although it may depend on the make of camera, it's certainly not the case with a canon. It's not the fact that the conversion is lossy, it's the other modification made by the camera's software that's the problem.

Below are 4 jpegs created from the same RAW file.

Picasa

Photoshop

Canon Software

40D Software

Originally Posted by bhaagensen:

RAW certainly does not take "better photos", but then again it does Think of RAW vs. JPEG as lossless vs. lossy in audio-files. Though the problem is that to get a final picture, *you* have to massage the RAW file [deciding on parameters etc] whereas with JPEG the camera does this automatically for you and possibly better

What I meant was that each individual may or may not be capable of doing the conversion better - its certainly as easy to ruin a perfectly fine exposure You're right in that if the camera always produced the best [or desired] jpeg, then one couldn't care less about the looseness, but it is a problem as soon as you want to change anything [and this does not have to be because you're "unhappy" about the picture] - perhaps you even want several versions of the same exposure.   

Anyway I think we answered Snipers question. I'll just add to that that I recommend he get some software and have a try. Use JPEGs and RAWs and play with the settings. If you like this better you have earned a lot of flexibility and the capability of producing the best images possible from your exposure. Otherwise your modern camera is probably likely to produce perfectly acceptable images most of the time with a lot less work for you. 

Click to see in better quality or to find out more...

Lost in Space

Many thanks for all your answers chaps and especially to fatcat for the examples of different software solutions.