Shell 'Optimax'

"There is nothing better than overtaking a quick car on the outside of a roundabout when turning right!!"

Surely driving safely and responsibly with due care and attention to the safety of others would be better?

Matthew

Of course it is!

I drive with due care and attention at all times and obey the highway code as any good driver does.



NB

quote:

---

I drive with due care and attention at all times and obey the highway code as any good driver does.

---

except when speeding around the outside of 'quick' cars on roundabouts?

Who said anything about speeding?? I stick within the speed limits at all times. I just get there quicker!!

NB

quote:

---

There is nothing better than overtaking a quick car on the outside of a roundabout when turning right!!

---

quote:

---

Who said anything about speeding?? I stick within the speed limits at all times. I just get there quicker!!

---

so in fact you're not overtaking 'quick' cars at all - after all, how can they be 'quick' if they're driving below the speed limit?
So what exactly was the point of your first post then? Hardly a great achievement.
Of course if you had any real talent you'd be able to outrun superior machinery on track

NB goes back to smoking his pipe and sitting in his armchair with his favorite slippers on!!

quote:

---

NB goes back to smoking his pipe and sitting in his armchair with his favorite slippers on!!

---

don't you know that smoking will kill you!

btw jokes aside, have you driven the supra on a track?

Seriously now, yes I have driven my Supra on the track. One of the best experiences of my life.

I have spent four years on upgrading my Supra, not just the engine but the brakes and suspension and electronics as well.

I had some fun and overtook some very fast cars, got overtaken by some even quicker cars. In the back of my mind though was one slip and my car would be written of, so I could have gone a bit quicker.

One thing that really surprised me was I thought I was a decent driver but some of the more experienced drivers made me look slow.

NB

quote:

---

Originally posted by NB:

One thing that really surprised me was I thought I was a decent driver but some of the more experienced drivers made me look slow.

---

For 'Experienced' I think you can also substitute 'Crazy Motherfucker'. Anyway, you are a thirtysomething accountant.. I guess you had more to lose than most if it all went horribly wrong at 150mph. Don't worry about it.

-A-

quote:

---

In the back of my mind though was one slip and my car would be written of, so I could have gone a bit quicker

---

Yep, funny how that works. Of course if you're driving someone elses car the thought never enters your mind

quote:

---

For 'Experienced' I think you can also substitute 'Crazy Motherfucker'.

---

have to disagree there. I'm was more relaxed being driven around a track by a professional driver than with the average muppet out on public roads. There's no craziness, they're just very smooth, precise and have excellent car control.

I have to agree with you. I have had professional training for both speed and safety. The drivers who were overtaking me were just in a different league and could maintain a higher average track speed.

They were not "crazy motherfuckers" and their car control was just unbelievable.


Regards

NB

I wasn't talking out the professionals who offer tuition. I was referring to the crazy mutha's who take their hot-hatches/sooped-up sports cars out for track days.

I've seen a few 'hot' laps where the car and driver have been on the edge putting in a fast time only to have it all end in a crumpled mess next lap around.

Makes me chuckle every time

-A-

quote:

---

I've seen a few 'hot' laps where the car and driver have been on the edge putting in a fast time only to have it all end in a crumpled mess next lap around.

---

at least they're smart enough to be doing that on the track rather than on public roads.

I totally agree with you John.. No point crashing in heroic style and have everyone miss it is there ?

I've seen some fantastic attempts by hot-hatch drivers at trying to take Duffers Dip at Knockhill by cartwheeling or barrel-rolling instead of braking and turning right.

-A-

This raises the question, do people watch motor sports for the racing or for the crashes?

Regards

NB

..then it's the first corner pile ups that are the highlight of the 'race'. The rest is boring. Touring car racing has the best of both worlds - racing and crashing/bumping. Marvelous!

Steve

Touring cars here in the UK are slow and boring. If you think F1 is processional......
The engines sound flat.
Tony

Johan R I hope you don't have a Vodafone mobile?

Regards

Howard

...then try watching NASCAR. Billy-Joe Bob and his beer buddies driving an endless loop for 200 miles. The biggest giggle is when they do a pit stop and think that 1 minute is a really fast time for tires.

Best Regards,
Mark Dunn

All that excitement in one minute, how do you handle it??

NB

NB,

I have it on good authority (Toyota engineering) that none of their transmissions will handle anything near 450bhp (or more correctly the likely torque levels associated with that hp level). According to them they are pushing the limits with certain of their unofficial industry hp race contenders.

As you didn't mention it, what has been done to yours to prevent it from poping its cogs.

Craig

As an auto engineer working for UK's leading consultancy I think there are a few things people should know. I hope I'm not being patronising but people's safety could be a risk. I hope that fellow Naimee, BMW's Mr. O'Reilly, will chip in as well if he's looking in.
1. In the EU, you should only notice a benefit on higher RON fuels if your manufacturer has calibrated the engine knock control system to a higher RON. If it is calibrated to 95 RON only you will see no benefit, because calibrations are conducted with reference grade fuel (i.e. where 95=95) as opposed to pump fuel which varies from station-station and winter-summer but is usually 95-97 RON. HOWEVER, some manfacturers (& I started this trend in a previous company I worked for) calibrate to 98 RON and let the knock control system correct the engine torque to avoid sustained knock, but tell the owners to use "95 RON minimum". In this case you should notice a difference in performance using 97+ fuels. If you have a recent model and are interested, check your handbook for recommended RON fuels or email me at rali@ricardo.NOSPAM.com and I will try and find out for you. For the previous Mini-owning respondant, I think the new Mini Cooper S was calibrated at 98 RON and standard Cooper was 95 RON, but I have to check (the final calibration was done in my company).
2. Having said that, day-day variations in atomospheric temperature, pressure and humidity will have an equivalent effect in changes in engine output in most gasoline non-boosted cars. Cool ambient temperatures, high barometric pressures and damp conditions will "increase" the output of your engines noticeably.
3. Giving you engine a regular thrashing, after the engine is warmed up, will do more wonders for cleaning your valves than Shell Optimax! Sceptical as I am of such fuels (I'm with Dev on this one), using the best quality lubrication (of appropriate grade) is definitely recommended if you are like spirited driving and want a powertrain that lasts. Modern engines will generally benefit from fully-synthetic oils.
4. I suspect that items 2 & 3 probably accounted for the respondants who said Shell Optimax made a big difference, especially the respondant who he took his Alfa to Scotland. But I may be wrong, because I wasn't there.
5. MBTE is foul stuff. The USA are on the right track and the EU generally follows legislative developments the USA with respect to gasoline vehicles. Why do you think that forecourt attendants are largely a thing of the past? It's not just efficiency...it's also having an eye towards health of employees and (cynically) potential future litigation.
6. Mr. Best is right. But the ramifications are more serious. If you insist in "upgrading" your engine management systems to boost your performance, PLEASE remember that manufacturers are now running their engines to the limit anyway with respect key pressure, vibrationally & thermally loaded components (valves, pistons, con-rods, bearings, crankshafts, gaskets, pipework & ancilliaries etc.) so don't go chipping your car and expect it to be durable - especially if it's a newish one. Older engines were quite possibly "over-engineered" with respect to pressure loaded components. This also goes equally IF NOT MORE for the transmission & drivetrain for any vintage vehicle. If your transmissions & driveshafts are rated and tested to a certain performance level (as is economically necessary), don't go expecting them to last if your torque output is increased. Factors of safety in engine components are usually 1.2 to about 1.7+ depending upon the component and manufacturer. But manufacturers may make components run closer to the bone on cars where the chances of using the max limits (of unchipped engines) are rare. I've seen too many bent con-rods, destroyed piston, detached valve heads, and fires due oil/fuel pipe failures from ALL grades of manufacturers to sit quietly by.

Cheers

Rana

[This message was edited by Rana Ali on SUNDAY 27 October 2002 at 10:15.]

I believe that Toyota UK know very little about the Supra Turbo. The only dealers that will service it will also be Lexus dealers. They were the only outlets allowed to sell it.

Getting a reliable 450bhp out the three litre twin turbo engine is trivial. You just need to raise the boost pressure from the standard .8 bar to ~1.3 bar. (Although you should do something about keeping exhaust gas temperatures at a sensible level. Front mounted intercooler and/or water injection are the obvious solutions.)

There are several ways of getting this sort of power, cheaply by removing the cats in the stock exhaust system, more expensively by using electronic controls. Of course the fuelling has to be corrected when doing this, because the standard ECU and fuel system can really only handle upto 1 bar.

Regarding the gearbox being able to handle this sort of abuse. The supra has either a six speed getrag, or a four speed auto. The German getrag box is known for its strength, and the auto is electronically protected. Temperature, pressure etc are monitored by an ECU and if anything should go outside limits, the ECU will reduce the power output of the engine accordingly. It’s also got a water/oil intercooler, for the gearbox, fitted as standard.

I’ve heard the supra really is quite a beast. I recon the chap at Toyota engineering that Craig was talking to was referring to the current range of cars. I wouldn’t expect a Corrolo or Yaris gearbox to handle that sort of power

If for instance the ECU had been replaced by an aftermarket unit (probably Japanese, as that’s where most of them come from) then you may well see a significant power increase when using Optimax. The ECU would have to be reset so it could ‘relearn’ the knock threshold etc. As it is most standard spec Supra owners see some increase when using it.

I do agree with more modern engines being run close to the limits, but he JZA80 Supra engine appears to be seriously over engineered, and can reliably handle these sort of upgrades.

Hope this helps

Mike.

I am still using the standard gearbox, however I have upgraded the clutch to
a dual friction model that will handle 600 bhp.

I use a company called Torque Developments in Essex and thear MD Mark
Catchpole is the country's leading expert on Toyota Supra's. I have used his
expertese in every stage of the development on my Supra and he assures me
that my gearbox will handle the additional horsepower.

However due to the age of the car and development in gearbox technology the
gearbox is the next modification I will make. Yet at ten thousand for a new
gearbox I have to decide whether it is worth it. For that kind of money I
could purchase a new 300 and SL2's for my system.

The biggest problem with the Supra is the reliability of the standard head
gasket. It is easy for the head gasket to fail on the standard 230 bhp
Supra. I have had mine fail at a steady seventy on the M1 returning from
Sheffield before I started to modify my car. This resulted in a steel
headgasket with an enlarged cylinder head, larger air intake and larger
exhaust with new camshafts. Not only did this lead to an increase of
approximately 50-70 bhp but it improved the reliability of the engine and
started me of on the modification route.

I have not just increased the engines bhp, I have improved the brakes,
handling and transmission. I have also increased the reliability and safety
of the car. I now have a very powerful car that is very reliable, very safe
and great fun to drive.

Regards

NB