HDX is here - GFFJ your prayers answered.

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In speaking with our CI channel partners and sales reps, we have decided to leave these recommendations up the the discretion of the experienced installer, within the context of other electrical requirements for an installation.

It is commonly-accepted wisdom within the CI channel that plasma displays ABSOLUTELY benefit from and require a dedicated circuit with a proper UPS to protect the panel drive electronics; likewise, it would be exceptionally difficult to argue against a UPS for network-attached storage devices.

Naim servers (including the HDX player) use a separate switching power supply for the computer hardware within (low-power mainboard, hard-disk drives, DVD drive), which will of course drop voltage pretty quickly during a brown- or blackout–installation of a basic UPS for server products (in which the emphasis is on network performance, not local-zone output sound quality) is fairly simple to implement and does not require an imprimatur for the average, smart CI installer.

For those who might be concerned that a UPS might affect the sound quality of the local zone output, the HDX player, when used with an XPS2 or 555PS for the analog circuits and a UPS for the computing electronics, offers the best performance and reliability–as such, we will not be auditioning power conditioning devices on the basis on sound quality.

It could be argued that a dedicated circuit for the UPS might benefit in this regard, but it is far too early in the game to discuss.

Dave,

It is also accepted good practice within the CI channel to use voltage regulation/UPS products on any DVR or music server. Especially given the drastic drop in grid AC quality across the country post Enron.

I must strongly disagree about leaving recommendations up to the channel. It should be NaimNetUSA's responsibility to define a clear reference guide for Naim music server installations as regards voltage regulation/UPS products. Whilst it make sense not to favor one brand over another I do believe a detailed spec is called for. I only see one AC connector on the HDX - so your answer is to tell your channel partners and US customers to recommend/ spend another $5600 to almost $10,350 US retail to add an XPS2 or 555PS to avoid any potential sound quality issues deriving from using a voltage regulation/UPS product on a naked HDX - really?

Shouldn't NaimNetUSA take the time and make the small investment to suss all of this out? Every dealer and distributor I know thinks the same way.

Nick

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Originally posted by AllenB:
Al of that goes away with an SSD drive.

as well as storage space. ssd drives aren't available with these capacities right now. and don't forget the immense costs of these drives.

i. e. here you have to pay about eur 1.300 for 64(!) GB.

Interesting price point £4500,it seems to be aimed at Linn's Akurate DS which is £1000 cheaper with no internal storage/ripper drive. However £1000 buys a lot of NAS/ ripper drive if you haven't already got something in house.

It will be an interesting A-B source comparison in a few months

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Originally posted by Mickyblueyes:
However £1000 buys a lot of NAS/ ripper drive if you haven't already got something in house.

don't forget the ripping software/know how. i doubt eac and the like produce the same ripping quality.

I agree with AllenB and I'm glad to see Dave isonboard. There are various different threads going on know and all are dealing with the same issues, but from an different initial starting point. Bottom-line IMHO, Naim should let the user determine the storage medium and provide the software to be used on computer, handheld whatever. The ripping program for wav files will then direct this to your NAS and you stream to your unit from the remote site. I recently commented in the forum "Enough Already..." that Naim has introduced 3 products in the last 12 months SN, Naimnet (NS01, NNP01), and now HDx which all appear to be dancing around the issue and not tackling it head on of an audiophile ethernet connect DAC with digital input for 3rd party application (CD, Sonos/SB)and user friendly interface. I'm intrigued by NNP 01 as a ethernet connected integrated system, but you need to purchase the Server series to have it work which would not be the issue with software based control via the PC. From where I stand now for my main system I really wan t the high quality ethernet connected DAC, for my second sytem for upgrades NNP01 would be a solution if I didn't need the server. Again, I see alot of product and everything is dancing around what I consider to be most individuals needs.

I believe SSD's are too expensive
A 250Gb currently retails for £5,000.
To get approx 800Gb (as per HDX) would add £16,000 to the build cost (not retail).
(approx £25 per CD to store)

You can get a 64Gb for only £600 (http://www.futurestorage.co.uk)

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Am I being thick

Yes, thick. SSD flash storage is still expensive but not impossible, someday–it, too, has to be thermally accommodated.

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dancing around the issue and not tackling it head on of an audiophile ethernet connect DAC with digital input for 3rd party application (CD, Sonos/SB)and user friendly interface.

Not sure that this type of product has been clarified from the perspective of features...after all, if you're talking uPnP you still need to configure a server, etc.–and forget about the user interface, you'd need something to manage...what?

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Originally posted by michael1702:

quote:

Originally posted by Mickyblueyes:
However £1000 buys a lot of NAS/ ripper drive if you haven't already got something in house.

don't forget the ripping software/know how. i doubt eac and the like produce the same ripping quality.

Ripfactory's Ripserver stuff that Linn dealers seem to recommend are fine, and there are several other solutions both hardware and software that can do it just as well without much research. £1000 is a lot of money for 400gb Nas storage/ripper.

I just think it will be an interesting comparison, and as far as 'paying' for the knowledge/ripping quality- fine if you are happy to do that, I am happy to do my own research and not be tied in to one solution. For me it will be the sound quality that decides...period.

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:
Look, I'm not suggesting as big a SSD drive as you can get, I daresay a 16GB unit would be ample to contain the Naim software. Furthermore, by the time these units hit the streets (I have seen August mentioned) 64 GB SSD drives will be nearer the £200 mark.

All ripping of CD's and downloaded music goes to a simple raid disk array (most likely) remote from the HDX unit.

Regards

Allen

EXACTLY! That is what would be great, in a perfect world. The Naim software is on SSD and the music/data in on a spinning disk. Like you, I would preffer not to use the internal drives at all. Maybe just to facilitate an accurate rip of the CD, then move the file off to the external storage.
You might note, I brought this up several posts ago. Based on what I am reading, it looks like the Naim software is on one the HD's. That is weird as I bet that if one cracked open a HDX, it would look a lot like a mini-itx motherboard. I currently have a NAS that is running a fan-less Mini-ITX setup, with the NAS OS on a 16 GB SSD connected to the IDE, while the HD's are linked via a sata multiplier. I have 4 1 TG drives in the current box, but have the capacity to for up to 20 (or 25). That will of course require another box and another power supply.

It would appear that Naim concedes that 400GB is not going to be enough for most, that is why you can add an external NAs. However, there are some like my parents who would walk away from this product in a second if you told them they needed as NAS etc... I think NAIM had to make something that would work for the great number. T

David, I know I owe you a call but I am in a place I can type, but not talk...!

Agreed–if your OS/control footprint is small enough.

However, for many people, 400GB is enough, which allows the product (range) to function as an end-to-end solution. This is not the case with streaming-only products, which require a whole level of configuration before a single note comes out–fine for you and me, but not for all.

(One could actually rip discs without ANY network connection, then go out to the 'Net for queued metadata requests once a connection is established.)

I'm sure the Naim(Net) guys have given this idea some thought, though....wait and see.

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A little bit like DVD5 and n-Vi owners (myself included) locked into playing SD dvd's when more was promised (not necessarily explicitly). So I bought an n-Vi and i love what it does, I'd love it a whole lot more if it could easily upgraded to cope with HD and BR.

How much would you be willing to pay for that capability?

Or would a re-designed, brand-new platform make more sense from a performance and reliability perspective?

(BTW, I'm not sure I understand what you're implying about the DVD5/n-Vi–I was never under the impression that'd be upgradeable to HD-DVD or Blu-ray, but that a scaler card would eventually come. Do you know something I don't?)

Mr. Underhill,

The fact that I didn't even know what *mirrored* HD meant, I am not even ready for this thing.

I don't even understand all the language used when ppl. start talking about computer audio.

I work with my mac everyday, and I don't trust its robustness and reliability one bit. I suppose that's the scary thing about a HD based anything. ( back up or not, things always fail )

A CD player is like a mini-computer, so every now and then I have to reboot. I'm fine with that level of maintenance and complexity.

As for a storage space, I assumed you can add on after market external HDs.

As Sector 52 mentioned, I would guess that a level of noise and vibration would be higher opposed to say, a CD555.
A HD based *transport* is very good actually ( I was surprised when compared to other stand alone CD transports ) but given that a head unit of CD555 was a significant improvements over a CDS3's head unit, I am curious how Naim will close the gap.

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With all of the different settings available who is to say that Naims settings are the right ones?

Gregg,

It's a guess that Naim will set the best setting based on their sonic priority. ( hopefully )
I have gone through this rip procedures and I gotta tell you, I have NO desire to futz there.

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Have you heard the Klimax DS?

Nope. But if they retained Linn's current house sound on digital playback, I doubt this is not something I would be interested in.

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Linns settings with EAC and Ripstation software sounded pretty good to me. There user interface, on the other hand, needs to be completely reworked.

I don't doubt it. The user interface on various ripping method with custom settings were unbelievably cumbersome. I've ripped all mine using an external CD drive (Yamaha was recommended by geek friends ) using iTune which yielded a decent rip compared to PC based ripping with some sort of EAC software.

A friend sent over a Mac equivalant EAC software and, omfg, that was so painful to use. After a few rips, I've settled on the stanard iTune ripping. ( so much easier )

Now this is about 5 years ago. The things might have moved on now, but I see it is just as geeky as 5 years ago.

A simple HDX box seems to be a perfect thing for someone who wants to have a turn-key operation for a computer based music playback with a 'Naim sound' in mind.

Give it a shot in the Home Theatre forum–cogent, reasonable suggestions are rare, and who'd pass up the opportunity?

quote:

Originally posted by AllenB:
Personally I feel it's uneccessarily over-priced, because at that level I would want the resultant experience to be as least as good as my CDS3.

Regards

Allen

Allen,
I agree with most of your post but let's not forget the respective price points and functionality of an HDX and the CDS3 (which won't function without an external PS).
Huw

Agreed - it seemed slightly harder than a bare CDX2 without a PS but the addition of the PS put it somewhere between the X2 and S3 in tone. But that was at a Hi-Fi show. If the same holds true in a better acoustic environment then things could be interesting.

Hope to have another listen tomorrow, today if it rains this afternoon.

Huw

AllenB - if you haven't see the thread on "Why now HDD"-- the comments towards the end are addressing some isssues touched upon here, especially what appears to be the Naim philosophy with the all in one HDx and the direction others are going with separates for DAC, intermediary, and NAS. Interesting take. I have real concerns over the computer incorporated into the music device and the inherent problems with service etc... Wonder what Naim's next HD product will be if at all on the lower priced end this is too $$ for me.

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I have real concerns over the computer incorporated into the music device and the inherent problems with service etc...

Leave that to the manufacturer / distributor to sort out for you–that's what a warranty is for. (You're lucky enough to be within an hour's drive of us anyway.)

Dave, you recognized me!! My initial discussion with you 2 weeks ago spurred me on to do some more research as I await arrival of the new products. Since your so close I might just have to drive over to Niles one afternoon and discuss all of this with you!

If you can find me.

Nice looking unit!

quote:

Originally posted by robert-:
Cheep nasty looking tray. I bet the unit is noisy when its running.apple sorry, naim going for convenience over sound quality, and as for the price, wonder would it fit into a DB7.

So I take it you won't be buying one, or a DB9

I think this is a great new product to see, but I think it's a start and directional, more than what I'd like to buy.

I think it's a shame that Linn are doing it more around the way that I like to see it being done, however I'm not sure I'd like how the Linn boxes will sound.

It would be nice to see a low/mid price range version of this box, with no HDD's at all and the ability to either just connect up onto the ethernet and use a NAS somewhere, or for Naim to bring out a second box that has HDD slots in it, in the same Naim form factor.

Naim have it right with having the NaimNet (Streamnet) software on the box, as this allows integration into other amps in the Netstreams range to work in other rooms, something an awful lot of people want nowadays, but, this should have a UPnP AV option as well, for people who just want to connect up a cheap streamer in their bedrooms.

I like the Netstreams stuff as it fulfills a need, but Naim need to ensure they adopt and drive industry standards for this range.

Roy.

Roy, I agree. I hope Naim will eventually have a stand alone DAC(s) at a lower or lower price point and that they go the way of having an ethernet connection (the one thing really missing from the Supernait) so you can directly connect to your own NAS. I think with the SL220 and an audioport you can do this, I know that you can use this configuration if you have the NS01 in another location, but I don't know if it is usable as a stand alone or if you need the software. It will be interesting to compare to the DAC in the SN. WRT Netstreams, the concept makes sense, but is not inexpensive to implement since the cost of the SL250 is $850 USD (amp/mounting kit)and you are still not getting audiophile quality to the inwall/ceiling speakers. Better, but not great. I saw on their web site one home 17 zones ($14k) for amp kits only!!!

Gary, I think you will also need more then a SL220/250. You need their power module as well as a Netstream switch(I think you can get away with a NON-Netstream switch if you JUST use Netstreams for audio).
Naim has promised at some point to release networked amps that will replace the need for the SL220/250 Netstream deals.
A way around the SL220 amp units is to get a Medialinx unit and use the digital coax out, plugging it into a d/a unit.