Best Naim Amp for Slim Transporter
Posted by: DaveBk on 11 August 2008
Hi all,
I've been using a NAC112/NAP150 combo for about 6 years, but have a bad case of upgraditis coming on. My only source is now a Slim Devices Transporter which offers fantastic sound with all the convenience of a network player. All my CDs are ripped in FLAC format onto a 1Tb of RAID5 NAS.
My current preferred option is to drive a NAP250 direct without a preamp - the Transporter output stage has switched attenuators so I should be able to get the line level right.
The alternative option would be to downgrade the amp to a NAP200 and pair it up with a NAC202 although the preamp seems unnecessary to me unless you beleive the 'magic' some people belive the Naim preamps add to the equation.
Is anyone out there using the Transporter with Naim amps? What works best?
I'm currently driving a pair or Monitor Audio Silver RS6's, but may well upgrade these as well in a year or so, but I'm happy with the sound and other reviews of these speakers confirm they punch their weight against far more expensive competition.
Thanks in anticipation!
Posted on: 11 August 2008 by JY
Just curious, have you tried connecting the Transporter to the amp directly to try it out?
Posted on: 11 August 2008 by pcstockton
quote:
Originally posted by DaveBk:
The alternative option would be to downgrade the amp to a NAP200 and pair it up with a NAC202 although the preamp seems unnecessary to me
That is a downgrade????
Preamp unnecessary?
Two VERY strange comments.
I dont know everything about the Transporter, but I would bet the farm that its "pre-amp" section is going to be extremely inferior to what you already have in the 112x.
The move to a 202/200 should be a very good one, especially seeing that you didn't mention price as a factor.
I imagine a 202/NAPSC/200 combo using the Transporter's internal DAC, and its analog outputs would be a formidable combination.
Posted on: 11 August 2008 by connon price
That would be easy to imagine if you hadn't compared the Transporter's analog output (using Chord Indigo interconnect) to the Transporter's digital out (using Naim DC-1 coax) into the Supernait with a hicap on it.
I found the Supernait doing dac duties to be way more musically sensical. Rounder, beefier, more nuanced, better.
Posted on: 12 August 2008 by DaveBk
The downgrade comment was referring to moving 'down' from a NAP250 to a NAP200 - realise both are a significant upgrade from my aging NAP150.
With regard to the preamp, I can't bypass the output stage of the Transporter so whatever external preamp is used is additional switching and buffering that I do not need in a single source setup. Surely this will be further degredation irrespective of the quality of the external pre-amp? (less is best and all that...)
I have read 2 potential issues with the direct to poweramp scenario - harsher sound (subjective?) and potential instability due to any residual HF signals not filtered out by the preamp.
Thanks for the feedback so far.
Posted on: 12 August 2008 by Darke Bear
A friend of mine has a Transporter and also uses a CD5i - they both offer very different musical experiences.
I tried the route of avoiding a Preamp years back, for similar reasons and was always very disappointed with the end result - harsh, thin, just wrong!
From my experience, get the best Naim Preamp you can afford
Posted on: 12 August 2008 by Frank Abela
I'm rather inclined to suggest the SuperNait actually! This option provides you with the Naim DAC. My understanding is that the SlimDevices is an OK analogue source, but no great shakes. The SuperNait takes the analogue section of the device out of the equation by connecting digitally. Although this may introduce jitter into the equation thanks to the S/PDIF interface, the Naim DAC uses buffering to reduce that and seems to give excellent results.
I appreciate that the 250-2 is a better amplifier but I don't think you can expect it to improve on the output stage of the Transporter. It would certainly be an interesting demo - Transporter into 250-2 vs Transporter into SuperNait's digital input.
Posted on: 12 August 2008 by DaveBk
Sooooo many options to consider...
How does the NAP200 compare to the NAP250 - is it really worth the extra money?
The SuperNait certainly looks interesting esprcially as I now see it supports 24bit/96kHz over S/PDIF - one of the attractions of the Transporter was a 24bit DAC and support for FLAC at higher sample rates.
I could buy a NAP200/250 now, and keep my existing preamp powered by a FlatCap2, then upgrade to a SuperNait once I have further financial approval... (aka wife...)
Posted on: 12 August 2008 by Frank Abela
Your preamp is the weak link in your system. Although capable, the 112 never set the world alight. Preamps are often looked down on as the poor relation in the amplifier equation, but in my opinion they are far more important than the power amp section. It's usually a weak preamp section which lets the side down.
Putting a 112 in front of a 200 or 250 is like putting the cart before the horse and asking it to push...
Posted on: 12 August 2008 by DaveBk
OK, understood - ditch the 112 and get a decent preamp!
SuperNait into NAP200?
Posted on: 12 August 2008 by zarniwoop
quote:
Originally posted by DaveBk:
OK, understood - ditch the 112 and get a decent preamp!
SuperNait into NAP200?
Do you realise that the SuperNait is an integrated amp?
Posted on: 12 August 2008 by Seanbeer
I would say SuperNait !
or a CD5x....., oh just kidding. I just bougth a SB3 and i konw how addictive it is comparing to 74 mins of a CD.
Posted on: 12 August 2008 by connon price
Dave,
The Supernait is an integrated amp with a poweramp section that rivals the NAP200. Using it with the NAP200 is an improvement, but that money would be better spent on a HiCap which improves, you guessed it, the pre-amp! See the trend in system building advice? It also seems to improve the DAC performance but I don't know exactly how it is powered, whether it gets power from the HiCap when one is employed, or if it is still powered from the onboard, but now less encumbered, power supply.
Alternatively, get a 202 or 282 to replace the 112 and wait for a possible Naim stand alone DAC.
If you are thinking of 250 eventually (yes it is much better than the 200) a 282 is really where you should aim.
Pre-amp pre-amp pre-amp pre-amp.
Posted on: 12 August 2008 by DaveBk
Must read specs properly before posting...
I remembered the Nait sub-brand being 'integrated', but in my hurried search on the product pages this lunchtime did not connect...
Having done the sums, I think I can stretch to:
NAP 250
NAC 202
FLATCAP 2X to power the 202
This gives me the option to add a SUPERCAP and a 282 in a year or so.
I'm broadly happy with the analogue output from the Transporter, but will consider a Naim standalone DAC if one ever arrives.
Thoughts?
Posted on: 12 August 2008 by Seanbeer
quote:
Originally posted by DaveBk:
Must read specs properly before posting...
I remembered the Nait sub-brand being 'integrated', but in my hurried search on the product pages this lunchtime did not connect...
Having done the sums, I think I can stretch to:
NAP 250
NAC 202
FLATCAP 2X to power the 202
This gives me the option to add a SUPERCAP and a 282 in a year or so.
I'm broadly happy with the analogue output from the Transporter, but will consider a Naim standalone DAC if one ever arrives.
Thoughts?
I have not heard the transporter myself, but if i were you, i would definately give the on board DAC of the supernait an audition.
What i can certanly say is the analog out from my SB3 is worst than / or similar to my philips DVD player and is not comparable to the CD5i which i have in the setup.
that said for casual listening, you might not notice poor performance of the SB.
since you are spending fair amount of money on your setup, i assume quality of sound is important and i would guess that transporter + supernait will be your short term soloution and as they are pretty affordable according to what you can afford.
thereafter you can wait for the NA DAC.
or perhaps wait for hte HDX?
Posted on: 12 August 2008 by imperialline
quote:
Originally posted by Seanbeer:
since you are spending fair amount of money on your setup, i assume quality of sound is important and i would guess that transporter + supernait will be your short term soloution and as they are pretty affordable according to what you can afford.
thereafter you can wait for the NA DAC.
or perhaps wait for hte HDX?
Obviously, you have not heard of the Lavry DA10 DAC?
Posted on: 13 August 2008 by DaveBk
quote:
I have not heard the transporter myself, but if i were you, i would definately give the on board DAC of the supernait an audition.
The Transporter delivered far more than I was expecting, given that Slim Devices had not established any prior credibility as an audiophile outfit. I find it a transparant and musically engaging source which made me re-explore my music library. In addition the convenience of a network player keeps my listening room uncluttered, and allows me to index, tag and sort my collection. Stereophile did a good review about 18 months back.
Posted on: 13 August 2008 by Seanbeer
quote:
Obviously, you have not heard of the Lavry DA10 DAC?
you are right, i have up to now a non-believer of DAC as i am a Naim CDP user.
i will do a search during free time. thanks !
Posted on: 13 August 2008 by Seanbeer
quote:
Originally posted by DaveBk:
quote:
I have not heard the transporter myself, but if i were you, i would definately give the on board DAC of the supernait an audition.
The Transporter delivered far more than I was expecting, given that Slim Devices had not established any prior credibility as an audiophile outfit. I find it a transparant and musically engaging source which made me re-explore my music library. In addition the convenience of a network player keeps my listening room uncluttered, and allows me to index, tag and sort my collection. Stereophile did a good review about 18 months back.
i could guess it must be doing a fine job since it cost quite a bit of money.
but...just to be safe not to miss out....
do it A/B with its analog output Vs one of the naim CDP (try CD5i which cost less than the Transporter), if you find the transporter not losing out to it, then i think you are thinking on the right path but if it doesn't, i think an external DAC or for a safe bet the Supernait with internal 'NAIM' DAC, will ensure that your 'source' be up to the starndard.
Posted on: 15 August 2008 by DaveBk
I have a CD5, but to be honest I've never switched it on since getting the Transporter.... I'll have a go over the next few days at a true A/B comparison and see what I find. How does the CD5 compare to the newer CD5i?
Posted on: 15 August 2008 by Seanbeer
quote:
Originally posted by DaveBk:
I have a CD5, but to be honest I've never switched it on since getting the Transporter.... I'll have a go over the next few days at a true A/B comparison and see what I find. How does the CD5 compare to the newer CD5i?
looking forward for your report between the Cd5 and the transporter.
i have never heard the CD5 so i wouldn't make any comments. if you care to do a serach, you will hear lots of differnt voices.
one is the CD5x certainly is better than both.
Posted on: 20 August 2008 by davea
quote:
Originally posted by DaveBk:
I have a CD5, but to be honest I've never switched it on since getting the Transporter.... I'll have a go over the next few days at a true A/B comparison and see what I find. How does the CD5 compare to the newer CD5i?
Sorry to wade in late, but I would agree that Supernait is certainly the way to go. I tried various combos and soon realised that the DAC in the SN is significantly superior to the Transporter one. You also have the flexibility to cater for other analog and digital inputs and other upgrade paths etc.
Posted on: 20 August 2008 by DaveBk
The Supernait's certainly still a contender, but I really struggle with paying for the elements don't need - primarily the poweramp section... I really wish Naim had concentrated on making a absolutely top class digital preamp, then left us with the option open to augment with the power supplies and poweramps of choice.
I'm visiting a Naim dealer on Saturday to audition some options, I'll try and fit the Supernait into the mix and see what my ears tell me.
Posted on: 21 August 2008 by davea
quote:
Originally posted by DaveBk:
The Supernait's certainly still a contender, but I really struggle with paying for the elements don't need - primarily the poweramp section... I really wish Naim had concentrated on making a absolutely top class digital preamp, then left us with the option open to augment with the power supplies and poweramps of choice.
I'm visiting a Naim dealer on Saturday to audition some options, I'll try and fit the Supernait into the mix and see what my ears tell me.
Honestly, you wont regret it. Cost of SN isnt much different in cost to a decent preamp (282, 252) so it is still good value as a Digital/Analog Pre and I would say personally it is already top class (though I guess Naim could do better if they were inclined)
Posted on: 21 August 2008 by DaveBk
The Supernait does seem 'keenly' priced at £2400, given that the poweramp section is quoted as "based on the NAP200" (£1550), I guess the preamp is of a similar class to the NAC202 (£1600) and there's a quality DAC thrown into the mix.
Seems almost too good to be true...
Posted on: 21 August 2008 by davea
If you want to hear the full capability of the Transporter you are welcome to visit on the South Coast. ( Transporter -> SN -> SC -> 300 -> SL2)
