hdx online

quote:

Originally posted by Adam Meredith:

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
they say it IS NOT going to happen.

when was that? I merely enquire.

Now that is potentially interesting.

Jack

quote:

Originally posted by Jack Barron:
Now that is potentially interesting.

and, possibly, not -

quote:

Originally posted by pcstockton:
this was what I was referring to. It appears I misread the original. I thought you said "would" in the below statement.

Posted Nov 10, 12:03 AM
"The arguments for building our own CD players with the DAC close to the transport are probably relevant but not applicable to other manufacturers' devices.

I cannot see a reason, apart from other priorities, why we wouldn't make a standalone DAC.

quote:

Originally posted by pylod:
hey guys...why can´t you just except , that naim solution will rip and sound better...at least when it comes to reproduce the typical naim sound...certainly computer/dac solutions will sound good as well, but maybe not if your ears are spoiled by naim cd players...

1 to 1 rips doesn´t necessary guaranty best sound....


andrew...do you mean they will get a unit for demo into the shops or can you buy them already ?...i thought it will be in august or later first

regards p

With all due respect we are dangerously close to blind faith here.

If configured correctly, EAC is supposed to attempt to read and reread bits off the CD in case of errors, ultimately procucing a 100% bit by bit copy of the original.

I am not sure where you read in the Naim white paper that says HDX ripped files will sound better than a EAC rip. I doubt if they would claim that. If it sounds any better than a perfect EAC copy, there must be something added that is not originally there in the first place?

I can accept that it COULD potentially sound better than a computer rip with no error correction mechanism, or it has an algorithum that works quicker or smarter than EAC. But to say that there is some Naim voodo there and "just accept it" is just blind faith.

By the way, the rip would never "reproduce the typical naim sound", it should be 100% identical to the original. Anything beyond that is MSG.

JY

Astute comments

Gregg

Well at least now I can write-off Naim as a digital source. I was a bit disappointed at the closed-box solution primarily intended at the market that only care about CD albums from the larger traditional record companies. The only CD:s I have are the ones that come with three music magazines I subscribe to.

Naim will not produce a box that makes the most of using the internet as a digital source (i.e. a standalone DAC for a mac). While I agree that their current typical customer is not interested, the internet generation is just growing up and starting to earn money. But they have probably done their market research - I am just odd I guess :-)

My collection of digital source-material is a mixed bag of formats. I dont like transcoding. Especially not lossy formats. I use whatever the artist publishes.

Some stuff I have is audio. Some is audio plus video. And some podcasts (audio only or with video). Sometimes a source is streamed live.

A typical session for me includes anything from Youtube (I show video with a projector) spanning the range to downloaded 24-bit Apple Lossless Audio.

On top of that Naim refer me to a Windows computer, both in control software and in file formats. Not going to happen - and it seems like a strange choice now that Macintosh is just passing 20% market share in computers sold retail (i.e. not shipped in containers to large corps). And who would like an ugly Dell laptop in their living room!

Pylod
When I asked my retailer when he will have the HDX so I can listen and buy one the reply was 2/3 weeks. When I told him I heard August he replied 'long before that'.
My retailer expect it will sound as good as CDX2.
With alleged improvements it challanges the CDS3. My retailer did point out that if it was that good, Naim was bring out HDX 2..3 etc.
Good argument.

quote:

Originally posted by JY:
With all due respect we are dangerously close to blind faith here.
..should be 100% identical to the original. Anything beyond that is MSG.

Well put.
Steve

quote:

Originally posted by jlarsson:
On top of that Naim refer me to a Windows computer, both in control software and in file formats. Not going to happen - and it seems like a strange choice now that Macintosh is just passing 20% market share in computers sold retail (i.e. not shipped in containers to large corps). And who would like an ugly Dell laptop in their living room!

On the contrary.

There's no problem with Macs on the network, or Apple music file formats. The Gui runs on any flash web browser. The HDX will recognise music files on your Mac connected via ethernet. If the music on the MAC is in a shared folder then the HDX will find the playable media. The shared folder must be shared CIFS (Common Internet File System).

It's only the Naimnet Desktop Client config program that needs windows and we have succesfully done this on a Mac using either emulation or dual boot setup. Eventually the Desktop Client software could be written for Mac too...

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Dane:

There's no problem with Macs on the network, or Apple music file formats.

Richard,
I understood that the HDX was not currently able to replay AAC files because of DRM related licensing issues. If this is not the case, then that is great news. Or was your comment limited to those files we have effectively ripped ourselves rather than purchased from iTunes Music Store?
Thanks,
Huw

Huw,

we have no problems with Apple file formats as we have bought the licenses. However files copy protected with DRM cannot be streamed through the HDX (or anything else for that matter).

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Dane:
It's only the Naimnet Desktop Client config program that needs windows and we have succesfully done this on a Mac using either emulation or dual boot setup.

but only on intel macs...

quote:

Eventually the Desktop Client software could be written for Mac too...

it definitely should! not having it at launch would be a big mistake i think.

i don't want to install windows just for tagging my music.

when you rip a cd to HDX what format is it stored in on the hard drive - is it a losslessly compressed format?

quote:

Originally posted by bunter:
when you rip a cd to HDX what format is it stored in on the hard drive - is it a losslessly compressed format?

wav

quote:

Originally posted by jlarsson:

Naim will not produce a box that makes the most of using the internet as a digital source (i.e. a standalone DAC for a mac). While I agree that their current typical customer is not interested, the internet generation is just growing up and starting to earn money. But they have probably done their market research - I am just odd I guess :-)

Don't know where you get that from. Reading the posts onm the forum it seems there is a significant proportion of people who prefer the idea of a pc/streamer/dac option. Just look at how many posts there are from people using Squeezeboxes.
Personally I prefer the way that Linn has gone with the Sneaky DS. I think that may be more flexible and future proof. It's also significantly cheaper. But if Naim brought out an HDX5 at CD5 prices that can work with a NAS box and hopefully include access to internet radio I would very probably go for that.

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Dane:
Huw,

we have no problems with Apple file formats as we have bought the licenses.

Does that mean that the HDX will play Apple Lossless files?

The HDX looks like a great device for those who want to stay pure to Naim.

However if I was starting from scratch in building up a hifi system, I would absolutely not purchase a CD player (or the HDX), I would get a DAC such as the Beresford and run it through the best Naim amplification and compatible speakers I could afford.

I understand that better CD players can draw out more music from the disc, but the above setup offers more flexiblity, accessability, ease of use and much much better value for money.

For the record I have the following set-up CDX2/XPS2 NAC282/HICAP NAP250.2 and Allaes, introducing a Beresford playing wav files has given me many options and for other than dedicated listening (family out, phone off etc) I am struggling to see why I need to have stacks of CD's around rather than that nice little NAS device with all the wav files.

I beleive this is the main threat to companies like Naim and I agree with many other posters that Naim are really missing a trick by not providing a Naim DAC.

Here's to the music !

quote:

Originally posted by EmCee:


I beleive this is the main threat to companies like Naim and I agree with many other posters that Naim are really missing a trick by not providing a Naim DAC.

Here's to the music !

They DO offer a DAC !!

It's stuck inside the supernait !!

I think that was a very clever move by Naim since it offers an obvious upgrade path to existing users, and the possibility of flogging more hicaps to further enhance the supernait.

A Naim standalone DAC would be a very well directed shot in the foot, IMHO

Absolutely no desire to buy a Supernait nor do I need one, just don't think the HDX stacks up, no matter how good the technology.

Laptop £500
1TB NAS Storage £170
Beresford TC-7510 £110

Total Cost £780 - lots of cash left for some serious Naim amplification for my second system !!!

HDX - 400GB

Total Cost £4500 - needing much more cash for some serious Naim amplification for my second system !!!

Its all about choices !

EmCee,

welcome to the Naim forum.

I think before you dismiss the HDX out of hand you should hear it in action, especially against your laptop/Beresford combo. In fact, don't even go that far, give it a listen against a Naim CD player. Yes, there's a price difference but yes too, there's a substantial performance difference. I've heard the DAC you mention among others with WAVs from a Macbook. Good as these DACs can be, personally I'd take a CD5i in preference from a purely sound performance point of view. Just slapping a DAC on the end of any old digital source is not a panacea, especially when the source is from a personal computer.

Naim is a company dedicated to the pursuit of the highest performance in sound reproduction. For all the technology and convenience that technology can bring, this will not change.

The HDX has been designed from the ground up to offer sound of the highest calibre, fully in line with our other top-level source components. It has been a lot of hard work to achieve that level of performance; if only it were as simple as your proposed laptop/DAC system...

Time and again we can demonstrate the sense in "source first" philosophy. Computer audio has not revolutionised that position; you get what pay for...

Dear MC,

This is classic example of diminishing returns and if acquired an example of source first. Of course this requires that the early reports of extra-ordinary quality be found in practice ...

No doubt a PC and separate DAC will get something potentially about the £1000 CD player quality. For something in the ball park of the £5000 CD player then one might expect that the cost will seem similar: In this case there have been unconfirmed reports of a price tag of £4500.

I do not suppose that a £4500 CD player is four and a half times better than a £1000 machine, and also that a £1000 PC + DAC will be only two ninths as good as the £4500 HDX, but that last ounce of performance certainly is valued by some. Source first and all that...

How many I do not know, but then there are people who spend thousands on a stylus that will only work optimally for a couple of years.

Value is very much in the ear of the beholder for those who find music replay in the home something worthy.

Of course this varies from person to person, and quite possibly you are one who would be better served with a £1000 PC system and $5000 worth of Turntable? Or possibly not!

George

PS: Dear Mr Dane, Sorry our posts were composed at the same time. I suspect we agree on this!

Hello Richard,

I totally appreciate what you say, I do still feel that a Naim standalone DAC would be welcomed into loving arms by many.

I already have a pretty decent (not top notch I agree) Naim setup, so CD replay is not the issue here. To me the Naim "way" has been to provide sepcific components for specific purpose, hence my belief that a standalone DAC would see Naim doing what do best - making the music, not being a NAS provider ! The rate of change in IT faster processors, cheaper storgage will mean Naim will always be playing catch up with a device like the HDX.

Like I say each to their own.

I think this is something that is debatable about how the industry will change.

A few years back, I could go out and buy a car and then get someone to fit an alarm to it, then add ABS brakes to it and then get some air bags fitted...

Or, now, I just buy a car and it's all integrated to it and works together.

I know which I'd prefer.

Roy.

Likewise your view is appreciated here Emcee.

Funny you mention processor speed. In a hard disc player, a fast processor is not always a good thing. Why? Well, power consumption, heat, and hence reliability... (not forgetting the need for noisy fans - again adding noise and compromisng reliability). One of the biggest challenges with the HDX was to design it to be as quiet as possible and to run as cool as possible. The heat sinking is particularly well thought out and means that lots of noisy fans are unnecessary. There is one fan on the back just in case but it's really only there in case the HDX is hidden inside a cupboard with poor ventilation.

As for storage, internal storage is modular (and hence potentially upgradeable in future), it gives us total control over all factors for optimum performance and backup, and makes the HDX a "package", i.e. no need to to have to get other bits and pieces in order for it to work (and which may or may not want to work with the Naim unit). Don't forget, it works with NAS storage too so you get the best of all worlds.

I'm finding this debate (and other Computer vs. Appliance threads) fascinating tbh.

It seems somewhat contradictory that on the one hand Naim are sure that they have come up with a method of ripping that is much better than anything that a Mac or PC can offer, yet on the other hand the HDX is fitted with a relatively small 400gb of usable storage, with the reasoning from Naim being that it's trivial to hook up a NAS etc. to provide additional storage.

Can you rip directly from the HDX to that storage, or once your HDX is full can you transfer the files from it to your network storage (with the benefits that having them ripped by the HDX brings) and free up the HDX storage?

Paul,

yes, you can use the HDX for ripping and store on NAS storage.

I'm moving house next week. I have to admit the last time I moved, lugging the music collection nearly killed me. Never mind performance, purely from a convenience point of view the HDX is looking mighty appealing right about now...