Innocent Bystander posted:

MDS posted:

What, I wonder, would be Mogg's early initiatives, apart from hard Brexit and attempting to repatriate the colonies of the former British Empire? Hmmm......returning to black & white TV; mandatory cut-glass English accents for BBC announcers; 'gentleman' having to wear double-breasted suits in sober colours; re-introduction of the half-crown (and threepenny-bit for the commoners). Ah, the possibilities.      

Living in the British Isles but not UK, before the last day or two my only awareness of Reece-Mogg was from Have I got News For You - and I rather  liked his ability to laugh at himself.

Overall I am left feeling that he does at least appear to be totally honest and straight (iin the old-fashioned sense), refreshingly so given what seems to be the norm for senior politicians. Just a pity he cones from the political position he does.

A bit like Boris really.

It's a pity both of them didn't stick with these humorous TV games shows.

MDS posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

MDS posted:

What, I wonder, would be Mogg's early initiatives, apart from hard Brexit and attempting to repatriate the colonies of the former British Empire? Hmmm......returning to black & white TV; mandatory cut-glass English accents for BBC announcers; 'gentleman' having to wear double-breasted suits in sober colours; re-introduction of the half-crown (and threepenny-bit for the commoners). Ah, the possibilities.      

Living in the British Isles but not UK, before the last day or two my only awareness of Reece-Mogg was from Have I got News For You - and I rather  liked his ability to laugh at himself.

Overall I am left feeling that he does at least appear to be totally honest and straight (iin the old-fashioned sense), refreshingly so given what seems to be the norm for senior politicians. Just a pity he cones from the political position he does.

I quite like him too. He seems honest, authentic and, as you say, able to laugh at himself.  He's just from the wrong century. 

and planet.

Resurrection posted:

MDS posted:

What, I wonder, would be Mogg's early initiatives, apart from hard Brexit and attempting to repatriate the colonies of the former British Empire? Hmmm......returning to black & white TV; mandatory cut-glass English accents for BBC announcers; 'gentleman' having to wear double-breasted suits in sober colours; re-introduction of the half-crown (and threepenny-bit for the commoners). Ah, the possibilities.      

Ah, still better than back to the future East Germany style circa 1975, driving our Trabants that we can wait 10 years to be allocated while trying to keep clear of Momentum's Stasi. Mmm, Socialist Utopia. 

But look on the bright-side. Our women's javelin, discus and shot-put medal count in the Olympics will rocket!

Pcd posted:

MDS posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

MDS posted:

What, I wonder, would be Mogg's early initiatives, apart from hard Brexit and attempting to repatriate the colonies of the former British Empire? Hmmm......returning to black & white TV; mandatory cut-glass English accents for BBC announcers; 'gentleman' having to wear double-breasted suits in sober colours; re-introduction of the half-crown (and threepenny-bit for the commoners). Ah, the possibilities.      

Living in the British Isles but not UK, before the last day or two my only awareness of Reece-Mogg was from Have I got News For You - and I rather  liked his ability to laugh at himself.

Overall I am left feeling that he does at least appear to be totally honest and straight (iin the old-fashioned sense), refreshingly so given what seems to be the norm for senior politicians. Just a pity he cones from the political position he does.

I quite like him too. He seems honest, authentic and, as you say, able to laugh at himself.  He's just from the wrong century. 

and planet.

Err, have you Momentum chappies not noticed rhat Corbyn inhabits the wrong century (20th), wrong country as well as his pan galactic stupidity.

Resurrection posted:

MDS posted:

I'd love that to come true, Fatcat, and I agree that there's much political manoeuvring going on at the moment, but I've yet to see any of our leading politicians show sufficient courage to stand up and say the result of the referendum was wrong, the damage to the UK from leaving is going to be too great, and that we should have a rethink.   I think all of them fear being labelled 'undemocratic' and 'ignoring the will of the people'.  

Err, that's because it would be undemocratic and would be ignoring the will of the people. I know that sense of entitlement and superiority overrides those small details. After all, it's exactly what the people you appear to love and support have been doing for generations now. 

Ask the people 'should we bring back capital punishment?' and I suspect the answer (likely stoked by the Daily Mail) would be yes. Doesn't make it right or in the interests of the UK. We elect governments to, among other things, take immensely difficult choices on our behalf because they - the decisions - don't boil down to simple black & white, like entering into and withdrawing from international treaties, applying sanctions, international aid, taking military actions, even declaring war. 

Resurrection posted:

Pcd posted:

MDS posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

MDS posted:

What, I wonder, would be Mogg's early initiatives, apart from hard Brexit and attempting to repatriate the colonies of the former British Empire? Hmmm......returning to black & white TV; mandatory cut-glass English accents for BBC announcers; 'gentleman' having to wear double-breasted suits in sober colours; re-introduction of the half-crown (and threepenny-bit for the commoners). Ah, the possibilities.      

Living in the British Isles but not UK, before the last day or two my only awareness of Reece-Mogg was from Have I got News For You - and I rather  liked his ability to laugh at himself.

Overall I am left feeling that he does at least appear to be totally honest and straight (iin the old-fashioned sense), refreshingly so given what seems to be the norm for senior politicians. Just a pity he cones from the political position he does.

I quite like him too. He seems honest, authentic and, as you say, able to laugh at himself.  He's just from the wrong century. 

and planet.

Err, have you Momentum chappies not noticed rhat Corbyn inhabits the wrong century (20th), wrong country as well as his pan galactic stupidity.

Hmmm. You might have a point there, Resurrection 

Resurrection posted:

Dave***t posted:

Hmack posted:

Resurrection posted:

Mogg for ME!!! ????

Oh - me too!!! I really do hope so. Can I have a vote?

A Tory party with Rees-Mogg at its helm would not have a snowball's chance in Hell of being re-elected. Short of appointing John Redwood as party leader, there would be no surer way for the Tories to lose the next election.   

 

Got to say though, it would be a hilarious ten minutes.

Yep! Just like your own Corbyn moment! And you have the gall to ridicule Mogg when you have Mao Tse Corbyn?

Hmm, Mao Tse Corbyn is kinda fun, but the rest needs work. 4/10.

Rees Mogg resembles a Dickens character, Mr. Povgrinder, the ever-benelovent minister for workhouses. IMO, natch.

Good lord, I am aghast at my own sheer gall! I'll have to work on shutting up and taking what I'm given by my obvious betters. Do Breitbart offer courses?

More seriously, he is hardly the paragon of honest democracy people seem so willing to take him for. He has filibustered in the past (over the NHS, no less), and for a politician in a democracy that is a sin I simply cannot forgive.

I bet Mogg can't hold a candle to Corbyn when it comes to knowledge of manhole and drain covers. Take that! 

MDS posted:

I bet Mogg can't hold a candle to Corbyn when it comes to knowledge of manhole and drain covers. Take that! 

Ouch, that really hurt! ????

MDS posted:

I'd love that to come true, Fatcat, and I agree that there's much political manoeuvring going on at the moment, but I've yet to see any of our leading politicians show sufficient courage to stand up and say the result of the referendum was wrong, the damage to the UK from leaving is going to be too great, and that we should have a rethink.   I think all of them fear being labelled 'undemocratic' and 'ignoring the will of the people'.  

That may be situation at the moment, but it could change very quickly.

Apparently we’re very close to a tory leadership contest. If a neo-imperialist, hell bent on a hard brexit becomes the next PM, the MPs who are against a hard brexit won’t put up with that. Don’t forget the vast majority of MP’s are against leaving, so a soft brexit will be a minimum requirement.

As professor Ninestien used to say “Expect the unexpected”

I agree the prospect of a Conservative leadership challenge and contest seem to be getting closer and closer but I fear it would be very bloody (possibly ripping the Conservative party apart) and consequently cause an awful mess in Brexit negotiations.  Corbyn seems to be sitting on the side-lines hoping that the Tories implode thus opening the door for him to move into No.10. That makes some political sense, but I don't see much sign that he or the Labour party have a Brexit policy that is  any more coherent than that of the Conservative party. Indeed it's hard to see what Labour's Brexit policy is.   So we could just see one Brexit-divided party in government replaced with another divided party.  Brussels must despair at that prospect. 

At least another Brexit-divided party with policies that will improve social justice would be better than one with no policies whatsoever. 

And.

The Tories are in the main split between hard an soft brexit.

Labour are split between soft and no brexit.

Another reason for a Labour government then, along with an NHS where people don’t die on trolleys, where schools are properly funded, and where the trains operate as they should. The Tories offer nothing. No policies, no leadership, just a vacuum. 

Hungryhalibut posted:

Another reason for a Labour government then, along with an NHS where people don’t die on trolleys, where schools are properly funded, and where the trains operate as they should. The Tories offer nothing. No policies, no leadership, just a vacuum. 

Clearly you missed out on the 70s when the bins weren't emptied, electricity was rationed, the dead unburied and strike after strike crippled railways, and helped finish our car industry.

All courtesy of people like Len McCluskey whose puppet heads up the Labour Party at the moment.  Remember names like Red Robbo, Arthur Scargill and Mick McGahey, who lived a life of luxury on their members' money while their industries were destroyed by their actions.

McCluskey is the same today and only Public Services as well as the monopolistic railways are left to be the plaything of these Stalinist, champagne Socialists. 

Donald Tusk - Unless there is a change of heart among our British friends, Brexit will become a reality – with all its negative consequences - March next year. We, here on the continent, haven’t had a change of heart. Our hearts are still open for you.

Brexit: Britons favour second referendum by 16-point margin – poll

What disturbs me as much as anything, at the moment, is thecontrolled aggression shown by the Hard-Brexit politicians (such as Boris, Redwood, Gove and Mogg) and the frenzied aggression of many Brexit Voters on programmes like Question Time, if anybody has the audacity to suggest that a soft-Brexit or another referendum might be democratic or in our best interests. .

The small majority in the referendum doesn't justify annihilation of the wishes of all the Remainers plus (let's say) 75% of the Leave-voters

Don Atkinson posted:

What disturbs me as much as anything, at the moment, is thecontrolled aggression shown by the Hard-Brexit politicians (such as Boris, Redwood, Gove and Mogg) and the frenzied aggression of many Brexit Voters on programmes like Question Time, if anybody has the audacity to suggest that a soft-Brexit or another referendum might be democratic or in our best interests. .

The small majority in the referendum doesn't justify annihilation of the wishes of all the Remainers plus (let's say) 75% of the Leave-voters

Am afraid that the aggrieved air of self entitlement and continued refusal by those who are either part of the EU Establishment, sinecured by the EU Establishment, hope to obtain funding from the EU establishment, or have had ambitions to be part of the EU establishment to accept the Referendum result is a reason why, from a remaining point of view, there is the perception that, nay reality, that Leavers do not trust our own Establishment to implement Brexit properly or thoroughly, and that of course includes me. 

Our colleague from California has it about right when he talks of the anti-establishment Trump, so loathed by the bien pensant, whose policies and behaviour have ruffled so many feathers inside the USA and right round the world but bizarrely, even to me a hard core right winger, are actually imbuing him with a genuine sense of purpose and grudging respect. His character is loathsome to most people but am pretty sure a General MacArthur was a nasty piece of work, yet he got things done. Brexit is anti-Establishment and of course populist, but I do like a bit of populism now and again to stop the liberal tail wagging the dog.

As for Naim_Nymph's idea that another Referendum would deliver a different conclusion based on some propaganda poll, that is just wishful thinking. Most polls, and on theoretical polls I am abjectly disinterested until post Brexit implementation, show that the majority want the Government to get on and get us out. After all, if we really can't survive on our own or just don't like the Brave New World then another Referendum could be called. By then the Kleptocracy will be even more bankrupt and troubled than now, only we won't be paying for it. 

That’s exactly the sort of aggression that Don is highlighting. It’s just childish to use ‘Stalinist’ against left wing politicians you don’t like. I have no time for May, Johnson, Mogg and co., but I wouldn’t be so silly as to say they are all like Hitler. You can use all sorts of clever words in your posts, but that doesn’t make them clever. It’s simply trying to dress up the vitriolic rant. 

It seems now that Ministers are trying to bury reports showing that GDP growth will be lower after Brexit, whether or not we strike a deal. Should the economy, and the universal public services that it supports, really be sacrificed in pursuit of an ideal that only a very small majority believe in? 

Resurrection posted:

"the anti-establishment Trump, so loathed by the bien pensant ..... imbuing him with a genuine sense of purpose and grudging respect"

"but am pretty sure a General MacArthur was a nasty piece of work, yet he got things done. Brexit is anti-Establishment and of course populist, but I do like a bit of populism now and again to stop the liberal tail wagging the dog."

I guess I must be one of those you so freely label with the tag of "aggrieved air of self entitlement" and as one of the "Bien pensant" - I think you may have accidentally omitted on this occasion to include the term 'Liberal Elite'.

Well, I admit to having to look up the dictionary for the literal definition of the term 'bien pensant' in the Oxford Dictionary. Having studied French to 'A' level standard many years ago, I had a rough idea, but the literal meaning appears to be 'orthodox in attitude' or 'conventional in thinking'. Now, wouldn't it have been easier just to label us as orthodox or conventional rather than 'bien pensant'. As HH has stated above - clever words do not make your arguments or attempted insults particularly clever. However, I do applaud your "inclusive" attitude in so positively embracing the (rather lovely) French language in your post. This did surprise me a little.  

I guess I am not really surprised that you have developed a respect (albeit a grudging one) for Donald Trump and his "ability to get things done". However, are you sure you didn't make a slight mistake in respect of your reference to General Douglas MacCarthur. Your vitriolic rant about "Stalinist, champagne Socialists" in your previous post leads me to believe that you may well have meant to refer to the similarly named Senator Joseph McCarthy?    

Hmack posted:

Resurrection posted:

"the anti-establishment Trump, so loathed by the bien pensant ..... imbuing him with a genuine sense of purpose and grudging respect"

"but am pretty sure a General MacArthur was a nasty piece of work, yet he got things done. Brexit is anti-Establishment and of course populist, but I do like a bit of populism now and again to stop the liberal tail wagging the dog."

I guess I must be one of those you so freely label with the tag of "aggrieved air of self entitlement" and as one of the "Bien pensant" - I think you may have accidentally omitted on this occasion to include the term 'Liberal Elite'.

Well, I admit to having to look up the dictionary for the literal definition of the term 'bien pensant' in the Oxford Dictionary. Having studied French to 'A' level standard many years ago, I had a rough idea, but the literal meaning appears to be 'orthodox in attitude' or 'conventional in thinking'. Now, wouldn't it have been easier just to label us as orthodox or conventional rather than 'bien pensant'. As HH has stated above - clever words do not make your arguments or attempted insults particularly clever. However, I do applaud your "inclusive" attitude in so positively embracing the (rather lovely) French language in your post. This did surprise me a little.  

I guess I am not really surprised that you have developed a respect (albeit a grudging one) for Donald Trump and his "ability to get things done". However, are you sure you didn't make a slight mistake in respect of your reference to General Douglas MacCarthur. Your vitriolic rant about "Stalinist, champagne Socialists" in your previous post leads me to believe that you may well have meant to refer to the similarly named Senator Joseph McCarthy?    

I hope that by now you have an inkling that I can speak a bit of French myself having lived and worked in Brussels for five years. The orthodoxy you mention is the orthodoxy of the Liberal Elite Establishment not the populist orthodoxy to which it bears no relation. McCarthy saw reds under the bed and was a truly nasty piece of work, I can see a nasty one for real fronting up the Labour Party. ????

Steady folk. Richard D has made it very clear. We mustn't let this discussion drift towards the 'T' word.....  

Noted!

Resurrection posted:

....... his qualities outshine any member of Parliament of the current generation and, as far as I know, he has not, and has no need to dip his hand into the public purse or sacrifice any principles to sleaze his way up his political career path.

 

In fact his perceived lack of ambition seems to be his largest fault.

Possibly a lesson learned from the fact that we tend not to hold in high regard those who trample women and children to get to the lifeboats. 

Which has made open admiration for Boris J a love that, presently, dare not speak its name. 

Ravenswood10 posted:

I’m also old enough to remember rubbish piled high in the streets, rolling power cuts and being taught by Tilley lamps!

Being, yet, older - I can recall Latin by Aldis Lamp.

Which might explain several lacunae in my knowledge.