Are we sleep-walking out of Europe ?

TM's teacup?

I think that reducing TM to sneers at her appearance is unfortunate, and wildly misses the genuine importance of the politics of the moment.

I'm all for a modicum of ad hominem jibes about politicians (Gove looks like Pob, BJ has ridiculous hair, etc). But concentrating on female politicians' dress or facial hair (which is a new one on me) without engaging with what they say is too reductive.

Let's keep the humour, where appropriate, satirical rather than sexist.

Dave***t posted:

I think that reducing TM to sneers at her appearance is unfortunate, and wildly misses the genuine importance of the politics of the moment.

I'm all for a modicum of ad hominem jibes about politicians (Gove looks like Pob, BJ has ridiculous hair, etc). But concentrating on female politicians' dress or facial hair (which is a new one on me) without engaging with what they say is too reductive.

Let's keep the humour, where appropriate, satirical rather than sexist.

TM is a refined lady with impeccable taste. There is the possibility that she may find that cup design to be particularly attractive and functional. The image that I posted was not intended to induce any sexist connotations but rather to provoke our opinion of whether she would use it. I can understand how it may have been mistrued but I appreciate your initial concerns.

The speech wasn’t that interesting, but what was interesting was Mr Mogg’s reaction to it. He said something along the lines of, people must realise they won’t get everything they want. Presumably he now realises HE won’t get everything he wants. Hopefully he’s come to realise, if he’s not careful he won’t get anything he wants.

fatcat posted:

The speech wasn’t that interesting, but what was interesting was Mr Mogg’s reaction to it. He said something along the lines of, people must realise they won’t get everything they want. Presumably he now realises HE won’t get everything he wants. Hopefully he’s come to realise, if he’s not careful he won’t get anything he wants.

 

Ah JRM, now there's a decent chap, he should go far! Not like that Turbine fellow, or whatever, I think he should just go forth and multiply, although it's a little late for him to catch up on JRM's fecundity.

I did have to admire that after 12 months, Theresa May has finally got the message from Bernier et al. that there are “hard facts” that both sides have to accept.

Eloise posted:

I did have to admire that after 12 months, Theresa May has finally got the message from Bernier et al. that there are “hard facts” that both sides have to accept.

The hard fact is that we are going to have a pretty hard Brexit. The longer this game of charades goes on the more inevitable it becomes. If the EU continue their baiting of May in the hope that she will be forced to go to the country and a newly reformed Corbyn will be returned then they are asking for even more trouble. Corbyn hates the EU with a vengeance but sees it as an expedient way to gain power. Fawn around with the EU until we drop out then hope that May and the Conservatives carry the can for the newly embittered British electorate, sweep to magisterial power and rule the Socialist Republic of the UK for the next thousand years. He will, unfortunately, no longer need the services of the EU. His political horizons are limited to the Unions, his masters, the NHS, always good for tugging heart strings and the public services. Oh, and a woman called Dawn from Islington.

Unfortunately the EU is nothing but a political monster now and true practicalities like trade and neighbourliness take a lowly second place. As far as Selmayr, Juncker et al are concerned the U.K. deserves a good kicking as an example to other upstart nations. Pity we are taking a big slice of their budget with us.

I don't think Herr Corbyn has any intentions of forming the "Fourth Reich".

Huge posted:

I don't think Herr Corbyn has any intentions of forming the "Fourth Reich".

2 - 0 to the moderator for using the wrong language i.e. French or German. Can keep this up all day long as I'm snowed in.

Resurrection posted:

Huge posted:

I don't think Herr Corbyn has any intentions of forming the "Fourth Reich".

2 - 0 to the moderator for using the wrong language i.e. French or German. Can keep this up all day long as I'm snowed in.

Bah! Forgot what I was going to say, but I assure you it was prescient and very, very funny! ????

Resurrection posted:

Resurrection posted:

Huge posted:

I don't think Herr Corbyn has any intentions of forming the "Fourth Reich".

2 - 0 to the moderator for using the wrong language i.e. French or German. Can keep this up all day long as I'm snowed in.

Bah! Forgot what I was going to say, but I assure you it was prescient and very, very funny! ????

OK, that's quite funny!  

Huge posted:

OK, that's quite funny!  

Yes, it’s all becoming very amusing.

Mr Mogg attempting to put a brave face on the situation. He’s turned into a shadow of his former self. Who’d have thought that was possible.

The brexiteers are now doing far more moaning and bleating about brexit than the so called remoaners ever did.

Resurrection posted:

Unfortunately the EU is nothing but a political monster now and true practicalities like trade and neighbourliness take a lowly second place.

You’ve got that the wrong way around.

Everybody concerned about trade, nobody’s concerned about the leadership of the EU. The average mackem knows nothing about EU politics, but they do want their Nissan factory to stay open.

fatcat posted:

Huge posted:

OK, that's quite funny!  

Yes, it’s all becoming very amusing.

Mr Mogg attempting to put a brave face on the situation. He’s turned into a shadow of his former self. Who’d have thought that was possible.

The brexiteers are now doing far more moaning a about brexit than the so called remoaners ever did.

Blimey that's rich! You've obviously had some frommage in your ears when listening to Soubry, Major, Blair, Mandelson, Hesseltine, never mind Verhofstadt, Juncker, Selmayr and the Barnier creature! The exit is getting harder and harder with every malignant moan! 

fatcat posted:

Resurrection posted:

Unfortunately the EU is nothing but a political monster now and true practicalities like trade and neighbourliness take a lowly second place.

You’ve got that the wrong way around.

Everybody concerned about trade, nobody’s concerned about the leadership of the EU. The average mackem knows nothing about EU politics, but they do want their Nissan factory to stay open.

 

Wayaye Bonnie Laddie, Nissan's gangin' nowhere!

(I could do it much better in a Scottish accent }

Resurrection posted:

fatcat posted:

Huge posted:

OK, that's quite funny!  

Yes, it’s all becoming very amusing.

Mr Mogg attempting to put a brave face on the situation. He’s turned into a shadow of his former self. Who’d have thought that was possible.

The brexiteers are now doing far more moaning a about brexit than the so called remoaners ever did.

Blimey that's rich! You've obviously had some frommage in your ears when listening to Soubry, Major, Blair, Mandelson, Hesseltine, never mind Verhofstadt, Juncker, Selmayr and the Barnier creature! The exit is getting harder and harder with every malignant moan! 

More like I don't have a problem differentiating sensible constructive advice from inane moaning and bleating.

fatcat posted:

Resurrection posted:

fatcat posted:

Huge posted:

OK, that's quite funny!  

Yes, it’s all becoming very amusing.

Mr Mogg attempting to put a brave face on the situation. He’s turned into a shadow of his former self. Who’d have thought that was possible.

The brexiteers are now doing far more moaning a about brexit than the so called remoaners ever did.

Blimey that's rich! You've obviously had some frommage in your ears when listening to Soubry, Major, Blair, Mandelson, Hesseltine, never mind Verhofstadt, Juncker, Selmayr and the Barnier creature! The exit is getting harder and harder with every malignant moan! 

More like I don't have a problem differentiating sensible constructive advice from inane moaning and bleating.

Ha! Ha! I obviously forgot to mention the blinkers you are wearing as well!

Resurrection posted:

.

 

The hard fact is that we are going to have a pretty hard Brexit. The longer this game of charades goes on the more inevitable it becomes. If the EU continue their baiting of May in the hope that she will be forced to go to the country and a newly reformed Corbyn will be returned then they are asking for even more trouble. Corbyn hates the EU with a vengeance but sees it as an expedient way to gain power. Fawn around with the EU until we drop out then hope that May and the Conservatives carry the can for the newly embittered British electorate, sweep to magisterial power and rule the Socialist Republic of the UK for the next thousand years. He will, unfortunately, no longer need the services of the EU. His political horizons are limited to the Unions, his masters, the NHS, always good for tugging heart strings and the public services. Oh, and a woman called Dawn from Islington.

 

My reading of the crystal ball is that a hard Brexit will only happen if the HMG completely screw up the negotiations and the rest of the EU lose patience with us and we leave without a deal: that would indeed be a hard Brexit. In other words, it will occur pretty much by accident rather than deliberation.

The hard Brexiteers are too few in number to win a hard Brexit because, although they seemingly have the power to make life very difficult for Theresa M (who I think is genuinely trying to do her best, but unfortunately that doesn't look good enough), they don't have the numbers in the House of Commons. It's pretty clear that there is a comfortable majority of MPs who are looking for a soft Brexit when it comes to a vote.

If, before the negotiations are concluded, TM resigns or is pushed out and a hard Brexiteer becomes PM, the Parliamentary arithmetic is still the same and the likely result is a lost vote in the House, a fracture in the Conservative party, and an election.

If in the unlikely event that we have an election before negotiations are concluded and Corbyn gets in, I suppose there a possibility that more hard-Brexit MPs could be elected but I think the odds of that are small. So even in this situation the Parliamentary arithmetic works against a hard Brexit. Also Corbyn has said he wants the UK to stay in a customs union with the EU and retain the protections for workers etc. That's a soft Brexit.

MDS posted:

Resurrection posted:

.

 

The hard fact is that we are going to have a pretty hard Brexit. The longer this game of charades goes on the more inevitable it becomes. If the EU continue their baiting of May in the hope that she will be forced to go to the country and a newly reformed Corbyn will be returned then they are asking for even more trouble. Corbyn hates the EU with a vengeance but sees it as an expedient way to gain power. Fawn around with the EU until we drop out then hope that May and the Conservatives carry the can for the newly embittered British electorate, sweep to magisterial power and rule the Socialist Republic of the UK for the next thousand years. He will, unfortunately, no longer need the services of the EU. His political horizons are limited to the Unions, his masters, the NHS, always good for tugging heart strings and the public services. Oh, and a woman called Dawn from Islington.

 

My reading of the crystal ball is that a hard Brexit will only happen if the HMG completely screw up the negotiations and the rest of the EU lose patience with us and we leave without a deal: that would indeed be a hard Brexit. In other words, it will occur pretty much by accident rather than deliberation.

The hard Brexiteers are too few in number to win a hard Brexit because, although they seemingly have the power to make life very difficult for Theresa M (who I think is genuinely trying to do her best, but unfortunately that doesn't look good enough), they don't have the numbers in the House of Commons. It's pretty clear that there is a comfortable majority of MPs who are looking for a soft Brexit when it comes to a vote.

If, before the negotiations are concluded, TM resigns or is pushed out and a hard Brexiteer becomes PM, the Parliamentary arithmetic is still the same and the likely result is a lost vote in the House, a fracture in the Conservative party, and an election.

If in the unlikely event that we have an election before negotiations are concluded and Corbyn gets in, I suppose there a possibility that more hard-Brexit MPs could be elected but I think the odds of that are small. So even in this situation the Parliamentary arithmetic works against a hard Brexit. Also Corbyn has said he wants the UK to stay in a customs union with the EU and retain the protections for workers etc. That's a soft Brexit.

  

 

Mate, HMG and the EU will screw up their negotiations. This I guarantee.

You're a hopeless optimist, Resurrection 

On the 8th April 2018, ie in about 3 weeks time, the UK will, to all intent and purpose, terminate all of our UK Pilot licences. Most of us have converted our licences to EASA licences during the transition period of the past 6 years, but there are a few stragglers that need to cross the Finish Line ! It was mainly an admin process accompanied by  a few hefty admin fees !!

EASA is an EU Agency. Much of its documentation and processes were drafted by the UK and the UK was usually the first EU member to implement the EASA regulations as they were rolled out and subsequently modified.

The UK CAA has advised the stragglers to make the change quick, and has positively pointed out that we are still part part of EASA, and will be for some time despite Brexit.

But the wording is such that it is far from clear whether we intend to remain part of EASA, and presumably pay for the privilege, or whether this is a short-term change for 12 months (or possibly 3 years if we have a Brexit Transition) followed by a return to UK licences.

Does anybody here have knowledge of other industries in a similar position of imminent change to EU regulation that might then be superceded as soon as we leave the EU ?

Does anybody know what we intend to do long-term about engineering standards ?

When I was at University studying engineering, we had British Standards and Codes of Practice eg BS449 for steel design and CP 110 for reinforced concrete.

Now, I gather these have all been supeceded by "ENs"

I presume that initially we shall continue to use the ENs, but in the long term, for work in the UK, do we intend to develop our own standards or are we going to simply accept whatever the EU produces ie the next re-issue of each EN as and when it is produced.

I appreciate that when we produce designs or products for non-UK markets we need to deliver to their standards,  but are we intending to re-develop our own standards, possibly with a view to them being far more worthy than ENs, and an expectation that the EU, Chin and the USA (for example) will follow our lead ?

Another similar situation to that which Don raised... on 25th May GDPR(egulations) come into effect.  Even after Brexit the regulations will apply to any U.K. company dealing with EU citizens, but what will the U.K. do for U.K. citizens?

A lot of international standards - indeed the majority that I have involvement with these days - are wider than EU,  typically ISO (International Standards Organisation). Many originated as BSs, while in latter years before international harmonisation BSs increasingly were or included adoptions of other Standards.

I do not see that changing - BSI will still work with all the other international bodes and publish English Language versions of, standards, whether named ISO, or BS EN ISO etc.