Are we sleep-walking out of Europe ?

I strongly suspect that this is another bit of dodgy reporting by The Sun. 

MDS posted:

I strongly suspect that this is another bit of dodgy reporting by The Sun. 

 

I'm inclined to agree. But the Sun appears to be sticking with their story.

I suspect The Sun's lawyers have been consulted before publication and have decided they are the right side of the line in the sense of being sued but apparently the Palace has already lodged a complaint with the Press watchdog.

Given how delicately HRH trod on the Scottish referendum, where all the main Westminster parties were aligned, it rather beggars belief that she would be drawn into saying anything on the EU referendum where even ministers of the same government can't agree.  

This morning the BBC said the Sun claim Nick Clegg told a reporter 5 years ago that the queen was in favour of leaving the EU. Nick Clegg has denied this.

fatcat posted:

This morning the BBC said the Sun claim Nick Clegg told a reporter 5 years ago that the queen was in favour of leaving the EU. Nick Clegg has denied this.

Hmmm.

So do we believe the Sun's claim that Nick Clegg told them something 5 years ago, or do we believe Nick Clegg's claim that he didn't.

If (and it's a big if) but if the Sun is correct, Is there an implied presumption that the Queen did indeed tell Nick Clegg something ? or is there an implied presumption that Nick Clegg made something up ?

On the BBC whilst driving, (so not paying much attention) I thought I heard a comment that the reported "something" that Nick Clegg is alleged to have told the Sun was that the Queen considered the EU was going in the wrong direction.

If so, to my mind, "going in the wrong direction" doesn't equal "let's get out". It could mean, "let's get hold of the steering wheel"

It is all idle speculation that will not be proved in any likelihood!

Some how it seems unlikely that the Queen stopped to politics ... Except that UK sovereignty is somewhat above what we might call party politics ..

ATB from George

Given that Clegg has always been a strong advocate of the UK remaining in the EU, it's hard to think of a motivation for him to make this up.  

Don Atkinson posted:

On the BBC whilst driving, (so not paying much attention) I thought I heard a comment that the reported "something" that Nick Clegg is alleged to have told the Sun was that the Queen considered the EU was going in the wrong direction.

If so, to my mind, "going in the wrong direction" doesn't equal "let's get out". It could mean, "let's get hold of the steering wheel"

Agreed, Don

My understanding of the (so called) story was that a third party reportedly told The Sun that the Queen vented frustration at the EU to Nick Clegg during a private lunch (which Nick Clegg was attending in his capacity as the Deputy Prime Minister). 

As reported by the Guardian "The article, described by the paper as an “exclusive bombshell”, was written by the Sun’s political editor Tom Newton Dunn, who quoted “a senior political source” and “a highly reliable source”."

MDS posted:

I suspect The Sun's lawyers have been consulted before publication and have decided they are the right side of the line in the sense of being sued but apparently the Palace has already lodged a complaint with the Press watchdog.

Given how delicately HRH trod on the Scottish referendum, where all the main Westminster parties were aligned, it rather beggars belief that she would be drawn into saying anything on the EU referendum where even ministers of the same government can't agree.  

On past experience I doubt the Editors really care if it's true or not... So long as the lawyers feel they can get away with it...

Only in the last few days a former editor of the Sun has been convicted of breaking the law by printing picture (albeit heavily disguised) of a rape victim.

Apart from the quality of food I can get from my local fresh food suppliers, the fishmongers can not get for me loverly fish that should  be in my belly and not someone's in the EU that was caught just minutes from the coast. The Export systems within Europe needs more closer examinations than just Tally Tossing.

Don Atkinson posted:

jonathan,

Nice write up. You've identified some key issues and I think the "In" campaigners could follow your lead ie outlining these and otherpositive benefits of being an integral part of the EU. For example, you mention proper work/life balances. The working time directive has been in place for a decade but I doubt if the average working person recalls how this came about.

You mention criss-crossing Europe. We had Lee Allinson here a couple of weeks ago and before that Rob Hurst, both of whom mentioned that you have moved on to the European part of a bigger airline. Small world !

Gosh Don - it is a very small world!!  Rob is quite a character and we got on very well and shared many happy laughs together!  I haven't seen Lee for quite a while but both top blokes.  I finally managed to get into BA having wanted to fly for them since the age of 6 so I'm still doing my walkarounds and pinching myself when I walk under the unio9n jack tail!!  I consider myself very lucky to have finally achieved a lifetime goal at the tender age of 46!!  Best,  Jonathan

I was at the world biggest architectural lighting show at Frankfurt this week and received a half hour lecture from one UK exhibitor on why we should pull out (not to be on the train when it crashes).  But I was reminded of two conflicting pros & cons.  Much of the legislation to ban halogen lamps has come from the EU, and most probably lobbied by a certain Dutch lighting giant. Bad work, I think.  On the other hand, many of the exhibitors enjoy their business on the basis that the adoption of pan EU standards allows us to sell our products across Europe in markets that are similar to our own. This good! 

Jonathan Gorse posted:

Gosh Don - it is a very small world!!  Rob is quite a character and we got on very well and shared many happy laughs together!  I haven't seen Lee for quite a while but both top blokes.  I finally managed to get into BA having wanted to fly for them since the age of 6 so I'm still doing my walkarounds and pinching myself when I walk under the unio9n jack tail!!  I consider myself very lucky to have finally achieved a lifetime goal at the tender age of 46!!  Best,  Jonathan

Many congratulations Jonathan !   You've done what many of us never do... achieve... our goal.

Mind you, I've come pretty close to mine, owning a 552/500 combination at the tender age of fifty eighteen.

I hope you enjoy yours too  

Best regards, Roger 

BBC website just announced Ian Duncan Smith has resigned from the Cabinet citing his concerns at the planned cuts in disability benefits.  One would have thought that he could have addressed that concern within the Cabinet privately which makes me wonder whether this is actually more about his views on Brexit and is thus the first major crack in the Cabinet over the issue.  More to follow, perhaps? 

Don't worry Mike, like a turd that won't flush, IDS will be back...

Apparently No 10 and No 11 sources are already suggesting that IDS's real motivation is about Brexit.  Leaving aside the far more important issue of the way people vote in this referendum, it will be interesting watching the war rage within the Conservative party.   

Yes Mike, I could do with a good laugh

MDS posted:

BBC website just announced Ian Duncan Smith has resigned from the Cabinet 

Fantastic. A tiny ray of sunshine (even if briefly) which I'll enjoy while it lasts.

Do I cancel the sniper and ask for a refund? 

I'll sleep on it.

rjstaines posted:

Jonathan Gorse posted:

Gosh Don - it is a very small world!!  Rob is quite a character and we got on very well and shared many happy laughs together!  I haven't seen Lee for quite a while but both top blokes.  I finally managed to get into BA having wanted to fly for them since the age of 6 so I'm still doing my walkarounds and pinching myself when I walk under the unio9n jack tail!!  I consider myself very lucky to have finally achieved a lifetime goal at the tender age of 46!!  Best,  Jonathan

Many congratulations Jonathan !   You've done what many of us never do... achieve... our goal.

Mind you, I've come pretty close to mine, owning a 552/500 combination at the tender age offifty eighteen.

I hope you enjoy yours too  

Best regards, Roger 

Brilliant.................

Jonathan Gorse posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

jonathan,

Nice write up. You've identified some key issues and I think the "In" campaigners could follow your lead ie outlining these and otherpositive benefits of being an integral part of the EU. For example, you mention proper work/life balances. The working time directive has been in place for a decade but I doubt if the average working person recalls how this came about.

You mention criss-crossing Europe. We had Lee Allinson here a couple of weeks ago and before that Rob Hurst, both of whom mentioned that you have moved on to the European part of a bigger airline. Small world !

Gosh Don - it is a very small world!!  Rob is quite a character and we got on very well and shared many happy laughs together!  I haven't seen Lee for quite a while but both top blokes.  I finally managed to get into BA having wanted to fly for them since the age of 6 so I'm still doing my walkarounds and pinching myself when I walk under the unio9n jack tail!!  I consider myself very lucky to have finally achieved a lifetime goal at the tender age of 46!!  Best,  Jonathan

Not sure what you are flying, but if it's the A320, you might bump into Paul Moonen, Dutchman who used to instruct at Western Air and still flies our aircraft for recreation occasionally. He also migrated from Flybe to BA not that long ago.

Don,  Yes it's the A320 so I will keep an eye out for him - the place is so huge that you can feel like the new boy at school which is the complete reverse of Flybe where you tend to know almost everyone.  Big congrats on the 552/500 Roger, that is one heck of a combination - enjoy!

Jonathan

Jonathan  - Congrats it has been interesting hearing of your migration from the back office of BA to the cockpit in a BA plane via a long chain of moves.  I hope your pension with BA has been beneficially merged. 

Official start of campaigning today !

Jerremy has thrown his weight half-heartedly behind the Remain camp. Most frightening thought he mentioned was a Brexit Government headed up by Boris and Nigel......................