Are we sleep-walking out of Europe ?

Ian McEwan is one of our greatest authors. Try his books, they are quite brilliant. 

thebigfredc posted:

 'But, by 2019 the country could be in a receptive mood: 2.5 million over-18-year-olds, freshly franchised and mostly remainers. And also 1.5 million oldsters, mostly Brexiters, freshly in their graves.”

I personally haven't heard of Ian Mckeowan is but I am sure with stuff like this his books must sell like hot cakes. The quote is really quite unpleasant and disrespectful.

 

 

It might be a bit stark.  But I seem to remember that the voting and opinion polls on the EU referendum showed that it was older voters who were more inclined to vote leave and younger voters, and those approaching voting age, were strongly in favour of remaining.  So the quote isn't wrong. 

I am aware of and not disputing the demographic dimension to the EU Referendum result. 

thebigfredc posted:

 'But, by 2019 the country could be in a receptive mood: 2.5 million over-18-year-olds, freshly franchised and mostly remainers. And also 1.5 million oldsters, mostly Brexiters, freshly in their graves.”

I personally haven't heard of Ian Mckeowan is but I am sure with stuff like this his books must sell like hot cakes. The quote is really quite unpleasant and disrespectful.

 

 

McEwan’s work can be a bit of a curate’s egg I find. However, am having trouble keeping up with threads as am in John O’Groats trying to escape the REmoaning! 

Resurrection posted:

... However, am having trouble keeping up with threads as am in John O’Groats trying to escape the REmoaning! 

Sorry, not even you can escape from valid logic!

P.S.  Am I right in thinking that you quite enjoy the two way exchange of somewhat 'barbed' comments?
Your last post gave me some thought that I may, in fact, be wrong in that assumption, and that I should ask.

Resurrection posted:

thebigfredc posted:

 'But, by 2019 the country could be in a receptive mood: 2.5 million over-18-year-olds, freshly franchised and mostly remainers. And also 1.5 million oldsters, mostly Brexiters, freshly in their graves.”

I personally haven't heard of Ian Mckeowan is but I am sure with stuff like this his books must sell like hot cakes. The quote is really quite unpleasant and disrespectful.

 

 

McEwan’s work can be a bit of a curate’s egg I find. However, am having trouble keeping up with threads as am in John O’Groats trying to escape the REmoaning! 

Does that mean you’re heading round the coast? I can recommend some of the north west As a great place to get away from it all - good for introsoection (to amend your views on Brexit, of course!). Durness is a lovely village, much nicer than Jo’G, used to gave an art & craft village. If the Navy isn’t trying to blow up one of the islands just off the coast towards Cape Wrath, the minibus service to visit the cape is worth doing. Further south, from the fishing village of Linlochbervie you can drive as far as Oldshoremore, then if the weather is good a nice 5 mile walk up the coast to Sandwood Bay, a mile long glorious sandy beach, with rarely another human in sight. Then a little furthe south of course there’s the tiny road to Tarbet, and Handa Island.

Or are you heading for Orkney, Shetland, Faroes and Iceland, on to Greenland to forget forever about the EU and all things to do with leaving or staying in It?

Greenland isn't far enough for Resurrection...

It isn't in the EU, but it's still an OCT), and is very largely economically and commercially aligned with the EU through treaty agreements.

While I understand and agree with their argument, I'm a bit puzzled by this new political alliance between Morgan/Clegg/D Miliband. It seems a bit late to me.  Nor am I sure who is going to take any notice e.g. among MPs.  

The European Commission has published its views on aviation safety rules post-Brexit, if there is no implementation period or other agreements in place. It sets out the scenario from a legal perspective and details how EASA licences and certificates would be treated if we are not an EASA associate member.

In response the UK CAA have said: "The Government, the UK Civil Aviation Authority and the entire aviation industry have been clear that our collective preference is to remain a member of the European Aviation Safety Agency (EASA) once the UK withdraws from the European Union (EU). The EU paper describes what the situation will be if this is both not achieved and no other agreements are in place, including an implementation period. While this a matter for government, we believe this to be a highly unlikely scenario. However, we continue to make the necessary contingency plans."

At least we all seem to be singing from the same hymn sheet at the moment.

Assuming we do remain part of EASA, i'm still not sighted  on how much our contribution will be and whether we shall have any right of input, or just follow the Rules as established by others

Don Atkinson posted:

 

Assuming we do remain part of EASA, i'm still not sighted  on how much our contribution will be and whether we shall have any right of input, or just follow the Rules as established by others

Don; would remaining part of the EASA, through associated membership or however, likely require agreeing to the ECJ overseeing the rules of the EASA or is that not an issue with EASA?

Innocent Bystander posted:

Resurrection posted:

thebigfredc posted:

 'But, by 2019 the country could be in a receptive mood: 2.5 million over-18-year-olds, freshly franchised and mostly remainers. And also 1.5 million oldsters, mostly Brexiters, freshly in their graves.”

I personally haven't heard of Ian Mckeowan is but I am sure with stuff like this his books must sell like hot cakes. The quote is really quite unpleasant and disrespectful.

 

 

McEwan’s work can be a bit of a curate’s egg I find. However, am having trouble keeping up with threads as am in John O’Groats trying to escape the REmoaning! 

Does that mean you’re heading round the coast? I can recommend some of the north west As a great place to get away from it all - good for introsoection (to amend your views on Brexit, of course!). Durness is a lovely village, much nicer than Jo’G, used to gave an art & craft village. If the Navy isn’t trying to blow up one of the islands just off the coast towards Cape Wrath, the minibus service to visit the cape is worth doing. Further south, from the fishing village of Linlochbervie you can drive as far as Oldshoremore, then if the weather is good a nice 5 mile walk up the coast to Sandwood Bay, a mile long glorious sandy beach, with rarely another human in sight. Then a little furthe south of course there’s the tiny road to Tarbet, and Handa Island.

Or are you heading for Orkney, Shetland, Faroes and Iceland, on to Greenland to forget forever about the EU and all things to do with leaving or staying in It?

We're doing  the North Coast 500 and have done John O'Groats and Dunnett Head today before going rIght  across the top. Stopped at Durness and discovered we had no time to go out to Cape Wrath as we had to get down near to Lochinver. We are now in the middle of nowhere as our friends made the booking. Rathervlike Brexit really!

Resurrection posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

Resurrection posted:

thebigfredc posted:

 'But, by 2019 the country could be in a receptive mood: 2.5 million over-18-year-olds, freshly franchised and mostly remainers. And also 1.5 million oldsters, mostly Brexiters, freshly in their graves.”

I personally haven't heard of Ian Mckeowan is but I am sure with stuff like this his books must sell like hot cakes. The quote is really quite unpleasant and disrespectful.

 

 

McEwan’s work can be a bit of a curate’s egg I find. However, am having trouble keeping up with threads as am in John O’Groats trying to escape the REmoaning! 

Does that mean you’re heading round the coast? I can recommend some of the north west As a great place to get away from it all - good for introsoection (to amend your views on Brexit, of course!). Durness is a lovely village, much nicer than Jo’G, used to gave an art & craft village. If the Navy isn’t trying to blow up one of the islands just off the coast towards Cape Wrath, the minibus service to visit the cape is worth doing. Further south, from the fishing village of Linlochbervie you can drive as far as Oldshoremore, then if the weather is good a nice 5 mile walk up the coast to Sandwood Bay, a mile long glorious sandy beach, with rarely another human in sight. Then a little furthe south of course there’s the tiny road to Tarbet, and Handa Island.

Or are you heading for Orkney, Shetland, Faroes and Iceland, on to Greenland to forget forever about the EU and all things to do with leaving or staying in It?

We're doing  the North Coast 500 and have done John O'Groats and Dunnett Head today before going rIght  across the top. Stopped at Durness and discovered we had no time to go out to Cape Wrath as we had to get down near to Lochinver. We are now in the middle of nowhere as our friends made the booking. Rathervlike Brexit really!

Eek, no - you’ve gone past the seafood restaurant at Tarbet!  My favourite area is Scourie northwards - when I first used to holiday there, there was a ferry crossing at Unapool  just south of Scourie, with the great advantage that a lot of people turned around and headed back souuth! Well, it’s still nice enough at Lochinver and for so e distance south yet. 

Resurrection posted:

We're doing  the North Coast 500 and have done John O'Groats and Dunnett Head today before going rIght  across the top. Stopped at Durness and discovered we had no time to go out to Cape Wrath as we had to get down near to Lochinver. We are now in the middle of nowhere as our friends made the booking. Rathervlike Brexit really!

Your holiday seems quite organised. I’m surprised.

I would have thought, leaving the house with no cases, no idea where you where going and no idea how you where going to get there, was more your style.

HOLIDAY MEANS HOLIDAY.

Eloise posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

 

Assuming we do remain part of EASA, i'm still not sighted  on how much our contribution will be and whether we shall have any right of input, or just follow the Rules as established by others

Don; would remaining part of the EASA, through associated membership or however, likely require agreeing to the ECJ overseeing the rules of the EASA or is that not an issue with EASA?

Hi Eloise,

I don't know, is the honest answer to your good question, but I rather suspect "yes". Iceland, Norway, Switzerland and Lichtenstein are all members of EASA However,  i'm not totally sure of their terms of membership, but I've not been aware of any aviation matters from those four going to the ECJ, but then I tend to be somewhat parochial, focused on the UK and Canada !

I have sent an e-mail to my MP asking for an answer.

I will let you know what he says !

fatcat posted:

Resurrection posted:

We're doing  the North Coast 500 and have done John O'Groats and Dunnett Head today before going rIght  across the top. Stopped at Durness and discovered we had no time to go out to Cape Wrath as we had to get down near to Lochinver. We are now in the middle of nowhere as our friends made the booking. Rathervlike Brexit really!

Your holiday seems quite organised. I’m surprised.

I would have thought, leaving the house with no cases, no idea where you where going and no idea how you where going to get there, was more your style.

HOLIDAY MEANS HOLIDAY.

 

Ha! Ha! The fact that we're in the middle of nowhere north of Lochinver is down to our friends. My own bookings, as you would expect, have been perfect. The road south from Durness has been superb. Fantastic scenery, long, undulating roads that allowed me the chance to have some real fun, though not necessarily completely legally. Weather has also been spectacular. 

I see that hopeless loser, David Miliband, has struggled back from his $600,000 a year 'job' in New York to give us even more pearls of wisdom. Talk about desperation. 

Hardly a loser if he commands a salary of $600,000, surely.

A particularly strange (and I am sure in this case it is meant to be disparaging) put-down, given that in a fairly recent post you eulogised about a certain Rees Mogg and specifically the fact that he was a self made man who now had a net worth of around £100m.

So I guess your point is that people on the left of the political scene are not allowed to make or possess money whereas it's not only acceptable but downright commendable for those on the right? What a strange world in which you appear to live!

Hmack posted:

Hardly a loser if he commands a salary of $600,000, surely.

A particularly strange (and I am sure in this case it is meant to be disparaging) put-down, given that in a fairly recent post you eulogised about a certain Rees Mogg and specifically the fact that he was a self made man who now had a net worth of around £100m.

So I guess your point is that people on the left of the political scene are not allowed to make or possess money whereas it's not only acceptable but downright commendable for those on the right? What a strange world in which you appear to live!

You mean the parasitic left who either make their money like the KInnocks  through political nepotism or like Miliband by jumping on the 'charity' or quango bandwagon. 

Neither particularly witty nor insightful, and more than a little unpleasant.

I guess your reply probably speaks for itself and was simply intended to offend or at least irritate. It may not even reflect your true feelings.

However, I will take the bait. Just out of interest, are your feelings about the traitorous & parasitic left directed towards a small number of individuals on the 'left', or to anyone whose political views happen to be somewhat to the left of the likes of Rees Mogg, John Redwood or Nigel Farage?  

Hmack posted:

Neither particularly witty nor insightful, and more than a little unpleasant.

I guess your reply probably speaks for itself and was simply intended to offend or at least irritate. It may not even reflect your true feelings.

However, I will take the bait. Just out of interest, are your feelings about the traitorous & parasitic left directed towards a small number of individuals on the 'left', or to anyone whose political views happen to be somewhat to the left of the likes of Rees Mogg, John Redwood or Nigel Farage?  

 

 

Anyone living parasitically on the public's purse. However, if you look at quangos and charities rather a lot of their top dogs are allegedly left wing but I would call them at best Champagne Socialists, or spongers at worst. Am happy to include any Conservative peer grasping money from the EU  while clearly doing no Lordly duties. But any right winger doing the same as the Kinnocks or the Milibands is fair game as well. I hope you don't think I am prejudiced, Hmack.

Hmack posted:

Hardly a loser if he commands a salary of $600,000, surely.

A particularly strange (and I am sure in this case it is meant to be disparaging) put-down, given that in a fairly recent post you eulogised about a certain Rees Mogg and specifically the fact that he was a self made man who now had a net worth of around £100m.

So I guess your point is that people on the left of the political scene are not allowed to make or possess money whereas it's not only acceptable but downright commendable for those on the right? What a strange world in which you appear to live!

Meaning a loser in terms of his political career.

Can anyone remember anything he said or any deed or action he carried out?

thebigfredc posted:

Hmack posted:

Hardly a loser if he commands a salary of $600,000, surely.

A particularly strange (and I am sure in this case it is meant to be disparaging) put-down, given that in a fairly recent post you eulogised about a certain Rees Mogg and specifically the fact that he was a self made man who now had a net worth of around £100m.

So I guess your point is that people on the left of the political scene are not allowed to make or possess money whereas it's not only acceptable but downright commendable for those on the right? What a strange world in which you appear to live!

Meaning a loser in terms of his political career.

Can anyone remember anything he said or any deed or action he carried out?

Hmmmm.  Now that you pose the question, while I can recall what office he held, I must confess to struggling to remember anything he did. Maybe that's the art of politics: you will only be known for the cock-ups you make so best not to do anything at all.    

He’s pretty shrewd when it comes to keeping his head down and keeping his powder dry. He obviously see’s this as an opportunity to be associated with team soft brexit or team no brexit. One of which will ultimately be successful.

I expect him to given the next safe labour seat and become the next labour leader. Jeremy is looking very old and tired these days, the witch-hunt from part of the Jewish establishment seems to have taken a toll. I doubt if he’ll stick it out much longer.

A pro EU labour leader will be a game changer.

BYE BYE BREXIT.

It's interesting to speculate as to what would have happened had David M not lost the leadership election to his younger brother Ed: an election in which it is alleged that the left wing of the party swung the vote.  I think David M is more statesman-like than his younger brother, and Ed's mishaps in the election campaign proper seemed to undermine him. I don't think David M would have endured the 'bacon sandwich' episode.  

If David M had won that party election I think it highly possible he would have gone on to defeat Cameron, who was rather surprised to win a majority after the coalition and 'austerity'.  If David M had become PM the political world would look very different today i.e. Corbyn would still be a back-bencher and there would be no Brexit.  Maybe Resurrection should be more generous to David M, after all?!    

fatcat posted:

He’s pretty shrewd when it comes to keeping his head down and keeping his powder dry. He obviously see’s this as an opportunity to be associated with team soft brexit or team no brexit. One of which will ultimately be successful.

I expect him to given the next safe labour seat and become the next labour leader. Jeremy is looking very old and tired these days, the witch-hunt from part of the Jewish establishment seems to have taken a toll. I doubt if he’ll stick it out much longer.

A pro EU labour leader will be a game changer.

BYE BYE BREXIT.

Optimistic! The 500,000 Momentum Labour supporters are well entrenched and going nowhere. They hate the old Blairites almost as much as they hate the Tories, soooo, no safe seat for David. 

MDS posted:

It's interesting to speculate as to what would have happened had David M not lost the leadership election to his younger brother Ed: an election in which it is alleged that the left wing of the party swung the vote.  I think David M is more statesman-like than his younger brother, and Ed's mishaps in the election campaign proper seemed to undermine him. I don't think David M would have endured the 'bacon sandwich' episode.  

If David M had won that party election I think it highly possible he would have gone on to defeat Cameron, who was rather surprised to win a majority after the coalition and 'austerity'.  If David M had become PM the political world would look very different today i.e. Corbyn would still be a back-bencher and there would be no Brexit.  Maybe Resurrection should be more generous to David M, after all?!    

Yes, you have to feel sorry for a man so undone by a banana! ????