Are we sleep-walking out of Europe ?

Oh ! and if....................

..........Boris drops his guard one day and "jokes" that he only campaigned for the Leave side to upset Cameron or some other equally pathetic reason.............

Don Atkinson posted:

Oh ! and if....................

..........Boris drops his guard one day and "jokes" that he only campaigned for the Leave side to upset Cameron or some other equally pathetic reason.............

I wouldn't put it past him

Browsing the newspapers in WH Smiths today, I noticed one headline that suggested the House of Lords might be able and inclined to block any Act of Parliament to Invoke Article 50.

Might lead to a constitutional crisis.

Would this be worse than the current situation ?

Dead Horses come to mind

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36961338

We truly are living in a post-fact society where we increasingly make policy decisions based on how we "feel", not even on what we "think", let alone what we "know". Armed police will make zero difference to what is already a statistically insignificant risk. The policy is designed to simply instill fear and allow for greater control. I don't like where any of this cruel nationalism, fear and isolationism is headed. US, UK, much of Europe, Australia....it's all going the wrong way. Canada seems to be a bit of a hold-out, but I don't know how long that can last....

Don Atkinson posted:

Browsing the newspapers in WH Smiths today, ....

As a journalist, Don, I hope you bought one too. If so thank you.

Chris

winkyincanada posted:

http://www.bbc.com/news/uk-36961338

We truly are living in a post-fact society where we increasingly make policy decisions based on how we "feel", not even on what we "think", let alone what we "know". Armed police will make zero difference to what is already a statistically insignificant risk. The policy is designed to simply instill fear and allow for greater control. I don't like where any of this cruel nationalism, fear and isolationism is headed. US, UK, much of Europe, Australia....it's all going the wrong way. Canada seems to be a bit of a hold-out, but I don't know how long that can last....

A few years ago I committed a traffic offence (exceeding the speed limit) Just south of Yellow Head Junction. The RCMP officer was quite pleasant and issued me with a speeding ticket which incurred a small fine.

I made sure I stayed in the RAV while he approached the vehicle and I wound the window down and kept my hands and arms in full view.

I know he had no reason to need the gun he was wearing - it simply made zero difference to my speeding, it was simply to instill a degree of fear and allow for greater control.

For those who don't know, Yellow Head Junction is in BC Canada. The RCMP are armed. Mrs D is back out there in a couple of weeks and I am due out at the end of the month. I'll take a careful look at Calgary, Vancouver and Kelowna airport and the Boarder Control and Airport Police.

Winky, I think Canada is already a member............

Christopher_M posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

Browsing the newspapers in WH Smiths today, ....

As a journalist, Don, I hope you bought one too. If so thank you.

Chris

I did Chris, but not the one with the headline that I quoted.

Just thanks for buying one, these are dark times in print.

C.

I won £30 at a betting shop, i did a bet on Brexit winning! I did spend many hours pounding the streets delivering leaflets though!

IMHO we should invest in high quality infrastructure.

The A34 (Southampton to the M40) and the A14 (Birmingham to Felixstow would be a good start - and I don't mean a bit of meddling here and there, three-lane dual throughout).

A new runway (at least) for London (Gatwick) would do for a start.

And three or four new nuclear power stations plus the first tranche of SMRs.

And the Water Companies need to get off their Butt (sorry for the pun) and make sure we have enough storage capacity and transfer capacity.

Network Rail already get £35Bn every 5 year Control Period and something like 1/3 of this is for "Enhancements" ie expansion as opposed to Operations, Maintenance and Renewals, so they should simply be "made" to be more effective in what they deliver (ie more for our money)

And I wouldn't rely on foreign investment for the capital funding - Hinkley being a prime example of where this road leads to.

Of course we should divert the £350m per week into these new schemes (yes I know ! but that's how much the bloody Brexit people said we would have so they can f***ing well stump it up !) but a modest increase in taxation now, plus "in-house" development, design and construction would pay dividends in the future.

Unfortunately I don't see T May as the inspiration for any of this. More like City Mayors and local devolution, with councils squabbling over who pays for the local rubbish dump ! Anyone living in or near Newbury will know exactly what I mean !!

We need a long term investment strategy for Transport,Energy,Housing and Water Infrastructures because at the moment it appears to be done on the back of a fag packet down at the pub.

Pcd posted:

We need a long term investment strategy for Transport,Energy,Housing and Water Infrastructures because at the moment it appears to be done on the back of a fag packet down at the pub.

Exactly.

And it was probably Nigel and Boris with a couple of pints and the fag packet between them.

God (please) help us !

Well, that's true.

But since then a lot of water has passed under the bridge and we still haven't got to grips with infrastructure investment and I don't see things changing anytime soon with the new lady.

Hope i'm wrong.

Now I appreciate that we are Leaving, but I still feel it's a mistake. However, looking on the bright side I have the beginings of a Win-Win proposition rolling around in my head..............

No second referendum ( I never considered that appropriate, the Gov should take expert advice, debate and vote) but..........all those who voted "Leave" should cough up the £350m per week that Nigel and the others banged on about (it doesn't exist so somebody has to cough up).

Now I always found maths a bit difficult, so to keep things simple, about 17.5 million people voted to Leave. That works out at £20 per person per week to cough up the missing £350m. They could pay annually in advance at £1040 per person if they preferred.

Now I suspect that we "could" identify the Leave voters by analysing the voting slips that I believe are numbered and can be re-associate with individual voters, but that would be unethical.

So we set up a "Register" in which each voter HAS to declare whether he/she is a Remain or Leave citizen. It would operate much as a polling day but your "registration" WILL be recorded. By default anybody who doesn't register will be treated as a Leaver.  (See, i'm being really generous to the Leave campaign). Everybody will be free to register either way regardless of how they voted in the Referendum and i promise there will be no checks. really !!

Those who register to Leave (including those who can't be bothered to turn out) WILL be subject to a Tax of £20 per person per week for 99 years as will their currently non-voting off-spring. _{(assuming we leave of course)}

With me so far ? This should make up the £350m per week short-fall (and some, assuming all the non-voters last time remain as non-registers this time). What do you mean, some people might change their mind and register to "Remain" this time. nah !! but if they did, ok, the Gov would be within it's rights to decide not to Leave after all, assuming the majority of Registrations were Remainers.

Now for the interesting bit............we appoint KPMG ( I have a friend on the Board there) as auditors to the economy. All the future surplus PROFIT we make as UK plc as a result of leaving the EU is divided up between the Leavers (ie the ones who are paying their £20 per week). The Remainers get nowt. And if, (I know that Nigel and Boris will tell you this bit is hypothetical) but if UK plc makes a LOSS, yes.......you've got it, the Leavers cough up for that debt too.

Win-Win.

Not enough registered takers (Leavers), we don't Leave.

Enough registered takers, they take the financial risk.

i appreciate that there are other factors to take into account, as I said above, it's only a proposition rolling around in my head............

Two types of Brits, two types of Americans, and actually two types  of people in general, those that do and those that whine. Whatever you think of the choice, it has been made. I have no doubt you will all do just fine. The modern world is prone to hyperventilating over just about everything. Brexit is an example. Mark my words, in a couple of years you'll be thinking.........went better than I thought.

PCD: If you hadn't had a certain female Prime Minister you wouldn't be worrying about leaving the EU. You'd be a lot like Greece. Wonderful history, not much present.

Pcd posted:

Maybe it should be the other way round those who voted to stay in the EU
club should pay the membership fee.

Yep, peanuts in reality. Nothing like £350pw Good idea. (not whining!)

Clay Bingham posted:

Two types of Brits, two types of Americans, and actually two types  of people in general, those that do and those that whine. Whatever you think of the choice, it has been made. I have no doubt you will all do just fine. The modern world is prone to hyperventilating over just about everything. Brexit is an example. Mark my words, in a couple of years you'll be thinking.........went better than I thought.

PCD: If you hadn't had a certain female Prime Minister you wouldn't be worrying about leaving the EU. You'd be a lot like Greece. Wonderful history, not much present.

Spot-on Clay

I'm doing my best to help HM Gov. make the right decision. Glad you approve !

I voted leave. Was in no way influenced by the £350m per week. As a radio 4 listener and broadsheet reader I was aware of the truth behind the numbers, including Mr Osbourne's exaggerated £4300 per household. 

Initially as I read your post I was disinclined to pay your proposed £20 Brexit tax, however when you proposed the upside I'm in favour. Few details to be fleshed out. How is the benefit measured? I'd like to validate the model. Also would suggest that two companies independently do the analysis. Lessens the chances of undue influence being exerted.

Willy.

Oh, of course this is all conditional on a hard Brexit. 

Willy.

Willy posted:

I voted leave. Was in no way influenced by the £350m per week. As a radio 4 listener and broadsheet reader I was aware of the truth behind the numbers, including Mr Osbourne's exaggerated £4300 per household. 

Initially as I read your post I was disinclined to pay your proposed £20 Brexit tax, however when you proposed the upside I'm in favour. Few details to be fleshed out. How is the benefit measured? I'd like to validate the model. Also would suggest that two companies independently do the analysis. Lessens the chances of undue influence being exerted.

Willy.

That's why I suggested KPMG as auditors.

Good idea to have (say) PCW or Ernst & Young doing the measurements.

The Government is preparing for EU Exit negotiations and views are being sought from General aviation in two areas:

1) Risks & possible impacts of leaving the EASA system

2) Potential Opportunities arising from leaving the EASA system

I am being pressed to make a response from AOPA in a very short time frame and need your views by Tuesday 16 August 2016.

Please email your views to me by close of play on 16 August.

Martin Robinson
CEO AOPA UK

Let's not hang about! This popped up on Thursday. Asking for views by Tuesday.

EASA is the European Aviation Safety Agency. Set up to advise and implement EU Commission Regulation 1178 and other Regulations which governs all aspects of aviation in the EU and affects aviation activities in other countries world-wide.

Giving us about 5 days to respond in the middle of the holiday period (and I normally work Thursday to Monday incl) makes Tony B Liar and the Iraq War look positively well thought out and organised.

However, I have managed to compose my draft and will send it off tomorrow after reviewing it again.