Are we sleep-walking out of Europe ?

Hmack posted:

andarkian posted:

winkyincanada posted:

andarkian posted:

winkyincanada posted:

ynwa250505 posted:

MDS posted:

 

Reform the EU from the inside? Easier? Where have you been for the past 40 years?

This is a day to rejoice! Our destiny is back in our own hands ��

Any examples of what should be done with this new-found (re-claimed) authority?

Yep, don't do anything that the prize snowflake, Trudeau, is doing in Canada. How's your own heating bills in that very cold country which Trudeau has hiked in adoration of 'Climate Change'?

Energy here is not nearly expensive enough. It's not about my heating bills. There are larger things at stake. If the wealthiest countries in the world can only act in self interest, then we're all screwed.

And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, winkyincanada says the 'common' Canadian man and woman can eat cake as an alternative to affordable energy, but sadly should not be able to afford the energy to bake the cake. Screwing your fellow citizens as a starting point for global approbation is not only disingenuous it makes you look weak and feeble to the rest of the world and am afraid will result in your country being double screwed. And I am only using your own feeble words. 

So - are your comments just plain "rhetoric" for the sake of scoring points, or do you have some underlying beliefs to back them up.

Are you (like Stephen Bannon and Donald Trump) of the opinion that "Global "Warming" is a conspiracy? Are you behind Donald Trump's moves to do away with emission controls on cars and return "big style" to the use of fossil fuels? Do you think that the impact Trump's decision will have on attempts to reduce emissions and toxic pollution in 'developing' countries such as China, India and others are just too bad?

 

oi - this thread isn't about Trump .... stop hijacking the topic - get a grip ffs ...

Hmack posted:

ynwa250505 posted:

MDS posted:

I don't disagree that the EU would benefit from reform but that would be much easier to work for and achieve while being on the inside than the outside.  For me this is a depressing day and one that I think we will come to regret, even if that day is some years off.    

Reform the EU from the inside? Easier? Where have you been for the past 40 years?

This is a day to rejoice! Our destiny is back in our own hands ��

Not really!

It's in the hands of Theresa May and her cohorts of far right wing self-serving opportunists who seem hell-bent on running down the NHS and introducing an American style of health care, and re-distributing wealth in this country from the poor to the wealthy.

If you are one of the privileged and well off in our society (the "Champagne Conservatives", the "I'm all right Jack" brigade, or the Farage style "Hooray Henrys", if you like), and don't really care about the lot of the "common man" then you will be doing just dandy. Otherwise, you are in for a tough ride once you realise that this Government's priorities are not aligned with yours.   

Furthermore May appears to be adopting a Trump like approach to her political campaigning by claiming that Brexit will bring people in the UK closer together than before.

By the way I really don't think that most Tory supporters fall into any of the 3 categories I have outlined above. However, a few people on this forum certainly do appear to do so. 

Hooray

Andarkan posted:

"There you go again, presuming who I am, what my views are and who I plead allegiance to"

Very much as you do about me. Hey - we have even more in common than I thought.

If not ultra right, then what about 'Lenin'. Is he (and his desire to bring down the establishment) the common hero for both you and Stephen Bannon?

"She's (Nicola Sturgeon) a world class whinger loathed equally as much in Scotland, England and by myself".

I think you are very wrong on this one. How on earth was she elected with a large majority at the last election if she is so unpopular? Do you really believe that she and her party won't win a majority at the next election in Scotland irrespective of whether either you or I vote for her? 

"Anyway, I would rather the £14 billion Foreign Aid was spent on our much more deserving elderly than fed into despots' Swiss bank accounts".

But it won't be, will it? At least, not by Theresa May and her current Government at any rate. But tell me one thing. Would you be happy for the UK to spend money on Foreign Aid if you thought that the bulk of it would go to those who need it most? Be careful with your response. It might positively alter my opinion of you as a person. We can't have that - can we?

andarkian posted:

winkyincanada posted:

andarkian posted:

winkyincanada posted:

ynwa250505 posted:

MDS posted:

 

Reform the EU from the inside? Easier? Where have you been for the past 40 years?

This is a day to rejoice! Our destiny is back in our own hands ��

Any examples of what should be done with this new-found (re-claimed) authority?

Yep, don't do anything that the prize snowflake, Trudeau, is doing in Canada. How's your own heating bills in that very cold country which Trudeau has hiked in adoration of 'Climate Change'?

Energy here is not nearly expensive enough. It's not about my heating bills. There are larger things at stake. If the wealthiest countries in the world can only act in self interest, then we're all screwed.

And there you have it ladies and gentlemen, winkyincanada says the 'common' Canadian man and woman can eat cake as an alternative to affordable energy, but sadly should not be able to afford the energy to bake the cake. Screwing your fellow citizens as a starting point for global approbation is not only disingenuous it makes you look weak and feeble to the rest of the world and am afraid will result in your country being double screwed. And I am only using your own feeble words. 

Back to my question. What would you do with the UK's new-found "freedoms"?

 

Back to my question. What would you do with the UK's new-found "freedoms"?

Sorry Winky,

I had to make a mad dash to Waitrose to stock up on Brie de Meaux, Rocquefort, Raclette, Manchego, Margaux, Rioja, Barolo, but strangely nothing German, as they make great cars (I have 2) but lousy food and drink.

What would I do.?

Number one, and it is a big number one, the politicians can now be held to be fully accountable for their own actions, no more obfuscation.

Repeal any role for the ECJ, to be followed very quickly by the ECHR.

Thirdly, we cannot keep allowing a new Newcastle to arrive on our shores every year. I recognise that May could have done something already about the 170,000 non-EU people arriving every year.

Did I mention immigration?

Oh, and immigration is unsustainable.

And something really has to be done about Sturgeon, Salmond and that world class bore, Robertson.

Did I mention the Ginger Whinger, don't like to repeat myself?

More?

andarkian posted:

Back to my question. What would you do with the UK's new-found "freedoms"?

I had to make a mad dash to Waitrose to stock up on Brie de Meaux, Rocquefort, Raclette, Manchego, Margaux, Rioja, Barolo, but strangely nothing German, as they make great cars (I have 2) but lousy food and drink.

What, even their sausages?

What would I do.?

Number one, and it is a big number one, the politicians can now be held to be fully accountable for their own actions, no more obfuscation.

If we manage that ... then I will say that Brexit will be worth it.  But I really doubt the government will stop blaming others!

Repeal any role for the ECJ,

Any role?  What about mediating disputes in trade?  What about disputes about protected designation of origin (PDO), protected geographical indication(PGI), and traditional specialities guaranteed (TSG)?

to be followed very quickly by the ECHR.

Sorry but no.  And anyway that has nothing to do with the EU and so you can't say "we" voted to leave that.

Thirdly, we cannot keep allowing a new Newcastle to arrive on our shores every year. I recognise that May could have done something already about the 170,000 non-EU people arriving every year.

Did I mention immigration?

Oh, and immigration is unsustainable.

And I thought the Brexit vote WASN'T an anti-immigration racist backlash?

And something really has to be done about Sturgeon, Salmond and that world class bore, Robertson.

Did I mention the Ginger Whinger, don't like to repeat myself?

So you want the UK to have freedoms, but not the individual nations that are part of the UK?

More?

Well something actually more than angel dreams would be nice!

Eloise posted:

andarkian posted:

Back to my question. What would you do with the UK's new-found "freedoms"?

I had to make a mad dash to Waitrose to stock up on Brie de Meaux, Rocquefort, Raclette, Manchego, Margaux, Rioja, Barolo, but strangely nothing German, as they make great cars (I have 2) but lousy food and drink.

What, even their sausages?

What would I do.?

Number one, and it is a big number one, the politicians can now be held to be fully accountable for their own actions, no more obfuscation.

If we manage that ... then I will say that Brexit will be worth it.  But I really doubt the government will stop blaming others!

Repeal any role for the ECJ,

Any role?  What about mediating disputes in trade?  What about disputes about protected designation of origin (PDO), protected geographical indication(PGI), and traditional specialities guaranteed (TSG)?

to be followed very quickly by the ECHR.

Sorry but no.  

Thirdly, we cannot keep allowing a new Newcastle to arrive on our shores every year. I recognise that May could have done something already about the 170,000 non-EU people arriving every year.

Did I mention immigration?

Oh, and immigration is unsustainable.

And I thought the Brexit vote WASN'T an anti-immigration racist backlash?

And something really has to be done about Sturgeon, Salmond and that world class bore, Robertson.

Did I mention the Ginger Whinger, don't like to repeat myself?

So you want the UK to have freedoms, but not the individual nations that are part of the UK?

More?

Well something actually more than angel dreams would be nice!

Sorry Eloise, but how am I racist by saying that we have to reduce immigration (preferably to almost zero IMHO)? You cannot just keep using snowflake put downs to avoid reality. Our island is small and is struggling with all that have arrived so far. To repeat boring earlier discussions, have you been out on the roads recently, have you tried to get a doctor's appointment, have you tried to get your children into a preferred school? Have you tried to buy a house and how far do you have to live from your work to be able to afford your house? 

As of the Ginger Whinger and all the other opportunists in the SNP, I am Scottish and can say what I like about these treacherous bar stewards who are wrecking my home country. Did you know that apart from the so called budget they passed in their Mickey Mouse Parliament they have not passed one law in the last year, being far too busty talking about Independence? 

andarkian posted:

No, the country is big enough for these immigrants if resources were used properly.  I'm doing what you say we should be doing ... holding the correc people to account.  There are problems caused by immigration, but immigration has and would continued to have made the country an economic powerhouse.  If you think immigration is going to be reduced to close to zero then you are in for a rude awakening - some ministerial comments have suggested immigration might even need to RISE.

As for my comment, pro Brexit people (not necessarily you) repeatedly were saying this vote was not about immigration (and being anti immigration and pro native brits IS racist whatever you might like to believe); yet most of the rehtoric coming from Westminster is how we can control immigration.

As of the Ginger Whinger and all the other opportunists in the SNP, I am Scottish and can say what I like about these treacherous bar stewards who are wrecking my home country. Did you know that apart from the so called budget they passed in their Mickey Mouse Parliament they have not passed one law in the last year, being far too busty talking about Independence? 

Sorry you don't like Nicola Sturgeo .  I don't like Theresa May.  But she is democratically elected so has the right, no the duty, to speak her mind about what she thinks is best for Scotland.  You are banging on about how taking back control means you can vote parties out of power at the next election.  Well do that then.  You (like certain people in the government) want your cake and to eat it on this issue!

(ps sorry for the bad formatting during quoting)

andarkian posted:

 

Back to my question. What would you do with the UK's new-found "freedoms"?

Sorry Winky,

I had to make a mad dash to Waitrose to stock up on Brie de Meaux, Rocquefort, Raclette, Manchego, Margaux, Rioja, Barolo, but strangely nothing German, as they make great cars (I have 2) but lousy food and drink.

What would I do.?

Number one, and it is a big number one, the politicians can now be held to be fully accountable for their own actions, no more obfuscation.

Repeal any role for the ECJ, to be followed very quickly by the ECHR.

Thirdly, we cannot keep allowing a new Newcastle to arrive on our shores every year. I recognise that May could have done something already about the 170,000 non-EU people arriving every year.

Did I mention immigration?

Oh, and immigration is unsustainable.

And something really has to be done about Sturgeon, Salmond and that world class bore, Robertson.

Did I mention the Ginger Whinger, don't like to repeat myself?

More?

Yes please. Please elaborate on how politicians may be held more accountable after Brexit. What of substance changes with the repeal of roles for ECJ and ECHR? 

I take it that you don't like foreigners.

winkyincanada posted:

andarkian posted:

 

More?

Yes please. Please elaborate on how politicians may be held more accountable after Brexit. What of substance changes with the repeal of roles for ECJ and ECHR? 

I take it that you don't like foreigners.

Well, as you don't like what I have given you I can only suggest that you go and commiserate with Eloise.

I have elaborated endlessly my own reasons for being happy with Brexit and expressed very clearly my own wishes for a post Brexit UK. I am anti EU, very pro Europe (Normandy here I come in May), anti mass immigration, and very much anti SNP.

I think you will find that at least 17.4 million UK citizens agree with me and am never going to be suppressed from or limited in expressing views that are neither extreme or racist. 

andarkian posted:

winkyincanada posted:

Yes please. Please elaborate on how politicians may be held more accountable after Brexit. What of substance changes with the repeal of roles for ECJ and ECHR? 

I take it that you don't like foreigners.

I think you will find that at least 17.4 million UK citizens agree with me and am never going to be suppressed from or limited in expressing views that are neither extreme or racist. 

Sorry I thought the 17.4million didn't all have the same motivations / reasons for voting for Brexit?

As for your views on immigration ... yes being anti-immigration IS racist if you like it or not.  I will concede your views on immigration are not extreme.

Eloise posted:

andarkian posted:

winkyincanada posted:

Yes please. Please elaborate on how politicians may be held more accountable after Brexit. What of substance changes with the repeal of roles for ECJ and ECHR? 

I take it that you don't like foreigners.

I think you will find that at least 17.4 million UK citizens agree with me and am never going to be suppressed from or limited in expressing views that are neither extreme or racist. 

Sorry I thought the 17.4million didn't all have the same motivations / reasons for voting for Brexit?

As for your views on immigration ... yes being anti-immigration IS racist if you like it or not.  I will concede your views on immigration are not extreme.

Well, bully for you, Eloise. As you are the arbiter of everything that is politically correct I have to stand corrected by yourself. No matter what you self righteous Remoaners may think, 17.4 million people definitely did say that we're full up! In fact that was numero uno on the must have list of Brexit policies for the Brexiteers and am willing to bet more than a few shy and retiring Remoaners want the same, particularly if they have children, need a doctor, actually do work etc. etc.

andarkian posted:

Eloise posted:

andarkian posted:

winkyincanada posted:

Yes please. Please elaborate on how politicians may be held more accountable after Brexit. What of substance changes with the repeal of roles for ECJ and ECHR? 

I take it that you don't like foreigners.

I think you will find that at least 17.4 million UK citizens agree with me and am never going to be suppressed from or limited in expressing views that are neither extreme or racist. 

Sorry I thought the 17.4million didn't all have the same motivations / reasons for voting for Brexit?

As for your views on immigration ... yes being anti-immigration IS racist if you like it or not.  I will concede your views on immigration are not extreme.

Well, bully for you, Eloise. As you are the arbiter of everything that is politically correct I have to stand corrected by yourself. No matter what you self righteous Remoaners may think, 17.4 million people definitely did say that we're full up! In fact that was numero uno on the must have list of Brexit policies for the Brexiteers and am willing to bet more than a few shy and retiring Remoaners want the same, particularly if they have children, need a doctor, actually do work etc. etc.

Shame then that Brexit won't (in itself) solve any of those problems given they are problems caused almost exclusively by domestic policy and if anything are improved by immigration.  So either you're a racist for not wanting people here who aren't British, or you're an idiot for falling for Fararge and Goves anti immigration rhetoric and blaming.

But anyway you are not listening / reading to what I'm saying... 17.4 million people had a variety of reasons for voting Brexit... only some voted on grounds of immigration.  To quote Lord Ashcroft (opinion pollster) 'Nearly half (49%) of leave voters said the biggest single reason for wanting to leave the EU was “the principle that decisions about the UK should be taken in the UK”. One third (33%) said the main reason was that leaving “offered the best chance for the UK to regain control over immigration and its own borders.” Just over one in eight (13%) said remaining would mean having no choice “about how the EU expanded its membership or its powers in the years ahead.”' ... on the other hand you keep repeating that all 17.4million people want out to get rid of immigration.

Watching David Davis on Question Time last night and a few others including the PM from time to time, it is clear to me that c. 6 million brexit voters are going to be upset. Immigration isn't going to reduce to virtually zero. It is going to be Controlled immigration and that translates into fluctuating immigration to match UK requirements. Fortunately it won't be Andarkian who is in control. But he is going to be upset.

Don Atkinson posted:

Watching David Davis on Question Time last night and a few others including the PM from time to time, it is clear to me that c. 6 million brexit voters are going to be upset. Immigration isn't going to reduce to virtually zero. It is going to be Controlled immigration and that translates into fluctuating immigration to match UK requirements. Fortunately it won't be Andarkian who is in control. But he is going to be upset.

Don, Eloise et al,

Andarkian is very happy to play the long game. The dismantling of the liberal left post WWII social engineering experiment, which has demonstrably failed, has just begun. Andarkian is not about to prescribe or predict all eventualities post Brexit but be assured he will enjoy and appreciate it more than yourselves because we are never going back and you are living on false hope. 

Over and out for today!

andarkian posted:

Don Atkinson posted:

Watching David Davis on Question Time last night and a few others including the PM from time to time, it is clear to me that c. 6 million brexit voters are going to be upset. Immigration isn't going to reduce to virtually zero. It is going to be Controlled immigration and that translates into fluctuating immigration to match UK requirements. Fortunately it won't be Andarkian who is in control. But he is going to be upset.

Andarkian is very happy to play the long game. The dismantling of the liberal left post WWII social engineering experiment, which has demonstrably failed, has just begun. Andarkian is not about to prescribe or predict all eventualities post Brexit but be assured he will enjoy and appreciate it more than yourselves because we are never going back and you are living on false hope. 

Over and out for today!

No deal is better than a bad deal!

WTO rules are acceptable?

Unlimited rice pudding!

Eloise posted:

andarkian posted:

 

 

Over and out for today!

No deal is better than a bad deal!

WTO rules are acceptable?

Unlimited rice pudding!

To keep it musical and slightly Scottish, "If you don't eat yer (Brexit) meat, ye can't have yer (rice) pudding!"  ""Oh! What a tangled web the Remoaners weave, when first they  practice to deceive." 

Go on! You know you love it ��!!!!

Now naff off and let me sleep, perchance to dream.....

andarkian posted:

winkyincanada posted:

andarkian posted:

 

More?

Yes please. Please elaborate on how politicians may be held more accountable after Brexit. What of substance changes with the repeal of roles for ECJ and ECHR? 

I take it that you don't like foreigners.

Well, as you don't like what I have given you I can only suggest that you go and commiserate with Eloise.

I have elaborated endlessly my own reasons for being happy with Brexit and expressed very clearly my own wishes for a post Brexit UK. I am anti EU, very pro Europe (Normandy here I come in May), anti mass immigration, and very much anti SNP.

I think you will find that at least 17.4 million UK citizens agree with me and am never going to be suppressed from or limited in expressing views that are neither extreme or racist. 

You've neither elaborated endlessly nor expressed anything clearly. You've simply spouted populist generalities.

ynwa250505 posted:

winkyincanada posted:

ynwa250505 posted:

MDS posted:

I don't disagree that the EU would benefit from reform but that would be much easier to work for and achieve while being on the inside than the outside.  For me this is a depressing day and one that I think we will come to regret, even if that day is some years off.    

Reform the EU from the inside? Easier? Where have you been for the past 40 years?

This is a day to rejoice! Our destiny is back in our own hands ��

Any examples of what should be done with this new-found (re-claimed) authority?

Anything we choose. That's the whole point! Everything is now in the hands of OUR elected representatives - rather than in the hands of a number of faceless anonymous unelected bureaucrats in another country ... As I said, rejoice !!!

And I think your concerns are better expended on Trudeau's lack of achievement ...

OK. "Anything". That's a fairly general assertion. Give me some examples of where you would start.

Eloise posted:

 I will concede your views on immigration are not extreme.

That's both true and incredibly sad, isn't it?

andarkian posted:

Now naff off and let me sleep, perchance to dream.....

No doubt you’ll be dreaming of Theresa.

(With a bit of luck)

ynwa250505 posted:

winkyincanada posted:

ynwa250505 posted:

 

And I think your concerns are better expended on Trudeau's lack of achievement ...

What does Trudeau have to do with whether or not Brexit is a good idea?

fatcat posted:

andarkian posted:

Now naff off and let me sleep, perchance to dream.....

No doubt you’ll be dreaming of Theresa.

(With a bit of luck)

Ah, Mother Theresa my constant guide and inspiration, which is why I have always led such a faultless, blameless life! And thus I commend me to yourselves ��

andarkian posted:

fatcat posted:

andarkian posted:

Now naff off and let me sleep, perchance to dream.....

No doubt you’ll be dreaming of Theresa.

(With a bit of luck)

Ah, Mother Theresa my constant guide and inspiration, which is why I have always led such a faultless, blameless life! And thus I commend me to yourselves ��

That's Mother Teresa... 

Eloise posted:

That's Mother Teresa... 

She wouldn’t be welcome in this country in this day and age.

 The threat of Turkish immigrants was a Brexit vote winner after all,