Recording from vinyl

Posted by: Steve O on 23 June 2017

Hi,

I'm looking into ways of transferring some of my vinyl collection into digital so I can load it onto a personal player and also maybe to archive, though this is a secondary consideration. 

I recently discovered a shoe-box sized Denon CD Recorder in the loft I'd forgotten I had. It's a very basic unit with record levels and very little else. Virtually a cassette deck but recording onto CD rather than tape. It's from around 2002 ish so i guess there are far better options around now. I've thought of recording onto a hard drive but don't know where to start.

Ideally I just want to connect it to the main rig as you would a cassette recorder. Anyone got any recommendations of either a good recording unit or an alternative?

Thanks in anticipation of your helpful replies.

Regards,

Steve O.

Posted on: 23 June 2017 by Richard Dane

Steve,

a few threads on the subject here:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/ripping-vinyl-1

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...ring-lp-to-pc?page=1

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/recorders?page=1

If you just want a recorder then I can highly recommend one of the Sony PCM recorders (PCM-M10, PCM-D50, or PCM-D100) or else a Marantz PMD661 or 671.  The PMD 661 and 671 are getting on a bit but both are still superb, offering 24bit 96kHz, excellent sound quality, and the 671 offers digital in and out as well as analogue in/outs on RCA phono sockets, so it's just like a digital "tape deck".

Posted on: 23 June 2017 by Steve O

Thanks for that Richard. Time to Google.

Posted on: 23 June 2017 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Steve, more for  note if you archiving, the quality and price for a good ADC is as relevant if not more so than for DACs, though quality ADCs tend to more specialised

Posted on: 23 June 2017 by Innocent Bystander

Another recent thread: https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/digitising-lp-s

 

Posted on: 23 June 2017 by Judge

I got good results with a Citronic USB in-line ADC and Audacity, that cost about £30 off you-know-where.  It's bit of a pain to do frankly, so you'll need to commit to it if you want to spend several £00's on a device.

Posted on: 23 June 2017 by Innocent Bystander

Strange, I didn't find it a pain at all, not much of a hassle (apart from records with a lot of surface noise to fix), and a good process to work through every LP I had (listening as I ripped).

if/when you need it I'll be happy to explain how I removed scratches and clicks where the auto process in Audacity wasn't ideal.

Posted on: 23 June 2017 by Dungassin
Innocent Bystander posted:

Strange, I didn't find it a pain at all, not much of a hassle (apart from records with a lot of surface noise to fix), and a good process to work through every LP I had (listening as I ripped).

if/when you need it I'll be happy to explain how I removed scratches and clicks where the auto process in Audacity wasn't ideal.

I did it using the Audacity Draw Tool.

Posted on: 23 June 2017 by Diver41

I digitised 141 Lps  in 24/96 FLAC format

Using the HRT LineStreamer and Vinyl Studio Software + AQuest Coffee USB cable--- 

Easy peasy

D41

Posted on: 23 June 2017 by audio1946

  vinyl studio excellent software £20  LINKED with ps audio phono stage.   handy for special vinyl transfers

Posted on: 24 June 2017 by Steve O

Are there any solutions where I just have the recorder/converter sat in the system, just like a tape deck and then record to it? 

I have looked at the Marantz and Sony options Richard gave but they're either out of production or don't connect in this simple manner. If it isn't as convenient as a tape deck I know I won't do it regularly enough to justify an outlay.

A couple of Tascam products appear to fit the bill but are pricey.

Regards,

Steve O.

Posted on: 24 June 2017 by Richard Dane

Steve, the Marantz PMD 671 is probably closest to what you want, records up to 24bit 96kHz, and also mimics a 3 head deck by monitoring the either source or recording, although with the addition of one 3.5mm jack to RCA adaptor (Audioquest make a good one) then the PMD661 is just as good in performance but without the "off tape" recording monitoring.  I use a 661 like a tape deck and it's so easy to use.  Here's a picture of it sat on top of an actual tape deck (Denon DR-M44HX) so you can see how the Naim/Chord tape interconnect is connected.

The PMD671 is harder to find although you can still buy one new from some Pro audio suppliers, but at a cost.  A better idea would probably be to buy a mint used or refurbished one (plenty in the US and Canada) for around £150-200.

Here's a picture of a 671 from the web so you can see the analogue RCA and XLR in/outs.  The other side has coaxial RCA digital in/outs.  You can actually have this one sat within a rack and useable.



I'm afraid I'm not such a fan of the Tascam machines, although the latest MkIII version of the DR100 may be worth a look. I do like the Marantz machines though - they aren't without their quirks or annoyances (they can be fussy over cards) but they feel good, are proper professional kit, are nicely made (in Japan), with excellent sound.

Posted on: 24 June 2017 by Klyde

I found digitally reducing removing surface noise on "ripped" vinyl files to be extremely time consuming. In the end I would only do it for LP's I was unable to replace digitally. I also noticed that the music was somehow robbed of it's liveliness, in the process, especially by the noise reduction.

Posted on: 24 June 2017 by Richard Dane

Yup, I find that any "post processing" tends to just take me further from the original recording.  For records I just clean the LP as well as I can and then record with warts and all.  A great record player tends to allow you to focus on the music rather than any vinyl faults so de-clicking or noise reduction shouldn't be necessary.

Posted on: 24 June 2017 by Innocent Bystander

I found that removing clicks  (scratches etc) using audacity quite easy and with no downside that I could hear except in exreme cases, though with anything other than very minor ones it was more effective manually rather than using the auto removal tool. But yes, general background noise whether due to wear or possibly ingrained dust i found couldn't be removed without adversely affecting the sound quality, so was only worth it for albums that were unobtainable in digital format, and then subject to deciding what degree of noise removal still left the character of sound intact, which indeed more often than not was none or very little.

Posted on: 24 June 2017 by Innocent Bystander
Steve O posted:

Are there any solutions where I just have the recorder/converter sat in the system, just like a tape deck and then record to it? 

I have looked at the Marantz and Sony options Richard gave but they're either out of production or don't connect in this simple manner. If it isn't as convenient as a tape deck I know I won't do it regularly enough to justify an outlay.

A couple of Tascam products appear to fit the bill but are pricey.

Regards,

Steve O.

If your preamp has a tape output, that can be connected to the ADC, leaving the rest of the system unchanged. (THat is how I did it).

Posted on: 24 June 2017 by Norton

I experimented with this a few months back.  Just connected the tape out from my (phono equipped) preamp to the basic motherboard analogue audio input on a PC using a stereo RCA>3.5 adaptor and recorded using Vinyl Studio.  Really easy to use software (you can record up to  5 albums as a free demo ) and I have to say the results were absolutely excellent without even  bothering with a separate ADC. 

Posted on: 24 June 2017 by Joff
Richard Dane posted:

Yup, I find that any "post processing" tends to just take me further from the original recording.  For records I just clean the LP as well as I can and then record with warts and all.  A great record player tends to allow you to focus on the music rather than any vinyl faults so de-clicking or noise reduction shouldn't be necessary.

Absolutely agree, side A and side B is you need.

Posted on: 24 June 2017 by av in bc

i tried with an Apogee dac to a mac and the results were ok but kind of painstaking so i got a used Tascam 900 recorder for about 200$CAN

and the cd's sound a lot better and i mean a lot also, just as easy as making tapes and a great "fade" feature when doing a mix.

Posted on: 25 June 2017 by Joff

I use a Behringer UCA202 with Audacity. Not the last word in high resolution but good enough for mobile music.

Posted on: 25 June 2017 by Steve O

Thanks for all the replies guys, very much appreciated.

Posted on: 26 June 2017 by Steve O

Mainly for Richard Dane.

I have looked around for the Marantz recorders and found the PMD 671 to be costing as much used as the PMD 661 is new. i am sorely tempted to by the 661 new. If you're happy with it and it's easy to use I'm sure it would suit me down to the ground. Ease of operation/use is a major factor here.

If I did decide to buy one of these how would I connect it to my 252? You mentioned a 2 RCA to mini jack Audioquest cable - this is for the signal into the device, right? Where would I connect the RCA's? I have an old (Flashback Sales) 5 pin DIN to 4 x RCA from when I had a tape deck. If I stuck a 2 x RCA to mini jack adaptor on this that would work wouldn't it?

Thanks for your help once again and apologies for needing so much guidance.

Regards,

Steve O.

 

Posted on: 26 June 2017 by Richard Dane

Steve, the Marantz PMD661 is a great bit of kit and easy to use and make great recordings.  IIRC Richard Black reviewed it a few years back for Hifi Choice magazine and was really impressed, concluding that it made high quality recordings on a par with kit that would have cost thousands not that many years earlier.

I use a Chord Chrysalis 4 x RCA Phono to DIN5 interconnect.  The single ended analogue output on the 661 is via a pair of RCAs (so a straightforward connection), however the single ended analogue input is on a 3.5mm stereo socket.  For this I use an Audioquest 3.5mm to RCA adaptor (costs about a tenner and is of much better quality than the usual cheapies);

Eventually I may make up a custom interconnect with RCAs on the output and a 3.5mm jack on the input, but the above is working well without having to butcher anything or get out the soldering iron.

Anyway, the DIN5 end of the interconnect just connects into one of the tape loop in/outs on the 552. 

Remember to set up your recordings for whatever resolution you desire - best available with the 661 is 24bit 96kHz WAV, which is probably ample for vinyl rips - and be careful to keep peaks just below 0dB on the recording levels.

I usually then import the resulting file into Audacity on a computer to make any necessary edits and to chop the file into individual tracks, then into dBpoweramp to add metadata, album art, recording notes etc..  

Posted on: 26 June 2017 by Steve O

Many thanks for that Richard.

Posted on: 26 June 2017 by Steve O

Is dBpoweramp available free or does it need to be purchased? Have only found a "Trial" version so far ....

Regards,

Steve O.

Posted on: 26 June 2017 by Richard Dane

I paid for it some years back.  There are plenty of other options that are free though.