Bitcoin

"but if you know the rules of the game, understand her moods and sentiments it is possible to make a huge amount of money in a very short period of time"

Minh, can you let me know, just before, when and where  you're going to make your next 15-20% profit? I'd like to follow the progress.

I'd like to share some tips for the fellow traders out there and anyone interested in having a dabble (do not invest money that you cannot afford to lose). I don't hold investments in BTC/ETH/NEO etc but rather I use them as gateway coins to buy alt coins (AC). I personally like ETH more than BTC because the transaction costs are lower. NEO is even better because it's practically zero commision and you also automatically accumulate GAS for holding NEO (similar to dividends).

Here's a hypothetical example. The current price of ETH is about $830. Imagine that the price of an AC is 0.00072 ETH (which is about $0.60) on Monday. Three days later you see the same AC for 0.00069 ETH but the on screen price is still $0.60. How can this be the possible when there is a 0.00003 difference in the ETH price? It seems like a paradox but the answer is quite simple. The price of the AC hasn't really changed. All that has happened is the price of ETH has risen in value which makes the AC look like it is cheaper. Be very careful with the on screen price! Use it as a guideline but the price that you should be concentrating on is the ETH price because the AC is pegged against the value of ETH. 

Imagine three platforms where the middle and last platforms can go up and down:

$ --- ETH --- AC

Here are some scenarios to consider:

(1) The price of ETH stays the same but the price of the AC doubles in value. When you cash out you make double your money.

(2) The price of ETH doubles and the price of your AC doubles. When you cash out you make quadruple your money.

(3) The price of ETH stays the same but your AC loses 30% in value. When you cash out you will lose 30% of your money.

(4) The price of ETH loses 30% and the price of your AC loses 20%. When you cash out you lose 20% from the AC but you also lose 30% from the reduced price of ETH. This is the worst scenario to be in. Some people will lose almost all of their money from investing in an AC that has been 'pumped' and then 'dumped'. One way of remedying this situation is to hold onto the ETH until it goes back up in value: it might take a while though because the market is so volatile at the moment.

I hope it all makes sense! Happy trading!

count.d posted:

"but if you know the rules of the game, understand her moods and sentiments it is possible to make a huge amount of money in a very short period of time"

Minh, can you let me know, just before, when and where  you're going to make your next 15-20% profit? I'd like to follow the progress.

One of my favorite coins for flipping is called Dragonchain (DRGN). The price can easily swing 10% in one day or even 25%. I've flipped this coin several times, however, you'll need to track the price carefully to make an educated guess at what is considered a good price. In my humble opinion 0.0015 ETH is a good price for DRGN after factoring in the current market conditions. 

Minh, just when you actually do the trade. A simple statement "I've just bought xxx at xxx price" would be suffice thanks. I can then follow the easy 20% rise.

count.d posted:

Minh, just when you actually do the trade. A simple statement "I've just bought xxx at xxx price" would be suffice thanks. I can then follow the easy 20% rise.

I'm afraid it isn't that simple. If I were to advise you to go onto an exchange called Kucoin and buy DRGN today, there's a chance that the market could undergo a correction the next day and you'd be down 15% for example. However, if you don't mind taking the risk, contact me on Telegram and we can exchange ideas. My ID is cryptomole.

PS. If you have a sizeable amount of money to play with ie 5k I can show you how to drive the price of a coin down by using the pieces that are already on the Buy Orders list. Think of it like a game of chess.

Minh Nguyen posted:

 

To the fellow traders out there: I hope you have a good day at market!

No you don't. For every one who has a good day, someone else has a bad day.

Minh Nguyen posted:

 

PS. If you have a sizeable amount of money to play with ie 5k I can show you how to drive the price of a coin down by using the pieces that are already on the Buy Orders list. Think of it like a game of chess.

That is market manipulation and is illegal for good reason in very many contexts.

winkyincanada posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

 

PS. If you have a sizeable amount of money to play with ie 5k I can show you how to drive the price of a coin down by using the pieces that are already on the Buy Orders list. Think of it like a game of chess.

That is market manipulation and is illegal for good reason in very many contexts.

With all due respect, it is not illegal to put in a Buy Order. If someone wishes to sell their stock at the price I am offering it is their choice. No one is putting a gun to their head.

winkyincanada posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

 

To the fellow traders out there: I hope you have a good day at market!

No you don't. For every one who has a good day, someone else has a bad day.

When I entered this market I was a sardine. I watched the whales that had a lot of money commanding their prices. Win some lose some. It's a part of life. We should learn from our experiences.

If you're wondering why I use the term sardine it is because in the sea there are many sardines in comparison to whales.

Minh Nguyen posted:

If you're wondering why I use the term sardine it is because in the sea there are many sardines in comparison to whales.

Indeed, and you can fit more of them in a can.

winkyincanada posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

 

To the fellow traders out there: I hope you have a good day at market!

No you don't. For every one who has a good day, someone else has a bad day.

This analogy could be considered to be incorrect. When I advertised my car for sale I was asking for £1,000. Ten people came to view my car and one person offered me £900. I refused the offer because I thought my car was worth more money. The last person I saw offered me even less: £800. I have two options to consider. If wait until the summer someone is more likely to pay the asking price. However, if I really need the money, I may be inclined to accept a lower offer; this does not necessarily translate to me losing money; perhaps I made less profit than I expected.

winkyincanada posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

 

PS. If you have a sizeable amount of money to play with ie 5k I can show you how to drive the price of a coin down by using the pieces that are already on the Buy Orders list. Think of it like a game of chess.

That is market manipulation and is illegal for good reason in very many contexts.

Maybe you have never heard of the term algo trading (even quant trading)?

Minh Nguyen posted:

winkyincanada posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

 

To the fellow traders out there: I hope you have a good day at market!

No you don't. For every one who has a good day, someone else has a bad day.

This analogy could be considered to be incorrect. When I advertised my car for sale I was asking for £1,000. Ten people came to view my car and one person offered me £900. I refused the offer because I thought my car was worth more money. The last person I saw offered me even less: £800. I have two options to consider. If wait until the summer someone is more likely to pay the asking price. However, if I really need the money, I may be inclined to accept a lower offer; this does not necessarily translate to me losing money; perhaps I made less profit than I expected.

I have no idea what you're trying to demonstrate. But a car isn't like a crypto. A car has value.

winkyincanada posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

winkyincanada posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

 

To the fellow traders out there: I hope you have a good day at market!

No you don't. For every one who has a good day, someone else has a bad day.

This analogy could be considered to be incorrect. When I advertised my car for sale I was asking for £1,000. Ten people came to view my car and one person offered me £900. I refused the offer because I thought my car was worth more money. The last person I saw offered me even less: £800. I have two options to consider. If wait until the summer someone is more likely to pay the asking price. However, if I really need the money, I may be inclined to accept a lower offer; this does not necessarily translate to me losing money; perhaps I made less profit than I expected.

I have no idea what you're trying to demonstrate. But a car isn't like a crypto. A car has value. 2

At the most fundamental level, supply and demand in the market determine the price of an object, be it a stock share, a car, or a bitcoin, or a treasury note, or an ETF, or NAC 552, a NAP 500, or even your house, etc.

winkyincanada posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

Frank Yang posted:

Today is my wife's birthday and GBTC has treated me well, I bought loads of it @ $9.60 on Feb 5th and now it is $19.99 at the close today, a jump of more than 100 % in less than 2 weeks.

My friend is range trading GBTC and has been very happy. (He actually sold at $20.20!) Personally GBTC is too risky for me since it trades at a huge premium over NAV. That premium can dissipate much faster than BTC can crash.

Anyhoo... Congratulations!

NAV? There is no underlying NAV for these things.

GBTC is an ETF that holds BTC. It currently trades at a 70% premium above the value of BTC/share. I think 1 GBTC = .001 BTC and was trading at 20.20 when BTC was around 12,000. So the NAV was only $12.

winkyincanada posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

 

PS. If you have a sizeable amount of money to play with ie 5k I can show you how to drive the price of a coin down by using the pieces that are already on the Buy Orders list. Think of it like a game of chess.

That is market manipulation and is illegal for good reason in very many contexts.

Crypto markets are mostly unregulated so this type of strategy is commonplace.

winkyincanada posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

Frank Yang posted:

Today is my wife's birthday and GBTC has treated me well, I bought loads of it @ $9.60 on Feb 5th and now it is $19.99 at the close today, a jump of more than 100 % in less than 2 weeks.

BTW.... my friend is a professional technical analyst and his new entry point is $10.50.

What on earth does he base that on? Is he a "chartist" that looks for the patterns in the price movements?

Well he works as a technical analyst for a well know financial firm. So I guess he is a "chartist" with a solid background in financial mathematics.

He is pissed at me because I didn't force him to buy BTC when it was $10. ???? Even though I've retained all my text messages from 2012-13 explaining why he should buy BTC; he refuses to believe I ever mentioned it to him. I'm glad he is trading it now (even though I feel the premium above NAV makes GBTC way to risky and have suggested the risk adjusted returns on GBTC are much lower than directly trading BTC. Oh well... he doubled his USD in a few days.)

winkyincanada posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

 

To the fellow traders out there: I hope you have a good day at market!

No you don't. For every one who has a good day, someone else has a bad day.

What? That simply is not true. 

Minh Nguyen posted:

I've been trading cryptos for the past 3 months. It is not my intention to boast or advocate others to follow my example, but let's just say that I made more money in one day than I made in a month from what could be considered a good salary. People often talk of their gains but not of their losses. Fortunately for me I haven't lost any money yet, but it's advisable to never say never.

For those thinking of entering the market it is a risky proposition but if you know the rules of the game, understand her moods and sentiments it is possible to make a huge amount of money in a very short period of time. For example, where else can you flip an investment within 24 hours for 20% profit? By compounding the returns the funds can accumulate quickly. However, a sizeable investment is required otherwise it could take months to see a reasonable return.

There is a big difference between having £500 invested and seeing the value drop 15% as opposed to having £50,000 and seeing its value depreciate. This game is not for everyone. In essence it is an enormous ponzi scheme: for the value of a coin to go up in value people must be willing to pay a higher price and increase the market cap. 

To the fellow traders out there: I hope you have a good day at market!

Please don't call BTC a Ponzi Scheme. It is not based on fraud and/or deception. The markets are a bit susceptible to manipulation but the impact any individual can have day-to-day on market price will decrease over time.

Kevin Richardson posted:

winkyincanada posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

 

To the fellow traders out there: I hope you have a good day at market!

No you don't. For every one who has a good day, someone else has a bad day.

What? That simply is not true. 

Where then, does the money come from?

Kevin Richardson posted:

winkyincanada posted:

Kevin Richardson posted:

Frank Yang posted:

Today is my wife's birthday and GBTC has treated me well, I bought loads of it @ $9.60 on Feb 5th and now it is $19.99 at the close today, a jump of more than 100 % in less than 2 weeks.

My friend is range trading GBTC and has been very happy. (He actually sold at $20.20!) Personally GBTC is too risky for me since it trades at a huge premium over NAV. That premium can dissipate much faster than BTC can crash.

Anyhoo... Congratulations!

NAV? There is no underlying NAV for these things.

GBTC is an ETF that holds BTC. It currently trades at a 70% premium above the value of BTC/share. I think 1 GBTC = .001 BTC and was trading at 20.20 when BTC was around 12,000. So the NAV was only $12.

What is happening there is that what appears to be an arbitrage opportunity may, in fact, be unrealisable at an appropriate level of risk due to frictional costs and counter-party risk in the period between deal and settlement. If it is a genuine arbitrage opportunity, the market should quickly correct the pricing. If the market is inefficient, and you're sharp, yes you can can profit. But I'll reiterate that trading is a less-than-zero-sum game and any profit is, and must be, someone else's loss. This is particularly true in crypto, where the things being traded have zero fundamental value, so market-making and the correct pricing of capital is not a relevant, nor useful outcome.

Frank Yang posted:

winkyincanada posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

winkyincanada posted:

Minh Nguyen posted:

 

To the fellow traders out there: I hope you have a good day at market!

No you don't. For every one who has a good day, someone else has a bad day.

This analogy could be considered to be incorrect. When I advertised my car for sale I was asking for £1,000. Ten people came to view my car and one person offered me £900. I refused the offer because I thought my car was worth more money. The last person I saw offered me even less: £800. I have two options to consider. If wait until the summer someone is more likely to pay the asking price. However, if I really need the money, I may be inclined to accept a lower offer; this does not necessarily translate to me losing money; perhaps I made less profit than I expected.

I have no idea what you're trying to demonstrate. But a car isn't like a crypto. A car has value. 2

At the most fundamental level, supply and demand in the market determine the price of an object, be it a stock share, a car, or a bitcoin, or a treasury note, or an ETF, or NAC 552, a NAP 500, or even your house, etc.

Price doesn't equal value.

Kevin Richardson posted:

Please don't call BTC a Ponzi Scheme. It is not based on fraud and/or deception. The markets are a bit susceptible to manipulation but the impact any individual can have day-to-day on market price will decrease over time.

It is a variation of a Ponzi scheme in which everyone who is playing already knows it is a Ponzi scheme. So the fraudulent nature of a "traditional" Madoff-style ponzi is arguably absent.