Jazz tips?

meta data will be a problem with these cheap box sets.  always clean old cds with marks etc, micro cloths are good for this

Bob the Builder posted:

My intension is to  build an extensive Jazz library by taking advantage of the very cheap CD's available but I am a bit of a newbie when it come to Jazz CD's for instance are there labels to avoid like  DOL and Doxy who turn out Cheap Jazz vinyl reissues that are just terrible.

Yes, by all means avoid those that you mention and many other nameless 'Made in EU' clones.

Best to stick with known labels which will be evident on the box - Columbia, Atlantic, Verve etc., and usually Sony or Universal as the current behemoths. They will be a bit more expensive than the EU clones but worth it.

No better place to start than here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Perfe...QL70_&dpSrc=srch

Or here: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Heavy...QL70_&dpSrc=srch

 Or you could of course just stream from Spotify etc., and save quite a bit of time while discovering.

Use a unitiserve ...

Avoid the rip-off CDs at all costs.  The Sources are often dubious.  You may get lucky, but more likely is that you may not. There are plenty of great Jazz CDs available secondhand.  In particular look out for the earlier pre-RVG Blue Note CDs. Oh, and don't forget the best of British Jazz either.  Get the Gilles Peterson Impressed volumes 1 and 2 to give you a great sample of what's out there.  Then look for Ian Carr and Don Rendell's Shades of Blue/Dusk Fire on CD - a total bargain at under a tenner, and two of the most sublime jazz albums of all time.

p.s. Due to the direction this thread has taken from the off, I'm going to change the thread title to something more appropriate here and also move this to the music room.  You may wish to start a separate thread in the streaming audio room regarding metadata and ripping etc.. 

Do you know what sort of Jazz you like?  Go to some gigs and use streaming first.

Daveas posted:

Do you know what sort of Jazz you like?  Go to some gigs and use streaming first.

Exactly. I could give the OP a list of albums which he may, or may not like. Frankly, recommending particular albums is a waste of time unless they are acknowledged classics, e.g. Louis Armstrong Hot 5 and 7, Duke Ellington Blanton/Webster Years, Charlie Parker Dial/Spotlite recordings, Sonny Rollins "Saxophone Colossus", Miles Davis "Kind of Blue".

What got you into jazz? Follow your nose (or is it ears?).

Allmusic.com is the best on-line information source, coupled with a good streaming service, e.g. Spotify, should keep you going.

The best online source for cheap CDs is the musical magpie site.

Happy listening.

Dave

PS It Don't Mean A Thing If It Ain't Got That Swing

Whilst warning against those dire box sets, they turn up daily in charity shops and may be a cheap introduction.

If you like reading there are a number of Penguin guides.

If in the UK organisations like U3A often have appreciation groups.

notnaim man posted:

If in the UK organisations like U3A often have appreciation groups.

Pity the OP doesn't live near Stubbington (Fareham), he could join one of my two (2) U3A Jazz Appreciation groups.

Dave

Daveas posted:

Do you know what sort of Jazz you like?  Go to some gigs and use streaming first.

Firstly thank you to everone who took the time to reply.  I love Kind of Blue and In a Silent Way but that is really it as far as Miles goes some of the later stuff like Bitches Brew goes way over my head and lots of his earlier Be Bop stuff is too fast and has way too much going on,  similarly Coltrane I love some like Ballads, Coltrane, Soultrane and Blue trane but again the faster more complex stuff just isn't for me.

I love Gene Ammons, Ben Webster, Ike Quebec, Grant Green, Kenny Burrell, Ahmad Jamal, late Chet Baker, some Art Pepper, I love In Search or....... by Lee Morgan but again his faster stuff isn't for me.  Love Oscar Peterson especially Night Train and of course Ella, Billie and Sarah Vaughan.

I have listed the artists as I am a relative Jazz newbie and don't really know the musical terms and styles but in a nutshell I suppose I prefer the slower jazz of Ammons and Quebec to the faster styles of Dizzy Gilespie and Charllie Parker although a list of my top ten favourite Jazz Lp's would have at least five titles by Miles Davis and John Coltrane.

Any tips are very welcome and yes I always stream titles first.

And thanks Richard I will check out some British Jazz, I'm aware of Giles Peterson and saw him DJ many times in my younger days.

SamS posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

My intension is to  build an extensive Jazz library by taking advantage of the very cheap CD's available but I am a bit of a newbie when it come to Jazz CD's for instance are there labels to avoid like  DOL and Doxy who turn out Cheap Jazz vinyl reissues that are just terrible.

Yes, by all means avoid those that you mention and many other nameless 'Made in EU' clones.

 

I will never get used to Brits speaking of 'EU' as if it was another continent.... You are priceless.

A little documentation before sentencing, perhaps, Your Honor?

https://www.discogs.com/it/label/168208-Doxy

https://www.discogs.com/label/735743-Vinylogy-LLC

Fopp shop always have a large section of jazz, mostly those as a collection of several albums over a couple of discs that are just £3 or £5. I have never had any issues with poor quality as they are official releases.    Worth a good rummage.

By ruling out Dizzy and Bird you are effectively ruling out bebop. I don’t think you need to do that. It just requires more listening. I usually find those styles or artists which I don’t like at first often turn out to be the ones with longest lasting appeal.

You also mention Bitches Brew. This is a major milestone of jazz fusion, but again one you really need to spend time with. Personally, I adore the music Miles was producing around 1969-70.

To answer your question though I would recommend the Penguin Guide. There is also one I have from Gramophone, which is slimmer and may be more appropriate for a beginner. 

Jazz Record Requests on BBC Radio 3 at (usually) 4pm on a Saturday usually plays a broad spectrum of jazz. Why not listen to that to see what appeals?

Bob the Builder posted:

Daveas posted:

Do you know what sort of Jazz you like?  Go to some gigs and use streaming first.

Firstly thank you to everone who took the time to reply.  I love Kind of Blue and In a Silent Way but that is really it as far as Miles goes some of the later stuff like Bitches Brew goes way over my head and lots of his earlier Be Bop stuff is too fast and has way too much going on,  similarly Coltrane I love some like Ballads, Coltrane, Soultrane and Blue trane but again the faster more complex stuff just isn't for me.

I love Gene Ammons, Ben Webster, Ike Quebec, Grant Green, Kenny Burrell, Ahmad Jamal, late Chet Baker, some Art Pepper, I love In Search or....... by Lee Morgan but again his faster stuff isn't for me.  Love Oscar Peterson especially Night Train and of course Ella, Billie and Sarah Vaughan.

I have listed the artists as I am a relative Jazz newbie and don't really know the musical terms and styles but in a nutshell I suppose I prefer the slower jazz of Ammons and Quebec to the faster styles of Dizzy Gilespie and Charllie Parker although a list of my top ten favourite Jazz Lp's would have at least five titles by Miles Davis and John Coltrane.

Any tips are very welcome and yes I always stream titles first.

And thanks Richard I will check out some British Jazz, I'm aware of Giles Peterson and saw him DJ many times in my younger days.

Bob

I apology for my previous post as it probably appeared patronising. You obviously know your jazz and you are asking about the quality of current CD releases.

I think Sams has answered your question (EU references apart). A lot of this music is available on a multitude of labels, and different packaging, because it's out of copyright. I personally stick to the major labels who ought to hold the original masters.

You have a nice system, why risk spoiling the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar.

Dave

Oh, sorry. It seems I made the same mistake as Dave. Some of the collected sets are on genuine labels (original such as Riverside, Prestige, Verve, Blue Note etc.) in which case they’re usually totally reliable. As you have indicated there are some rogues, such as DOL, NOT etc. which you’d do best to avoid unless, of course, you just wished to dip a toe to see if it has lasting appeal before investing further. 

This is a fabulous introduction to Jazz

Compilations are sometimes rightly frowned on for good reason,

but this recent release is a well thought out compilation, and a well mastered gem

The vinyl quality is superbly pressed [and Made here in the EU  ] plus the mastering is really excellent.

Debs

Max_B posted:

I will never get used to Brits speaking of 'EU' as if it was another continent.... You are priceless.

A little documentation before sentencing, perhaps, Your Honor?

https://www.discogs.com/it/label/168208-Doxy

https://www.discogs.com/label/735743-Vinylogy-LLC

Max - I was merely quoting what is on the label of most of these 'Copyright Loophole' CD box sets. For all you or I know some of them may even come from the UK. Not sure why you chose to infer something sinister in this.

For the record, Your Honour, I am not a Brit. Have a nice day !

What is cheap in your book? Maybe you are better of directly buying downloads which you can store on your hard disk drive. Saves you time for ripping and tagging ... 

Using Qobuz for instance you get access to tons of often competitively prized downloads even in hi-res quality.  Having an abonnement you could first stream and listen to whatever you want and afterwards buy - sometimes discounted. Their app is quite comfortable and informative letting you search by genres or even releases which have received awards in print media etc. 

Besides that - here a few tips for newer Jazz releases that caught my attention and ears when not listening to Coltrane, Evans, and all the (other) glorious Blue Note and Impulse stuff ... 

Jeremy Pelt - Make Noise

We Out There Sampler

Cecile McLorin Salvant - Dreams And Daggers 

Ahmad Jamal - Marseille

Jamie Branch - Fly Or Die

Christian Scott - The Centennial Trilogy

Ambrose Akinmusire - A Rift In Decorium, Live At Village Vanguard

Thelonious Monk - The Complete Prestige 10-Inch LP Collection / Les Liaisons Dangereuses

Preservation Hall Jazz Band - So It Is

Billy Childs - Rebirth

Bobo Stenson Trio - Contra La Indecisión 

Kari Ikonen Trio 

The Juju - Exchange

Shabaka And The Ancestors - Wisdom Of Elders

Best regards 

dave4jazz posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

Daveas posted:

Do you know what sort of Jazz you like?  Go to some gigs and use streaming first.

Firstly thank you to everone who took the time to reply.  I love Kind of Blue and In a Silent Way but that is really it as far as Miles goes some of the later stuff like Bitches Brew goes way over my head and lots of his earlier Be Bop stuff is too fast and has way too much going on,  similarly Coltrane I love some like Ballads, Coltrane, Soultrane and Blue trane but again the faster more complex stuff just isn't for me.

I love Gene Ammons, Ben Webster, Ike Quebec, Grant Green, Kenny Burrell, Ahmad Jamal, late Chet Baker, some Art Pepper, I love In Search or....... by Lee Morgan but again his faster stuff isn't for me.  Love Oscar Peterson especially Night Train and of course Ella, Billie and Sarah Vaughan.

I have listed the artists as I am a relative Jazz newbie and don't really know the musical terms and styles but in a nutshell I suppose I prefer the slower jazz of Ammons and Quebec to the faster styles of Dizzy Gilespie and Charllie Parker although a list of my top ten favourite Jazz Lp's would have at least five titles by Miles Davis and John Coltrane.

Any tips are very welcome and yes I always stream titles first.

And thanks Richard I will check out some British Jazz, I'm aware of Giles Peterson and saw him DJ many times in my younger days.

Bob

I apology for my previous post as it probably appeared patronising. You obviously know your jazz and you are asking about the quality of current CD releases.

I think Sams has answered your question (EU references apart). A lot of this music is available on a multitude of labels, and different packaging, because it's out of copyright. I personally stick to the major labels who ought to hold the original masters.

You have a nice system, why risk spoiling the ship for a ha'p'orth of tar.

Dave

Apologies for getting the wrong end of the stick from me too.

Try Cannonball Adderley,  Blues and The Abstract Truth by Oliver Nelson and for a Brit almost anything by Jim Mullen, a terrific guitarist if you don't know him.

Dave

zikarus posted:

What is cheap in your book? Maybe you are better of directly buying downloads which you can store on your hard disk drive. Saves you time for ripping and tagging ... 

Using Qobuz for instance you get access to tons of often competitively prized downloads even in hi-res quality.  Having an abonnement you could first stream and listen to whatever you want and afterwards buy - sometimes discounted. Their app is quite comfortable and informative letting you search by genres or even releases which have received awards in print media etc. 

Besides that - here a few tips for newer Jazz releases that caught my attention and ears when not listening to Coltrane, Evans, and all the (other) glorious Blue Note and Impulse stuff ... 

Jeremy Pelt - Make Noise

We Out There Sampler

Cecile McLorin Salvant - Dreams And Daggers 

Ahmad Jamal - Marseille

Jamie Branch - Fly Or Die

Christian Scott - The Centennial Trilogy

Ambrose Akinmusire - A Rift In Decorium, Live At Village Vanguard

Thelonious Monk - The Complete Prestige 10-Inch LP Collection / Les Liaisons Dangereuses

Preservation Hall Jazz Band - So It Is

Billy Childs - Rebirth

Bobo Stenson Trio - Contra La Indecisión 

Kari Ikonen Trio 

The Juju - Exchange

Shabaka And The Ancestors - Wisdom Of Elders

Best regards 

 

Good list - inspired by Billy Childs...

You can add so many greats of jazz artists like

Sonny Rollins

Grant Green

Lee Morgan 

.........etc

and some newer ones

TingVall Trio

E.S.T.

Trioscence

Helge Lien Trio

.....

Too much to mention...

Shades of Blue/Dusk Fire is a zinger - great recommendation.

If you know Gilles Peterson, guessing you know Jez Nelson’s show on Jazz FM. Bit more of a purist than GP I’d say and a good mix of new and old. His show on R3 was also a good one, but the archives don’t seem to be available on iplayer. Budget effort from the Beeb.  

Ps. While I was checking the R3 archives, I was reminded of BBC4 Originals series which includes an episode on Stan Tracey. A good watch/listen.

Separately, the series has a perhaps surprising sub-theme of: if you thought those 1970s heavy rock bands were dissolute, check out these jazz and folk nutters! 

A list of twelve albums I have played recently and that I can easily recommend.  They can all be found on TIDAL and I have listened to them all recently either streamed or from my NAS. 

Florent Nisse - AUX MAGES (listened to this for the 1st time the other day and loved it)

Tomasz Stanko Quartet - Soul of Things (I enjoy Tomasz music quite, lots of albums to find and give a listen)

Eberhard Webber - Little Movements (I don't think I have found an album from Eberhard that I have not enjoyed)

Joe Henderson - Mode for Joe (one of the first jazz players I ever listened to, never stopped enjoying his music)

Avishai Cohen - Introducing Triveni (Another trumpet player along with Tomasz that I really enjoy listening to, quite enjoyable)

Jan Garbarek - Magico --- Cara de Amor (I could easily place Jan at the top of the list on any given day, this album with Charlie Haden & Egberto Gismonti is one that should not be missed.)

Jon Balke - Siwan Nahnou Houm (Jon is another artist who I have come to enjoy all of his albums, enjoy his introduction of different instruments  and vocals from various cultures into his compositions)

Charlie Haden & Pat Metheny beyond the Missouri Sky (Two musicians who I find enjoyable and can be found leading and participating in many albums 

John Scofield - time on my hands (Love John's guitar playing and being accompanied by Joe Lovano, Charlie Haden, and Jack DeJohnette is worth the time to give it a listen.

Ron Miles - I Am A Man (Ron is a wonderful horn player and composer and enjoy his music and have seen him play with Wayne Horwitz who I also enjoy quite a bit).

Bill Frisell - Small Town (Bill is a fantastic guitarist and composer who has played across every genre of music)

Anouar Brahem Trio - Astrakan Cafe (Anouar's playing of the Oud along with other middle eastern instruments have introduced a style of jazz that I find thoroughly enjoyable)

Good luck with building your Jazz collection. A lot of fun to be had in the journey!

(p.s.) Just finished playing Tord Gustavsen - What Was Said and I enjoy all of his work and just starting up Bill Frisell's latest album - Music IS.

Frenetic and challenging jazz can be a workout, and Hank Mobley's "Workout" and " Another Workout " are super to Channel that hard bop soul jazz.

I’ll see your Hank Mobley and raise you an Ornette Coleman. Saw him at the Barbican in the early 2000s and as much as I wanted to be impressed, it felt like a head pummeling! Moral, for me at least, take the journey a step at a time. And enjoy!