Uniti Atom/Nova/Star - New firmware - March/April 2018 Comments

 I went from  2.3 to to 2.31 then to 2.6 at first. Then back to 2.3 and then straight to 2.6 as there is no option. I assume it installs both on updating? It does take a long time to install and seems to do it in two stages. 

Sorry [@mention:73652630748744533] I definitely did not get used to how it initially sounded, I didn't even try it for long as it was instantly horrible to listen to.  2,3 sounded different when I went back and then 2.6 on upgrading again sounded more like 2.3 but with added detail. 

nbpf posted:

TallGuy posted:

...

I can't think of a reason why the update should produce different sonic results for different devices, there should be enough error checking to ensure it's installed correctly. A fault in the routines should surely have affected all installations of the software. I'd have thought "incorrectly applied" software would brick the thing, not change the SQ. I do hope we get to find out.

Have you ever written software for non-trivial systems?

Yes, actually I have, and I have used formal methods too. I've tested far more than I've written too. When I said different devices I meant differnet Novas, or different Atoms, etc. An error should be repeatable because you're running the same code on the same target effectively unless there had been a hardware change between those targets. The more obvious errors, and this would include random errors, should be weeded out pretty early in the test process as you won't get the same result on different runs of the same test. 

Anyway I'd rather leave the ex-day job as that  - ex - and forget about it now I no longer need to do it; the point remains that we don't know why the results from upgrade vary apparently widely between people - seems to be very great for an error which went unmissed, or un-noticed.We can pontificate as much as we like (and at 7 pages and countinng it looks as though we are), but only Naim will find the answer and they have no commercial reason to tell us.

SimonPeterArnold posted:

 I went from  2.3 to to 2.31 then to 2.6 at first. Then back to 2.3 and then straight to 2.6 as there is no option. I assume it installs both on updating? It does take a long time to install and seems to do it in two stages. 

Sorry [@mention:73652630748744533] I definitely did not get used to how it initially sounded, I didn't even try it for long as it was instantly horrible to listen to.  2,3 sounded different when I went back and then 2.6 on upgrading again sounded more like 2.3 but with added detail. 

So seems unlikely that it had anything to do with 2.3.1 then.

I've mentioned before that 2.3.1 seemed and odd release to me a mere 2 weeks prior to 2.6 - surprising that both must have been developed almost in parallel if the development/testing takes such a long time.

I upgraded to 2.6 again, I did spend a week plus with 2.6 before the downgrade was offered.

I asked the Apple vs Android question, as this time I upgraded via my iPoo, sorry iPad, interesting the status bar was already at ~90% installed which I found odd.

Again I find 2.6, initially engaging, but immediately notice over blown bass that drowns out soundstage (I always stayed with Naim for fast, tight, controlled and not boom box bass), after a while again sound if bright, harsh, not engaging and no mojo.

Question i asked very early on, what was the reason for the sound upgrade, to squeeze the best from the Nova/Atom/Star or now the NDX2 and NDS555 are coming on line to reset the upgrade path, so rather that ultimate sound, more downgrading to retain a greater pecking order.

I will stay on 2.6 a little longer and go back and stick with 2.3.1.

I never thought I'd say it, but normally I chomp at the bit for any software updates (I.e. mobile, tablet  car, tv ...) but I hope Naim do not keep changing DSP settings, I buy a sound that's what I want, If I want it brighter and more bass, I'd buy a system with tone controls or a spectrum analyser type 80s setup.

Here is the issue ..... I have photos of the info page in the app if Naim support want them

This is my Atom

2.3 Downgrade                                     2.6 update Morning           2.6 update Evening

System Version  2.3.8574                  2.6.9508                                 2.6.9508

Build Version 1522256091               1522256091                          1522256091 

OS Version 2.2.1524                           2.6.2074                                2.6.2074

Boot Version 0.70.20039                    0                                                0

Host Version 1.4.013864                   1.4.013864                           1.4.1.14229

Host BSL1 version 1.0.0.13350         1.0.0.13350                          1.0.0.13350

Host BSL2 version 1.0.8.13502         1.0.8.13502                          1.0.8.13502

DSP version 1.0.2                                1.0.2                                       1.255.59

Remote Host  version 1.1                   1.1                                          1.1

Remote Firmware Version 1.1.21      1.1.21                                     1.1.21

So I updated again this evening and I noticed a huge improvement .... notice the host version has changed in the evening update and the DSP version has also updated.   These didn't update when going from 2.3 to 2.6 this morning.  

I suspect the firmware or update code is flawed because I have always updated the same way update and then factory reset...

Sounds a lot better this time round, I'll need some time to listen to it, but not the usual ugh! that sounds horrible reaction I've been having.                                                                                  

Good find. I know my DSP definitely updated first time because I checked it, but perhaps something else didn't. I would say that you might have found out what the potential issue might be though.

One thing I noticed in this update is that auto power off now works properly for all sources. Previously it would always powerdown when listening to analogue inputs, but not any more.

Perhaps, only Naim can confirm if it is software related or hardware related that an update does not fully take and gives no warning ...

today I was on 2.3 went to 2.6 then back to 2.3 because I found no improvement as per the discussion earlier today. This evening I wanted to test 2.3 vs 2.6 with Tidal and the earlier downgrade warning about  not being able to use ChromeCast  was bugging me.

Luckily I had taken photos of the Info screens this morning and when I saw someone else had a different DSP version the penny dropped. 

EoinKav posted:

Here is the issue ..... I have photos of the info page in the app if Naim support want them

This is my Atom

 

2.3 Downgrade                                     2.6 update Morning           2.6 update Evening

System Version  2.3.8574                  2.6.9508                                 2.6.9508

Build Version 1522256091               1522256091                          1522256091 

OS Version 2.2.1524                           2.6.2074                                2.6.2074

Boot Version 0.70.20039                    0                                                0

Host Version 1.4.013864                   1.4.013864                           1.4.1.14229

Host BSL1 version 1.0.0.13350         1.0.0.13350                          1.0.0.13350

Host BSL2 version 1.0.8.13502         1.0.8.13502                          1.0.8.13502

DSP version 1.0.2                                1.0.2                                       1.255.59

Remote Host  version 1.1                   1.1                                          1.1

Remote Firmware Version 1.1.21      1.1.21                                     1.1.21 

We're clearly thinking along the same lines.

If you go back a page or two you may see I got excited as 2.3 seemed to have DSP 1.0.2

I think it's actually a bug in the app - it doesn't refresh the DSP version until you quit and restart the app even though firmware version is correct - worked the other way too - downgrade to 2.3 and if you don't restart the app it shows DSP 1.255.59 for that.  Fairly sure it's the app anyway - on one attempt I saw this and reset app and power cycled Nova, next time I just restarted the app which then listed the correct DSP version.

EDIT - missed the Host Version bit - may need to check if that did the same as I wasn't really looking at that before.

EoinKav posted:

.... the earlier downgrade warning about  not being able to use ChromeCast  was bugging me.

So was that a red herring?

Sorry so what was the shipped version 2.3?

Then it became 2.3.1 and now 2.6.

I want the original back, checking I posted when 2.3.1 came out there was a deterioration but the chagelog was on HDMI not DSP.

Obsydian posted:

Sorry so what was the shipped version 2.3?

Then it became 2.3.1 and now 2.6.

I want the original back, checking I posted when 2.3.1 came out there was a deterioration but the chagelog was on HDMI not DSP.

2.3 (build 8574) was the 'good one' I had before 'bad' 2.3.1 which was the HDMI/SPDIF update fix that caused you to start the original thread about worse SQ.

Pretty sure were some earlier versions other thna 2.3 - I generally screengrab current settings on devices before updating so may have that somewhere, will check.  I think I saw a list of firmware versions somewhere once but forget where!

Obsydian posted:

 

I want the original back, checking I posted when 2.3.1 came out there was a deterioration but the chagelog was on HDMI not DSP.

Yes, the changelog did not comment on any DSP changes - I can't remember the DSP version for 2.3.1 as I was only screengrabbing firmware version when doing updates, but that was the one that caused a few of us to discuss it.

When I emailed Naim support at that stage I was told there was no way to downgrade (officially supported anyway I assume) and that it would not have affected audio quality at all - we know it did have an effect on the sound.

Alley Cat posted:

Obsydian posted:

Sorry so what was the shipped version 2.3?

Then it became 2.3.1 and now 2.6.

I want the original back, checking I posted when 2.3.1 came out there was a deterioration but the chagelog was on HDMI not DSP.

2.3 (build 8574) was the 'good one' I had before 'bad' 2.3.1 which was the HDMI/SPDIF update fix that caused you to start the original thread about worse SQ.

Pretty sure were some earlier versions other thna 2.3 - I generally screengrab current settings on devices before updating so may have that somewhere, will check.  I think I saw a list of firmware versions somewhere once but forget where!

Yeah thanks recall I started the thread, then disillusioned with the response gave up and stayed off the forum.

Checking my downgrade screen shot, I was given was o/s = 2.2.152 and the DSP = 1.0.2.0, build = 4154.

Obsydian posted:

Alley Cat posted:

Obsydian posted:

Sorry so what was the shipped version 2.3?

Then it became 2.3.1 and now 2.6.

I want the original back, checking I posted when 2.3.1 came out there was a deterioration but the chagelog was on HDMI not DSP.

2.3 (build 8574) was the 'good one' I had before 'bad' 2.3.1 which was the HDMI/SPDIF update fix that caused you to start the original thread about worse SQ.

Pretty sure were some earlier versions other thna 2.3 - I generally screengrab current settings on devices before updating so may have that somewhere, will check.  I think I saw a list of firmware versions somewhere once but forget where!

Yeah thanks recall I started the thread, then disillusioned with the response gave up and stayed off the forum.

Checking my downgrade screen shot, I was given was o/s = 2.2.152 and the DSP = 1.0.2.0, build = 4154.

Maybe that was the original shipping version - I think most of us got 2.3 - at least that was the one I requested as I wanted something prior to 2.3.1 .

Looks a though I got my Nova mid September 2017.

I think that may have shipped iwth firmware 2.1 (8209) and DSP 1

I then seem to have upgraded on 24th Oct 2017 to 2.3 (8574) which was released on Wed 18th October.

I may have skipped 2.2 (152) if it was officially released as I'm generally wary of software/firmware updates when devices I have are working well.

Alley Cat posted:

EoinKav posted:

.... the earlier downgrade warning about  not being able to use ChromeCast  was bugging me.

So was that a red herring?

No, as far as downgrading to 2.3 it reports the firmware is at too low a level to use chromecast.

Chromecast is not listed in the inputs like it is with 2.6.

I'm beginning to think that perhaps the downgrade didn't actually downgrade some component to 2.3 level to allow chromecast to initialise.

Problem is I don't recall seeing the Chromecast warning or any dialogues when I down graded to 2.3 the first time. I factory reset the system and then continued the installation with the app. 

This morning I didn't use the App when I downgraded and reset, I used the remote to continue the installation. The chromecast error screen was shown on the atom display

Bizarre, I have no idea what version I was on prior to 2.3.1. I do hope they make so sense of this, rather than right us all (few of us) as bonkers.

Between HDMI module failing, Max volume issues, then numerous app issues, hardware weekly locks up needing power cyle, now this, I wish I kept my fond memories and never returned to the fold.

Alley Cat posted:

Looks a though I got my Nova mid September 2017.

I think that may have shipped iwth firmware 2.1 (8209) and DSP 1

I then seem to have upgraded on 24th Oct 2017 to 2.3 (8574) which was released on Wed 18th October.

I may have skipped 2.2 (152) if it was officially released as I'm generally wary of software/firmware updates when devices I have are working well.

Same as me I grabbed the 1st one my dealer had (and the another as first was RMA), but the first firmware update I received was 2.3.1.

So assume I am at the original firmware which I prefer.

So in reality we have users upgrading from various different bases, hmmmm.

Alley Cat posted:

EoinKav posted:

Here is the issue ..... I have photos of the info page in the app if Naim support want them

This is my Atom

 

2.3 Downgrade                                     2.6 update Morning           2.6 update Evening

System Version  2.3.8574                  2.6.9508                                 2.6.9508

Build Version 1522256091               1522256091                          1522256091 

OS Version 2.2.1524                           2.6.2074                                2.6.2074

Boot Version 0.70.20039                    0                                                0

Host Version 1.4.013864                   1.4.013864                           1.4.1.14229

Host BSL1 version 1.0.0.13350         1.0.0.13350                          1.0.0.13350

Host BSL2 version 1.0.8.13502         1.0.8.13502                          1.0.8.13502

DSP version 1.0.2                                1.0.2                                       1.255.59

Remote Host  version 1.1                   1.1                                          1.1

Remote Firmware Version 1.1.21      1.1.21                                     1.1.21 

We're clearly thinking along the same lines.

If you go back a page or two you may see I got excited as 2.3 seemed to have DSP 1.0.2

I think it's actually a bug in the app - it doesn't refresh the DSP version until you quit and restart the app even though firmware version is correct - worked the other way too - downgrade to 2.3 and if you don't restart the app it shows DSP 1.255.59 for that.  Fairly sure it's the app anyway - on one attempt I saw this and reset app and power cycled Nova, next time I just restarted the app which then listed the correct DSP version.

 

EDIT - missed the Host Version bit - may need to check if that did the same as I wasn't really looking at that before.

I'm pretty sure I had to add the Uniti Atom as a new device after every update in the app its self.

I can't be absolutely sure, because I wasn't watching for anything very specific, just updating and down grading and took screen shots of the info pages.

This evening I noticed the DSP change and host OS and this has coincided with an improvement in sound quality. I'm a little too fatigued to tell if it's as good as it was with 2.3, it does however sound different then before. I'm noticing voice movement in the stage left to right and visa versa, something I hadn't noticed before. Almost like there is a very slight timing issue with the channels giving a little echo or open-ness.

I was listening to Tidal, Pink's Beautiful Trauma album and the song was "what about us". Give it a listen an see if you notice anything.

I still think it is lacking the Bass at lower levels ... but not as much as I've noticed before. Time will tell.

Mine shipped with 2.3, I skipped 2.3.1 whilst waiting for the multiroom firmware 2.6 a few days later

On my Nova, reverted to 2.3, chromecast is normally working, but no art work and info on de display.

Alley Cat posted:

A few thoughts.

...

There's also food for thought about the potential transient nature of services such as Spotify/Tidal/Chromecast when supported by firmware - those companies ony have to change their APIs for services to cease to function in devices going forwards if a company no longer supports a legacy product and cannot offer updates for continued functionality.  Equally Tidal etc might go bust and the service is no longer there.  I'm sure manyhave seen older DVD/BluRay players with 'apps' lose for example YouTube functionality when APIs changed.  This is not intended as any criticism of nam products it's just the reality of internet services that may change or cease to be available.

True but we should keep in mind that implementing interfaces to internet streaming services at the application software level is probably not a very big deal. I have been using the upmpdcli UPnP renderer for meanwhile more than two years: it integrates support for Tidal and Qobuz quite nicely, is very reliable and is a one-man hobby project. For a company like Naim, coping with API changes and with new internet streaming services should not be a problem, I believe.     

EoinKav posted:

...

2.3 Downgrade                                     2.6 update Morning           2.6 update Evening

System Version  2.3.8574                  2.6.9508                                 2.6.9508

Build Version 1522256091               1522256091                          1522256091 

OS Version 2.2.1524                           2.6.2074                                2.6.2074

Boot Version 0.70.20039                    0                                                0

Host Version 1.4.013864                   1.4.013864                           1.4.1.14229

Host BSL1 version 1.0.0.13350         1.0.0.13350                          1.0.0.13350

Host BSL2 version 1.0.8.13502         1.0.8.13502                          1.0.8.13502

DSP version 1.0.2                                1.0.2                                       1.255.59

Remote Host  version 1.1                   1.1                                          1.1

Remote Firmware Version 1.1.21      1.1.21                                     1.1.21

 ...

I suspect the firmware or update code is flawed because I have always updated the same way update and then factory reset...                                                                     

If upgrading from the same state at different times produces different results, then the upgrading software is certainly defective. However, the above results could also be explained in term of errors in the software that reports information about the device. In either case, it seems that there is something fishy that needs to be understood and corrected. 

nbpf posted:

I have been using the upmpdcli UPnP renderer for meanwhile more than two years: it integrates support for Tidal and Qobuz quite nicely, is very reliable and is a one-man hobby project. 

Could you elaborate on this - I have Qobuz Sublime amd have struggled to get gapless playback for streamed audio - the renders suggests it can do gapless, what other software do you use with it - I have Mac/iOS devices by the way.