Uniti Atom/Nova/Star - New firmware - March/April 2018 Comments

Sky posted:

+1 another dissatisfied 2.6 Atom owner.

My dealer gave me the link and I have moved from 2.3 to 2.6 backwards and forwards (with resets & without). The sound of 2.6 remains different and disliked. Some emails from Naim that do not fill me with confidence that anything will be done (or done anytime soon):

"Why was it changed?"

Software changes are made as software moves on ... this applies to all software and not just that written by Naim. The latest app requires the latest streamer firmware to provide all of its functionality. If you wish to leave your unit frozen at a point in time and not update it then that is your choice to do so however in doing so you will not benefit from any future bug fixes, functionality enhancements or performance improvements.

 

"Why is it worse than 2.3?"

We do not feel that the 2.6 firmware is "worse" than 2.3 - we feel that it is significantly better and the feedback that we have had globally does bear that out as from the thousands of units that have been updated since the 2.6 firmware was released we have had a very small number of complaints that the 2.6 firmware sounds "worse" and we are looking into why it may be that on those units there is a reported issue. Sound quality is very much a subjective thing and as such this is being looked into here but I am afraid it will never be possible to mix-and-match functionality / fixes / firmwares in the way that you are requesting.

 

"Why won’t customers get what they paid for, namely the sound of 2.3 & ‘working’ advertised features in the way of bug fixes (I’m not talking about new features, just the advertised ones when sold)"

We believe that customers are getting what they paid for - a great sounding, well built product that is supported moving forward with functionality enhancements and stability enhancements.

 

Apparently only about 20 users are experiencing this (from another Naim email), I've already started looking around to trade in my Atom for a different brand.

So basically tough it is you (us - 20 of us apparently), this appears to now be an official position, all i have ever been told it we are looking into it. I guess Naim have gone for the "give it a week, and topic will be gone and forgotten".

For those who say yes to the 2.6 change in sound, as firmware changes it will happen again, then another change, then another - leaving a different product than purchased. Some may move with the sound, others i guess have bought Naim for a certain sound.

I must admit i have been talking to dealers about Linn (poison word to me), more to see what other brands do and do they suffer the same issues. Seems Linn did to an extent, but appears most models offer a DSP room adjustment to overcome this.

At the moment, i think i'll go back to classic olive boxes.

Absolutely pathetic and disgusting customer service by naim. If we don't get sound quality and the original power output back in the next update, I'll be seeking legal advice. This isn't exactly a £40 boombox from argos I've paid for here.

Also, if someone doesn't go to the effort to complain, that means they like the new sound? Laughable. Give us back what we paid for, thieves.

I really think it needs to be asked ....

The MD of Naim, Trevor posted in this thread and another to say Naim take this issue seriously and wish to understand what has gone wrong with those affected users / units,  who have complained.

Against this statement, has anyone been contacted directly by Naim support to enquire as to any detail regarding the experience in the upgrade / down grade of the firmware?.

Has anyone been directly asked as to the specifics of the complaint they have regarding the SQ of 2.6?.

Has anyone contacted Naim support to offer such information and what was the response you received, if any?.

I am just curious given the pat answers in the emails people are receiving when they request the downgrade to the firmware.

Contrasted with Trevor's comments ....

"To those that aren't happy i would like to say that we accept your feedback and to tell you that Naim R&D are actively working on understanding your experiences and why it would manifest itself - the team at Naim will assist those in need"

"hello Mercky, i would trust that tech support will contact those whom need support directly"

Surely at this stage some effort to reach out to those who are affected is in order!, or are we to think that Naim has reverted back to consulting with its Beta testing user base for answers rather than the affected users?.

Did Naim initiate contact with me - No.

Has Naim responded to specific concerns i directly raised to them - Yes, but only they are investigating.

Based on this is choose to wait and see.

But @Sky post is a clear departure from that and Naim taking a formal position of majority (beta group and this forum) are happy, the haters are a minority, they will get used to it, or just tuff.

dave-mac posted:

Also, if someone doesn't go to the effort to complain, that means they like the new sound? Laughable. Give us back what we paid for, thieves.

Dave-mac, Naim have stated that they are taking concerns seriously and looking into the matter.  But this takes time as there are so many variables. In the meantime, you can, of course, stick or go back to the previous firmware, so exactly what you bought in the first place. So, I think under the present circumstances, that calling Naim "thieves" is rather excessive, wouldn't you?

As for your own unit, have you been in touch with either Naim or your dealer?  How did your unit compare to their demo one?  It would be interesting to find out and may add a bit of knowledge to situation.

Gents

I've just returned from Munich show. I can honestly state that we aren’t ignoring you and we are taking this seriously. At a meeting this morning in Naim there was very serious conversation that whilst the volume of active complaints is small it’s important and isn’t to be forgotten. The team are listening and working currently

Trevor

Just spent the afternoon listening to the Atom on 2.6 and am now of the opinion that it’s a little harsh on some female vocals. I hadn’t appreciated what some had mentioned in terms of listening fatigue, but now understand as I am sitting watching a movie rather than listening to music.

I went to my dealer before I even registered with Naim Forums, he wasn't happy with the firmware and had downgraded, he passed the 2.3 link to me with instructions on how to downgrade. It's only through this shambolic process that I even bothered registering.

From an earlier Naim email:

... if it were 8,000 reports out of 10,000+ users then it would be much easier to identify but when it is more in the order of 20 reports from 10,000+ users then it is a much more involved process to identify what may be occurring in the specific context of your setup that is not to your liking.

So Naim are claiming they have sold 10,000+ of these units and only 20 have reported an issue - there are at least 20 people on these forums who are dissatisfied - is that how Naim garner feedback, count the number of complainants on their forums?

There must be many people who read these forums and just wait for an update rather than registering or complaining. If my dealer gave me the link for the firmware, he probably has given it to others, if he has done it then other dealers have probably done it - they at least understand keeping customers happy.

It's a very poor way to deal with Naim introduced issues. 

Trevor, are the dealers involved in such a way that specific units can be shipped back to Salisbury.....a dealer unit holding the Fort with the customer. I know I a probably teaching you to suck eggs.

Gazza

Trevor Wilson posted:

Gents

I've just returned from Munich show. I can honestly state that we aren’t ignoring you and we are taking this seriously. At a meeting this morning in Naim there was very serious conversation that whilst the volume of active complaints is small it’s important and isn’t to be forgotten. The team are listening and working currently

Trevor

If Naim take the issue seriously, why aren't they providing upgrades of functionalities and DSP upgrades on different tracks? This is not rocket science and requiring users to adjust to a new sound signature (be this superior or not) in order to take advantage of new functiuonalities is neither fair nor meaningful, in my view.   

What new functionalities?, the 2.6 firmware fixed the multiroom functionality which already supposed to be there but was broken/disabled since shipping.

Yes, slight Improvements in,  multiroom limit from 96kHz to 192kHz, latest roon and spotify library and a soft mute when your streaming music drops out, are about all that was added or improved, hardly extended or new functionality 

Everything else was a fix to improve overall stability on a firmware that was flawed.

Oh!, sorry ... I forgot unless you're referring the functional change in sound to make my £1500 streamer sound like a £100 bluetooth speaker, I'd rather call that dis-functional 

Sky posted:

I went to my dealer before I even registered with Naim Forums, he wasn't happy with the firmware and had downgraded, he passed the 2.3 link to me with instructions on how to downgrade. It's only through this shambolic process that I even bothered registering.

From an earlier Naim email:

... if it were 8,000 reports out of 10,000+ users then it would be much easier to identify but when it is more in the order of 20 reports from 10,000+ users then it is a much more involved process to identify what may be occurring in the specific context of your setup that is not to your liking.

So Naim are claiming they have sold 10,000+ of these units and only 20 have reported an issue - there are at least 20 people on these forums who are dissatisfied - is that how Naim garner feedback, count the number of complainants on their forums?

There must be many people who read these forums and just wait for an update rather than registering or complaining. If my dealer gave me the link for the firmware, he probably has given it to others, if he has done it then other dealers have probably done it - they at least understand keeping customers happy.

It's a very poor way to deal with Naim introduced issues. 

The volume of "active complaints" referred to by Naim may be small but if dealers are taking this kind of action I think Naim would be wise to move fast to manage and resolve this issue. As far as I can see, unlike the 4.6 thread, not many are posting about sound improvements.

Some of us are indeed very happy with the update and wish to thank Naim. Maybe we should hear from some more of them, including myself, or are we too busy listening?

Since I have my Nova I noticed some heavy sound changes. Moving away from the signature sound Naim had. More hifi but no mojo. Whether this is a good thing?

It is not a matter of better or worse as that is a personal preference, fact is the sound has changed for the Uniti line, NDS, 272, the former two have numerous threads on this forum for and against.

Stay focused on the CHANGE of sound, not the fallout (like/dislike/neutral)

As customers we should by law expect a product to be as per sold, in this case all of us bought and paid devices for the Naim sound.

Now we see a departure from that, if people are happy on that path, then fine, but it is unreasonable for those who prefer the original sound to just roll over and except it.

Naim should support the purchased sound (and all future updates) or offer to buy back.

“As customers we should by law expect a product to be as per sold, in this case all of us bought and paid devices for the Naim sound“

Can see this flying in a court of law, any sound is subjective, unfortunately courts only work on facts.

you could argue that at the time it was sold that it exhibited the ‘Naim sound’ however after a few weeks of use the sound does change, so at what point would you measure the ‘Naim sound’?

Granthar posted:

“As customers we should by law expect a product to be as per sold, in this case all of us bought and paid devices for the Naim sound“

Can see this flying in a court of law, any sound is subjective, unfortunately courts only work on facts.

you could argue that at the time it was sold that it exhibited the ‘Naim sound’ however after a few weeks of use the sound does change, so at what point would you measure the ‘Naim sound’?

 

I think if we where talking boom box brands, then it would not fly, but when you are talking audiophile high end brands, who sell based on a certain sound/signature based on dealer demonstration (to determine whether to buy), then yes.

Add to that lengthy forum threads on the CHANGE IN SOUND FROM POINT OF SALE.

Most manufacturers overcome these support issues by discontinuing a line and replacing it with a new one.

So how could you possibly demonstrate this in a court?

and does everyone agree what the ‘Naim Sound’ is?

and wouldn’t listening in a dealers room with their cabling, mains supply and room dimensions give a different sound?

Dealer or home demo = the controlled environment, anything after is a CHANGE

When a Judge is rocking in the court room Yes thats the Naim sound. If he stays as dead  as a dodo, well...thats I suppose the new Uniti sound.

glasnaim posted:

Sky posted:

I went to my dealer before I even registered with Naim Forums, he wasn't happy with the firmware and had downgraded, he passed the 2.3 link to me with instructions on how to downgrade. It's only through this shambolic process that I even bothered registering.

From an earlier Naim email:

... if it were 8,000 reports out of 10,000+ users then it would be much easier to identify but when it is more in the order of 20 reports from 10,000+ users then it is a much more involved process to identify what may be occurring in the specific context of your setup that is not to your liking.

So Naim are claiming they have sold 10,000+ of these units and only 20 have reported an issue - there are at least 20 people on these forums who are dissatisfied - is that how Naim garner feedback, count the number of complainants on their forums?

There must be many people who read these forums and just wait for an update rather than registering or complaining. If my dealer gave me the link for the firmware, he probably has given it to others, if he has done it then other dealers have probably done it - they at least understand keeping customers happy.

It's a very poor way to deal with Naim introduced issues. 

The volume of "active complaints" referred to by Naim may be small but if dealers are taking this kind of action I think Naim would be wise to move fast to manage and resolve this issue. As far as I can see, unlike the 4.6 thread, not many are posting about sound improvements.

Hi Guys,

Unfortunately if a specific dealer is handing out links to download the old firmware then that means that we lose any metric as to the scale of any issue - you may feel that we are not listening or taking notice but there is a lot of R&D effort at this end taking place to evaluate what the contributing factors are and in this instance such an action being taken by a dealer then not only means that we don't have any contact details for anyone they have given the information to that has felt the need to roll back (so when we have a possible solution we can't contact those people directly) but also we don't have their details to count in the number of reports.

As it is I have not seen any reports back from dealers saying that they have experienced sound quality issues - if we had then we would include them so it would be good to find out which dealer "sky" goes to so that we can follow up with them...

An earlier posting from our MD specifically requested that anyone with issues contacts us directly - this is so that we can build and maintain a profile of the issue so that request still stands.

Best

Phil

And there is also the danger that people who requested the downgrade file giving it to other people they know without Naim is aware of this. 

Am I the only one bothered by the output volume drop of ~20%? [@mention:1566878603985147] [@mention:1566878603913713] can you explain this, because putting aside the inferior (IMO) sound of the new firmware, why have you now throttled the units?