Uniti Atom/Nova/Star - New firmware - March/April 2018 Comments

Alley Cat posted:

So the great news is we can revert to older versions and it's fairly simple to do so.

I have just done so and need to A/B a bit when the family aren't being so noisy!

I recommend those of you who feel that the experience changed and you'd like to go back to an earlier version contact Naim support using links here:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/naim-support

Anyone post here how to downgrade, i have emailed and asked in the past and not heard anything back.

Just realized no way to PM anyone 

what a shambles  .  customers must be losing faith.   surely its time for naim to make a statement   ,  whats the F.B from NDX owners , i haven't touched mine yet,..

Obsydian posted:

Alley Cat posted:

So the great news is we can revert to older versions and it's fairly simple to do so.

I have just done so and need to A/B a bit when the family aren't being so noisy!

I recommend those of you who feel that the experience changed and you'd like to go back to an earlier version contact Naim support using links here:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/naim-support

Anyone post here how to downgrade, i have emailed and asked in the past and not heard anything back.

Just realized no way to PM anyone 

Hi Obsydian

I did query if it would be helpful to post the link and instructions sent to me to reduce calls/emails to support but understandably I think they’d rather we didn’t do this as they would then not know directly how many people preferred things before the update.

May I suggest you phone Naim and ask to speak to someone directly - I used the last numeric option ‘something else’ and asked if I could possibly talk to Phil Harris - my original email was sent to support FAO him but was picked up by someone else.  If people are not getting prompt responses to emails they might need to look at that - maybe relevant staff are on leave etc but odd you and a few others had not had replies.

With the ability to compare current/old firmware now I’ll do some better testing in a few days - if I prefer the old one I’ll say so, but equally if little difference I’ll admit It!

Obsydian posted:

Alley Cat posted:

So the great news is we can revert to older versions and it's fairly simple to do so.

I have just done so and need to A/B a bit when the family aren't being so noisy!

I recommend those of you who feel that the experience changed and you'd like to go back to an earlier version contact Naim support using links here:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/naim-support

Anyone post here how to downgrade, i have emailed and asked in the past and not heard anything back.

Just realized no way to PM anyone 

Obsydian,

I would suggest calling or emailing Naim again.  I enquired with Phil and he thinks they have responded to all those who have asked so far.  Each case may be slightly different, so best dealt with on a case by case basis.

Alley Cat posted:

Obsydian posted:

Alley Cat posted:

So the great news is we can revert to older versions and it's fairly simple to do so.

I have just done so and need to A/B a bit when the family aren't being so noisy!

I recommend those of you who feel that the experience changed and you'd like to go back to an earlier version contact Naim support using links here:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/naim-support

Anyone post here how to downgrade, i have emailed and asked in the past and not heard anything back.

Just realized no way to PM anyone 

Hi Obsydian

I did query if it would be helpful to post the link and instructions sent to me to reduce calls/emails to support but understandably I think they’d rather we didn’t do this as they would then not know directly how many people preferred things before the update.

May I suggest you phone Naim and ask to speak to someone directly - I used the last numeric option ‘something else’ and asked if I could possibly talk to Phil Harris - my original email was sent to support FAO him but was picked up by someone else.  If people are not getting prompt responses to emails they might need to look at that - maybe relevant staff are on leave etc but odd you and a few others had not had replies.

With the ability to compare current/old firmware now I’ll do some better testing in a few days - if I prefer the old one I’ll say so, but equally if little difference I’ll admit It!

 

 

Thanks ALLEY CAT - i will wait, as had conversed with Phil before and did email again after seeing your posts, appreciate he's a busy man.

Hi...

Oeps...Just had my Nova in yesterday and updated to the latest firmware. And yes comming from nd5xs, flatcap and nait xs. its harsh, uninvolving, no pratt. etc,,,Hoping this is just a software issue and Naim adresses this soon.

Done - VERY happy, MOJO is back, clearly evident from the 1st track 

fred47 posted:

Hi...

Oeps...Just had my Nova in yesterday and updated to the latest firmware. And yes comming from nd5xs, flatcap and nait xs. its harsh, uninvolving, no pratt. etc,,,Hoping this is just a software issue and Naim adresses this soon.

You waited so long... ruined it direct oh, oh

I would appreciate if someone would post the instructions on how to down grade, if that is not possible on this forum, upload the instructions on Dropbox and post a link here.

I don't have a copy of the 2.3 firmware so where to get that may also be helpful 

It seems an extraordinary waste of time and resources that everyone who wishes to downgrade should have to request the information individually.

EoinKav posted:

I would appreciate if someone would post the instructions on how to down grade, if that is not possible on this forum, upload the instructions on Dropbox and post a link here.

I don't have a copy of the 2.3 firmware so where to get that may also be helpful 

It seems an extraordinary waste of time and resources that everyone who wishes to downgrade should have to request the information individually.

 

Eoin - I'd love to post the link to speed things up for you, but I specifically asked as I surmised they might not want to for several reasons (eg maybe temporary link) , plus the fact they might then not get a feel for numbers who felt things were different.

I'd really be interested in the DSP version in 2.3.1 which was the interim release in late March which had the negative effect for me and prompted Obsydian's earlier thread on this - simply because I thought that was very difficult to listen to, the current one to me is different again, very detailed but not as harsh, but lacking low end especially at lower volumes - if the DSP was the same and nothing else changed the SQ between 2.3.1 and current then I was perhaps getting used to it when played loud though still felt it lacked something special - again I need to A/B current vs old as it's several weeks since 2.3.1.

The one thing I wonder about, assuming it's only the DSP engine that makes a difference to SQ, is whether or not in the future there might be an option of releasing variations of new firmware with only the DSP different, other functionality/bug fixes the same.  Naturally this is a big ask and not even necessarily possible, but no harm suggesting it I suppose.

Also, it might be nice if older firmware was officially accessible from the Naim site without going through support, but I think we as end users would have to accept that this might conflict with functionality in the Naim app (eg max sound/balance levels) if incompatibilities arose.

So long as we are not forced to accept updates automatically in future firmware we could then have the option of updating/reverting according to our tastes assuming firmware is available, while accepting that newest features developments would only be available to users of up to date firmware.

Yes, I'd like some features, but the sound quality would probably be most important for me.

EoinKav posted:

I would appreciate if someone would post the instructions on how to down grade, if that is not possible on this forum, upload the instructions on Dropbox and post a link here.

I don't have a copy of the 2.3 firmware so where to get that may also be helpful 

It seems an extraordinary waste of time and resources that everyone who wishes to downgrade should have to request the information individually.

 

Nice username by the way

Doppelgänger?

Eoink posted:

EoinKav posted:

I would appreciate if someone would post the instructions on how to down grade, if that is not possible on this forum, upload the instructions on Dropbox and post a link here.

I don't have a copy of the 2.3 firmware so where to get that may also be helpful 

It seems an extraordinary waste of time and resources that everyone who wishes to downgrade should have to request the information individually.

 

Nice username by the way

Yes I'm just noticing this now, both Eoins and surnames beginning with K ..... 

Most unusual and rare if anytime have I come across another Eoin on a forum. If it's a problem for you I'll change my username given you were here long before me.

EoinKav posted:

Eoink posted:

EoinKav posted:

I would appreciate if someone would post the instructions on how to down grade, if that is not possible on this forum, upload the instructions on Dropbox and post a link here.

I don't have a copy of the 2.3 firmware so where to get that may also be helpful 

It seems an extraordinary waste of time and resources that everyone who wishes to downgrade should have to request the information individually.

 

Nice username by the way

Yes I'm just noticing this now, both Eoins and surnames beginning with K ..... 

Most unusual and rare if anytime have I come across another Eoin on a forum. If it's a problem for you I'll change my username given you were here long before me.

No problem at all, actually my surname doesn’t start with a K, I live in England so quite a few of my friends nickname me E-oink (2 syllables), it makes for a nice handle on t’Internet. Always nice to have another Eoin around. ????

Thanks Alley Cat,

I didn't want the hassle of explaining my case in an email to Naim Support, but I guess now I have no option than go and request a down grade.

Your symptoms sound exactly like mine, low end seriously lacking at lower volume and medium listening volume of 40 now needs 50-55 to give the same loudness.

Pitty because I was quire enjoying the multi room with the Mu-So ... but that function is not worth it when my main listening system is no longer bringing a smile to my face.

quite a few of my friends nickname me E-oink (2 syllables)

audio1946 posted:

what a shambles  .  customers must be losing faith.   surely its time for naim to make a statement   ,  whats the F.B from NDX owners , i haven't touched mine yet,..

I suspect the Naim fora are no different to many other user to user fora in that Naim development/technical staff probably don't routinely monitor the posts here looking for moans and technical problems, and it's not the job of the moderators to do so either on the whole, just to keep things running smoothly in a reasonably friendly manner.

 Support options are listed in a sticky post.  

I think we all tend to be rather reactive when it comes to discussing perceived issues online with our products and while instant responses/fixes are often expected in the modern world, it's often not feasible or realistically achievable especially when only a small number of us have concerns over the effect of the firmware.

We may be <1%, 5%, 10% of owners - I have no idea, but it's the nature of support fora that people often only come to post when there are issues.  Perhaps that is not the case here so much, as we are more enthusiasts than generic consumers, which is why there are also threads praising the updates on the older Naim streamers on the whole.

The firmware update announcement was here:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/to...o-streaming-products

Have a look at some of the '4.6 firmware update' threads in recent weeks and I'd say that the vast majority of owners of the older devices felt the upgrade was positive and in many cases exceptionally good.

The big difference for the older units was that there was a known mechanism for reverting to older firmware, for owners of Uniti Atom/Star/Nova it was not clear if this was possible hence our angst at a possible update we could not revert.

Again, with small numbers of users thinking there were negative effects of the recent Uniti firmware updates (2.3.1 and 2.6 something), I doubt Naim would be jumping to make any kind of announcement unless it was to advise those 'affected' how to contact support specifically regarding this.

Anyhow have a peep at those 4.6 threads - I hope if you do the update you'll find the benefits many others did with their devices.

I seem to be an outlier here, I did the upgrade when the firmware came out last week, but have been listening through the NDX/olive system. I’m just having my first serious listen to the Nova system since the upgrade. So far I’ve played Gregg Allman’s Southern Blood and now just finishing Led Zep II. System is Nova served by a Synology NAS (216j) running Synology Media Server, NACA5 to PMC 25.23s. 

On the 2 rock albums chosen because I know them well (the Allman played on loop,for 3 weeks while I was running the Nova in) I’m noticing no lack of volume, small room 4m by4.3m, playing at 40 is comfortably loud, I think I was probably at 36 or so before, 55 had me pinned to the chair when I tried it just now.

Bass has extended lower than before, I may even need to move the speakers out a few cm. I’m not noticing a lack of pace or engagement, I seem to have gained some resolution and bass while keeping the presentationI loved. 

I’m going to try a classical piece next.

So far I am very surprised, having read this and preceding threads, I was expecting a significant downgrade in quality, and was debating whether to accept that for the convenience of Multiroom with the NDX and the Qbs. Instead I’d say so far I have a slight uplift. Maybe it’s the speaker/room combination that masks the weaknesses and shows the strengths. It might be what I look for in music that isn’t affected, but I suspect not, the comments about lack of PRAT and drive wouldn’t sit well with someone who ran 135s into ES14s very happily for 25 years.

I really sympathise with you folks who’ve had the opposite experience, losing the joy from your music must be terrible.

Richard Dane posted:

Obsydian posted:

Alley Cat posted:

So the great news is we can revert to older versions and it's fairly simple to do so.

I have just done so and need to A/B a bit when the family aren't being so noisy!

I recommend those of you who feel that the experience changed and you'd like to go back to an earlier version contact Naim support using links here:

https://forums.naimaudio.com/topic/naim-support

Anyone post here how to downgrade, i have emailed and asked in the past and not heard anything back.

Just realized no way to PM anyone 

Obsydian,

I would suggest calling or emailing Naim again.  I enquired with Phil and he thinks they have responded to all those who have asked so far.  Each case may be slightly different, so best dealt with on a case by case basis.

Hi Richard

Could you enquire about the best method for those interested to send feedback in relation to this?

My initial email to support resulted in a reply saying that reverting to an older firmware was not possible so the generic email link may not work for all depending on who picks it up and their product specific knowledge.  

Equally I specifically asked to talk to Phil when I phoned yesterday, he may not mind, but if he gets phone calls every five minutes from those 'affected' or simply curious about reverting it would be no surprise if we eventually lost the ability for such personal contact when we really needed it.

Thanks

Alley Cat

Atom v's Nova perhaps that's why volume @55 seems too loud.

Before the update I was 25-30 for background music while have a conversation and 35-40 while sitting in the chair to enjoy some tracks, now it's 50+ to get some semblance of pre update.

55 gave me slight bass distortion on the MA Silver 100's before the update, but now I can easily get into 65+ before I hear any distortion.

My Atom and MA Silvers were a big upgrade to the Mu-So prior to update, now I'm left thinking the Mu-So is more enjoyable to listen to for ambient background ... if that makes any sense.

Peder posted:

⚫ ALLEY CAT,...Thank's,you have done a great  job with this, giving us all this information ????????????.....and others too❗ 

For me,when I read all this I'm start thinking about Linn here in Sweden.Back in time when you visit a Linn-demo,everyone who was there heard the same,....Better-Worse.....no one have a different feeling about this.

This day's, when Linn goes the "Good enough" way....with no "Attention To Detail" we have two groups here in Sweden when visiting demo's.

◾One group hate all this with Exakt and Space Optimisation.It's Cleaner,Clearer,more Detail,life-style hifi-sound against Music is a good word to use. But, where is the Groove,the Music-feeling that engage you in the music,PrAT if you like the word, the feeling that you will go down on your knees, and playing Air-guitar when you hear a good song/album.....ect,..where have ALL THIS GONE❗ .... now it's just sterile,detail'ed,clean and clear sound.

◾ As you understand,I'm a "member" of this group....and this group are bigger than the other group here in Sweden,the group who like's Exakt and Space-Optimisation systems......AND,...our group gets bigger everyday❗ 

Linn has lost many,many,many costumers here in Sweden because of this......many goes to Naim. Linn's new costumers here in Sweden, is rich people who want's a Beautiful music-system that sounds good,.....(read Good Enough  for us who knows a little more). Linn's earlier costumers here in Sweden,who have built up Linn here,and had been costumer's for say 15 to 35 years and know how music shall be presentationed,and have "hifi-experience".....this costumers leaving Linn for Naim.

???? A question,....if you are at a Concert or listen to a Singer/Songwriter,...are you sitting there and listen if the sound is Cleaner,Clearer,more Detail,d or do you listen to the music and how the musicians engage you into the music...and maybe give you the feeling to dream away for a couple of minutes...❓❓ .....most of us know's the answer ????????????.

???? Back to the firmware upgrade,this different opinions......two groups here,give me the same feelings that I just have write about. I hope that Naim came out with an upgrade so this to groups can "get together" again.

In our smal Swedish-forum,we are 63 real high end-members,5 of them like Linn's new sound with Exakt and Space-Optimisation.......45 of this 63, are earlier Linn-costumers.So Naim,in this case.....listen to your costumers......let us "get together again"

/Peder ???? 

 

Great post Peder - very interesting thoughts.

Interesting to hear about the change in Linn product sound.

I wonder how much a lot of this has to do with accuracy vs preferring a coloured sound reminiscent of analogue days, as I know I prefer the warmth and colouration of the latter?

Alley Cat posted

 

Great post Peder - very interesting thoughts.

Interesting to hear about the change in Linn product sound.

I wonder how much a lot of this has to do with accuracy vs preferring a coloured sound reminiscent of analogue days, as I know I prefer the warmth and colouration of the latter?

 

My main system is an olive 82/Supercap/135s amp fed by an NDX and a Roksan TMS, as you’ll know from the What Are You Listening To thread, the TMS gets probably more use than the NDX, so I am an analogue sound fan. I really sat down tonight expecting to be sorely disappointed in the Nova, I’ve just played a set of the Brandenburgs, and the music was flowing beautifully and sounded perfectly natural tonally. Joni’s Hejira is now on, and Jaco’s bass and Carlton's guitar sound fluid. The main system has always out-performed this one, as it should for the price difference, my main aim was to have a second rig that didn’t leave me feeling the need to go downstairs to hear music. This is my 4th album of the evening and I’m dead happy listening to the Nova/PMCs.

I’m at a real loss to understand why my experience is so different from the majority here, it’s too early in the product cycle surely for significant component variation (mine was an early one, the 1st order my dealer delivered after they fulfilled their pre-orders). 

Eoink posted:

Alley Cat posted

 

Great post Peder - very interesting thoughts.

Interesting to hear about the change in Linn product sound.

I wonder how much a lot of this has to do with accuracy vs preferring a coloured sound reminiscent of analogue days, as I know I prefer the warmth and colouration of the latter?

 

My main system is an olive 82/Supercap/135s amp fed by an NDX and a Roksan TMS, as you’ll know from the What Are You Listening To thread, the TMS gets probably more use than the NDX, so I am an analogue sound fan. I really sat down tonight expecting to be sorely disappointed in the Nova, I’ve just played a set of the Brandenburgs, and the music was flowing beautifully and sounded perfectly natural tonally. Joni’s Hejira is now on, and Jaco’s bass and Carlton's guitar sound fluid. The main system has always out-performed this one, as it should for the price difference, my main aim was to have a second rig that didn’t leave me feeling the need to go downstairs to hear music. This is my 4th album of the evening and I’m dead happy listening to the Nova/PMCs.

I’m at a real loss to understand why my experience is so different from the majority here, it’s too early in the product cycle surely for significant component variation (mine was an early one, the 1st order my dealer delivered after they fulfilled their pre-orders). 

Must admit I'd wondered if there was any component variation myself, I assume not.

I got the Nova (after an Atom) partly as a temporary main solution before I reinstate my Nac 72/active SBLs powered by 2 x NAP 250.  Must admit that for quite some time I was delighted to use that active setup in my AV room with a Pioneer AV amp providing pre-processing and  powering other channels, and that had bags of detail, so I don't think it's a detail/brightness thing per se, somehow the recent firmware removed the emotional enjoyment - I'll happily admit that for many or most it may not have done so but that's how I saw it.

EoinKav posted:

Atom v's Nova perhaps that's why volume @55 seems too loud.

Before the update I was 25-30 for background music while have a conversation and 35-40 while sitting in the chair to enjoy some tracks, now it's 50+ to get some semblance of pre update.

55 gave me slight bass distortion on the MA Silver 100's before the update, but now I can easily get into 65+ before I hear any distortion.

My Atom and MA Silvers were a big upgrade to the Mu-So prior to update, now I'm left thinking the Mu-So is more enjoyable to listen to for ambient background ... if that makes any sense.

 

 

50+ on my upgraded Atom is pretty loud in to my Spendor A4’s and they’re not particularly sensitive speakers, I don’t think I’m having any volume issues and SQ seems fine too, certainly nothing noteworthy, odd that it’s affecting units differently.

I agree with a lot of what others have been saying in terms of sound, my Atom sounds like someone has increased the treble and bass but also added something between a Concert Hall & Small Club DSP effect you find on surround sound receivers - this gives it an echoey feel. I noticed instantly when I upgraded and instantly when I downgraded, so I am surprised some people actually like it.

I don't have a particularly spectacular setup; Atom, NacA5, Dynaudio Emit10 and Lindy CAT6 UTP , TP-Link fibre boxes, Synology NAS. I wonder what type of system they tested all the firmwares on (I was told that this firmware was selected as the best sounding amongst all the release candidate contenders)

I hope Naim reconsider what sounds best (there may have even been one with big fixes but no sound change) for future updates as otherwise I may be stuck here with no bug fixes (of which there are many) for the foreseeable future.

For those wishing to downgrade:

1. Download the Older Firmware
2. on the iOS app, look under About to discover what the IP address is of your Atom
3. In a web browser type in the same IP address (e.g. 192.168.0.123 or 10.0.1.23 etc)
4. This brings up a web based Naim administration page, click on the Update tab
5. Click on the button to choose your firmware & press OK

You will get a message that the firmware is loading to the Atom, wait
Eventually the page will refresh and you will see the new firmware shown e.g. 2.3.1

Close the browser

Moderated Post: I have removed the link you have posted.  Of the small handful of people who have asked to downgrade, Naim have asked that the link NOT be publicly posted and that anyone who wants to downgrade their fw to contact Naim support first. Obviously most new Uniti users are delighted with the performance of the new firmware, so for anyone with poor performance following the update, I would urge you to contact Naim support to help them find out why your unit is so affected.