Uniti Atom/Nova/Star - New firmware - March/April 2018 Comments

Alley Cat posted:

nbpf posted:

Pev posted:

Another Nova owner happy with 2.6 here. I'm a beta tester and we kissed a lot of frogs! I'm puzzled at the extreme reactions of some people to the DSP in 2.6  - I've tried quite a few and the differences to me are real but relatively subtle. Even the "worst" still sounded more than acceptable.

It is also conceivable that on some devices something unexpected took place during the process of upgrading to 2.6. Perhaps it would be useful if some of those who have reverted to 2.3 (and found back the sound that they were missing under 2.6) would try to upgrade again. This would confirm (to a certain degree) that the differences in sound quality are due to differences in the firmware and not in the upgrading process.

I've done that a few times now.

The difference between the 2 firmwares is night and day for me, and this implies to me that most people either like it so have need to search for a solution or post, haven't done the update yet,  or worryingly (for people who pay a premium for audio equipment) that they simply haven't noticed any difference at all before and after.

It's significant enough for me that I don't think I'd have bought the Nova in the context of other system components if I'd demoed it with 2.6.

yes as new units start to be shipped with 2.6 as standard you'd wonder how many potential Uniti buyers will be put off when they hear a demo

I also have returned to 2.3 on my Nova after some time with 2.6.  I listen to a lot of classical music and found that the 2.6 release added a 'brittleness' or 'thinness' to upper strings and the higher registers of oboes and flutes.  Over the weekend I listened to a number of recordings, including an early 1969 Decca recording of Bach's Brandenburgs with Britten conducting the English Chamber Orch. (prior to the firmware down-level).  I hadn't pulled the LP out in a number of years but remembered it fondly as well played and well recorded.  A few moments after the needle dropped on my LP12 I thought; wow... how could I have loved this... the strings and woodwinds sound screechy and hard.  I immediately put the LP back in the sleeve.   This type of presentation was present not only on LP, but on various CDs and streamed albums.

Yesterday I reverted to 2.3 and last night pulled out the Britten LP out again... and it was back, the way I remembered it.  Much smoother in the upper treble and a bit more robust in the lower frequencies.  The sound was much more balanced, smooth and 'round'... a bit difficult to describe.  I'll do more listening as the week progresses and then do a flip back to 2.6 for comparison.  

I do have one issue with the down-level.  I home-auditioned the Nova for a week in February and purchased the unit the first week in March.  I have quite a strong recollection of being pleased to find the right-left balance control in the audio settings of the app during the audition in February.  However, after reverting to the 2.3 firmware, the only item in the audio settings of the app is the headphone max volume level.... no general max-volume and no balance bar.  Is this normal?  I'd appreciate some input.  I have a non-symmetrical listening space and the balance slider (two digits favoring the right channel) solves the imbalance issue.  I miss it.

Gregg

GOlson posted:

I also have returned to 2.3 on my Nova after some time with 2.6.  I listen to a lot of classical music and found that the 2.6 release added a 'brittleness' or 'thinness' to upper strings and the higher registers of oboes and flutes.  Over the weekend I listened to a number of recordings, including an early 1969 Decca recording of Bach's Brandenburgs with Britten conducting the English Chamber Orch. (prior to the firmware down-level).  I hadn't pulled the LP out in a number of years but remembered it fondly as well played and well recorded.  A few moments after the needle dropped on my LP12 I thought; wow... how could I have loved this... the strings and woodwinds sound screechy and hard.  I immediately put the LP back in the sleeve.   This type of presentation was present not only on LP, but on various CDs and streamed albums.

Yesterday I reverted to 2.3 and last night pulled out the Britten LP out again... and it was back, the way I remembered it.  Much smoother in the upper treble and a bit more robust in the lower frequencies.  The sound was much more balanced, smooth and 'round'... a bit difficult to describe.  I'll do more listening as the week progresses and then do a flip back to 2.6 for comparison.  

I do have one issue with the down-level.  I home-auditioned the Nova for a week in February and purchased the unit the first week in March.  I have quite a strong recollection of being pleased to find the right-left balance control in the audio settings of the app during the audition in February.  However, after reverting to the 2.3 firmware, the only item in the audio settings of the app is the headphone max volume level.... no general max-volume and no balance bar.  Is this normal?  I'd appreciate some input.  I have a non-symmetrical listening space and the balance slider (two digits favoring the right channel) solves the imbalance issue.  I miss it.

Gregg

hmm that's interesting, when you upgraded to 2.6 you had to also update the app, my Atom was the same until i updated the app and the audio settings returned, so does this imply the current latest app is no longer compatible with 2.3? If so that's a bit of an issue! Anyone else who downgraded notice this?

Mercky posted:

Alley Cat posted:

nbpf posted:

Pev posted:

Another Nova owner happy with 2.6 here. I'm a beta tester and we kissed a lot of frogs! I'm puzzled at the extreme reactions of some people to the DSP in 2.6  - I've tried quite a few and the differences to me are real but relatively subtle. Even the "worst" still sounded more than acceptable.

It is also conceivable that on some devices something unexpected took place during the process of upgrading to 2.6. Perhaps it would be useful if some of those who have reverted to 2.3 (and found back the sound that they were missing under 2.6) would try to upgrade again. This would confirm (to a certain degree) that the differences in sound quality are due to differences in the firmware and not in the upgrading process.

I've done that a few times now.

The difference between the 2 firmwares is night and day for me, and this implies to me that most people either like it so have need to search for a solution or post, haven't done the update yet,  or worryingly (for people who pay a premium for audio equipment) that they simply haven't noticed any difference at all before and after.

It's significant enough for me that I don't think I'd have bought the Nova in the context of other system components if I'd demoed it with 2.6.

yes as new units start to be shipped with 2.6 as standard you'd wonder how many potential Uniti buyers will be put off when they hear a demo

I used my speakers at the dealership to A/B the Atom vs Nova so with the firmware at that time the Nova worked for me (in the demo room anyway and fortuitously later at home).  I wonder how I'd feel now if I did the same test, would I have gone for the Atom, Nova or neither based on current sound?

It does make you realise the importance of either a home demo or combining with your other equipment for a demo - speakers are a particular factor given that Naim no longer makes their own - a few years ago you'd have maybe been able to demo Nova via NAC-A5 to a Naim speaker you might be keen on - no longer are you likely to hear it with a Naim speaker, it seems likely that the newer firmware just doesn't work well with some speakers and is ok with others leading to different findings.

So if a new customer demos with at home with their other equipment and likes it, they may buy it, if they don't like it they won't - not too different to before really unless proportion of buyers changes afetr demoing.

I still wonder if there could be a flaw in the firmware or DSP on Nova in particular - if you take the example say of a software equaliser in an audio app in a lower end listening setup eg iTunes, certain parameters will just sound awful when they're over done so you move the sliders back - it's a bit like there's too much emphasis in certain bands, almost causing distortion or negative effects - against that idea you just can't see that it would have got past testing by Naim let alone beta testers.

It's all very strange.  You wonder what the DSP code does - is it simply setting a number of various possible independent parameters on a DSP chip which can either be on/off (or maybe a couple of levels of intensity), or is it actually processing and modifying the data to augment certain characteristics and suppress others to produce a particular sound?  I'd assume it is processing the audio in some manner rather than simply setting parameters on the DSP chip as the firmwae change is so marked.

David N posted:

Pulse Code posted:

My email from Naim support:

The 2.6 firmware update was carefully listened to and selected from a number of different firmwares and was chosen as being a sound quality improvement over the previous firmware. (sic)

Very interesting reply from Naim support. Makes me feel like we need presets to choose the flavor one prefers, like eq presets that usually do not exist in highend audio equipment like naim. ????

I agree David and Quad, which is cheaper than Naim, but also much better value for money, have seen the light in this respect. Naim will get there one day, I predict.

best

David

GOlson posted:

 

......

I do have one issue with the down-level.  I home-auditioned the Nova for a week in February and purchased the unit the first week in March.  I have quite a strong recollection of being pleased to find the right-left balance control in the audio settings of the app during the audition in February.  However, after reverting to the 2.3 firmware, the only item in the audio settings of the app is the headphone max volume level.... no general max-volume and no balance bar.  Is this normal?  I'd appreciate some input.  I have a non-symmetrical listening space and the balance slider (two digits favoring the right channel) solves the imbalance issue.  I miss it.

Gregg

Something must have changed in the way the app controls some features on the Nova in the last update (or more likely the API on the Uniti devices has changed so older methods of altering these parameters no longer work and the app needed updating to do so).

Several noticed that when they updated to 2.3.1 or 2.6 that max volume and balance disappeared from the App - they had not updated the app to the latest version, and when they did the other 2 sliders reappeared.  This implies that some functionality with latest firmware requires control by the concurrent mobile app version - the downside when you revert to 2.3 is that the current app version knows how to control those parameters on the current firmware not the older one anymore.  I keep meaning to change max volume from 85 to 100 when running 2.6 as I can't do so with the current iOS app with firmware 2.3.

David Hendon posted:

David N posted:

Pulse Code posted:

My email from Naim support:

The 2.6 firmware update was carefully listened to and selected from a number of different firmwares and was chosen as being a sound quality improvement over the previous firmware. (sic)

Very interesting reply from Naim support. Makes me feel like we need presets to choose the flavor one prefers, like eq presets that usually do not exist in highend audio equipment like naim. ????

I agree David and Quad, which is cheaper than Naim, but also much better value for money, have seen the light in this respect. Naim will get there one day, I predict.

best

David

I also agree - depending on how big the DSP code is and how much capacity for the flashable firmware, it would be ideal if there was some generic code to implement one of several selectable DSP types - these could even be dynamically downloadable from Naim servers (after all almost all will be internet connected) if having several types selectable caused memory pressures.

Perhaps a cheaper option would be some kind of physical tone/loudness controls on new streamers  

I think there is a mis understanding of what the DSP currently does in the Naim DACs and streamers... it’s not configurable, it’s designed as a specific low pass reconstruction filter for the DAC and matched with the analogue filter... its design is an inherent part of the Naim player and requires  delicate optimisation in terms of execution timing.. having a configurable Naim reconstruction filter DSP is bit like seeing having a configurable DAC chip that be plug swapped out.

I think Naim looked at separate DSP sound optimisations, but felt the negative impact on SQ was not acceptable 

fred47 posted:

My Nova sounds just as you described earlier with 2.6. Dry, liveless, thin,no mojo. fatigue setting in early.Norah jones sounds as she is shouting 

I often use a Linn HD Carol Kidd download to demo equipment and also have this on vinyl - she goes from sounding as though she has a mature voice (as normal) on 2.3 to an old lady 20 years older with a thin voice and little warmth on 2.6.

Shelby Lynne's voice becomes very thin and lacklustre.

Vocals from Tori Amos, Kate Bush, Hannah Reid (London Grammar) go from very enjoyable to shouty/in your face/harsh.  

Gillian Welch's voice goes from enjoyable to bland.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I think there is a mis understanding of what the DSP currently does in the Naim DACs and streamers... it’s not configurable, it’s designed as a specific low pass reconstruction filter for the DAC and matched with the analogue filter... its design is an inherent part of the Naim player and requires  delicate optimisation in terms of execution timing.. having a configurable Naim reconstruction filter DSP is bit like seeing having a configurable DAC chip that be plug swapped out.

I think Naim looked at separate DSP sound optimisations, but felt the negative impact on SQ was not acceptable 

 

Thanks Simon, so are you saying the DSP effect is fixed and cannot be modified at all in software? What I'm trying to understand is exactly what 'DSP' does especilly as firmware 2.3(8574) lists DSP 1.0.2 in About>More, whereas 2.6 has a completely different version which is why I assume that DSP differs between the firmware versions.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I think there is a mis understanding of what the DSP currently does in the Naim DACs and streamers... it’s not configurable, it’s designed as a specific low pass reconstruction filter for the DAC and matched with the analogue filter... its design is an inherent part of the Naim player and requires  delicate optimisation in terms of execution timing.. having a configurable Naim reconstruction filter DSP is bit like seeing having a configurable DAC chip that be plug swapped out.

I think Naim looked at separate DSP sound optimisations, but felt the negative impact on SQ was not acceptable 

 

With respect Simon (and unlike most times I say "with respect" to someone, this time I do actually mean it) I think you are missing the point.

There is no doubt at all that a significant number (most even, if the forum is typical) of Nova and Atom owners find the latest firmware update to be a big downwards step in enjoyability. Not all, but most. Some NDS owners are also not happy, but most are. I think all 272 owners are happy and there haven't been enough of the other streamer owners reporting to know what the overall view is on the old Unitis, NDX and 172.

It is at least arguable that Naim failed to find that point of delicate optimisation to which you refer, at least in the case of the new Unitis. In the case of NDS, perhaps there is no single point that could be found.

The Naim "golden ears" listening to their preferred material, probably quite loud, in Naim's room, using Naim's choice of speakers arrived at a conclusion which a significant number of owners find less engaging than before. We know from beta testing how much difference there can be between versions of firmware that are exactly the same except for the DSP coefficients.

The one thing you can be certain of is that none of their customers, not a single one, will have exactly the same ears, choice of music, room and speakers as the Naim reviewers. It may be that one DSP parameters choice is "correct", but if it sounds wrong to their customers, those customers will gradually leak away.

That's why Naim should offer a choice of DSP profiles and I'm sorry but it is total nonsense that doing so would necessarily damage SQ. if it is designed well, then it can be easily done.

best

David

I love the term ‘with respect’, which really means ‘you’re talking bollocks’. At least, that’s what it means when I use it, which is as rarely as possible. 

Semi-random thought, without going back and checking  I have these impressions from this thread. There are more people posting about the Atom than the Nova, which wouldn’t be that surprising given the cost difference. My impression is that the Atom experience is cosnsistently negative, I don’t remember any Atom owner saying they’re happy. On the Nova I think it splits 2-2 for/against. (As 9ne 9f the fors I would say I’m experiencing a very minor uplift, as opposed to the down-votes which are reporting major impact.) Obviously sample sizes are such that any statistician would be screaming non-significant with froth coming from the mouth, but I’ll ignore that for a moment. 

When I auditioned the Atom and Nova, the Nova offered greater drive, greater depth and control of the bass, and much better female vocal presentation, with a greater sense of space. If I’ve understood correctly, female vocals (and similar registers), pacing, mid-bass are all impacted negatively for those who are (rightly) unhappy. So maybe the greater performance of the Nova in those areas either masks it or even means that it is a slight improvement on the Nova and yet can be a negative impact on the Atom. (This makes sense to me, it may be rubbish.) Then add in speaker/room/listener variation and you could get the samples we’re seeing.

I’d still be happy to tell a friend to seriously consider the Uniti range, but I’d show them how to check the firmware level on the app and tell them to insist the dealer had the latest, as even with this sample size it’s obviously very much a matter of personal taste/system (at least on the Nova).

Hungryhalibut posted:

I love the term ‘with respect’, which really means ‘you’re talking bollocks’. At least, that’s what it means when I use it, which is as rarely as possible. 

It does mean that HH. I do not use it often either, but still sometimes it's just the right way to get attention especially if there is a chance the person you are addressing it to will think that you are talking bollocks (which is probably what Simon, when he reads it, will think!)

best

David

David Hendon posted:

The Naim "golden ears" listening to their preferred material, probably quite loud, in Naim's room, using Naim's choice of speakers arrived at a conclusion which a significant number of owners find less engaging than before. We know from beta testing how much difference there can be between versions of firmware that are exactly the same except for the DSP coefficients.

Well, taste is always a matter of subject. But I agree with you that the DSP coefficients can have a big impact on the sound. Nevertheless the set-up also adds its parts to the whole character of the music.

For me it was also at the beginning a musical downgrade when going to 2.6. I reverted back to 2.3 and I was happy. But then I hooked up a NAP 100 I still had to the Atom and what can I say - firmware 2.6 was in an own league and a big improvement in comparison with 2.3. And I also tested version 2.3 with the NAP 100 - so the difference is not from the NAP 100.

I know that this is not a preferred option as it involves some bucks of money but for me it was a big surprise and also a learning. Needless to say, that I will stay now with this set-up and on version 2.6

JosefM posted:

David Hendon posted:

The Naim "golden ears" listening to their preferred material, probably quite loud, in Naim's room, using Naim's choice of speakers arrived at a conclusion which a significant number of owners find less engaging than before. We know from beta testing how much difference there can be between versions of firmware that are exactly the same except for the DSP coefficients.

Well, taste is always a matter of subject. But I agree with you that the DSP coefficients can have a big impact on the sound. Nevertheless the set-up also adds its parts to the whole character of the music.

For me it was also at the beginning a musical downgrade when going to 2.6. I reverted back to 2.3 and I was happy. But then I hooked up a NAP 100 I still had to the Atom and what can I say - firmware 2.6 was in an own league and a big improvement in comparison with 2.3. And I also tested version 2.3 with the NAP 100 - so the difference is not from the NAP 100.

I know that this is not a preferred option as it involves some bucks of money but for me it was a big surprise and also a learning. Needless to say, that I will stay now with this set-up and on version 2.6

That is interesting Jose and it proves my point. You were able to discover that adding the NAP100 you had spare made 2.6 better for you, but what if you had the Atom and that's all? Would you have preferred to stay with 2.6 rather than 2.3 because you were told it was the more accurate?

Anyway I'm glad you found something that worked well for you.

best

David

David Hendon posted:

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I think there is a mis understanding of what the DSP currently does in the Naim DACs and streamers... it’s not configurable, it’s designed as a specific low pass reconstruction filter for the DAC and matched with the analogue filter... its design is an inherent part of the Naim player and requires  delicate optimisation in terms of execution timing.. having a configurable Naim reconstruction filter DSP is bit like seeing having a configurable DAC chip that be plug swapped out.

I think Naim looked at separate DSP sound optimisations, but felt the negative impact on SQ was not acceptable 

 

With respect Simon (and unlike most times I say "with respect" to someone, this time I do actually mean it) I think you are missing the point.

There is no doubt at all that a significant number (most even, if the forum is typical) of Nova and Atom owners find the latest firmware update to be a big downwards step in enjoyability. Not all, but most. Some NDS owners are also not happy, but most are. I think all 272 owners are happy and there haven't been enough of the other streamer owners reporting to know what the overall view is on the old Unitis, NDX and 172.

It is at least arguable that Naim failed to find that point of delicate optimisation to which you refer, at least in the case of the new Unitis. In the case of NDS, perhaps there is no single point that could be found.

The Naim "golden ears" listening to their preferred material, probably quite loud, in Naim's room, using Naim's choice of speakers arrived at a conclusion which a significant number of owners find less engaging than before. We know from beta testing how much difference there can be between versions of firmware that are exactly the same except for the DSP coefficients.

The one thing you can be certain of is that none of their customers, not a single one, will have exactly the same ears, choice of music, room and speakers as the Naim reviewers. It may be that one DSP parameters choice is "correct", but if it sounds wrong to their customers, those customers will gradually leak away.

That's why Naim should offer a choice of DSP profiles and I'm sorry but it is total nonsense that doing so would necessarily damage SQ. if it is designed well, then it can be easily done.

best

David

It would probably help to keep upgrades that have an impact on the sound quality clearcut separated from upgrades that are meant to improve functionalities.

I am not an owner of any of the recently introduced  Naim products but I understand that Naim are incrementally improving the functionalities of their Uniti devices.These upgrades should not affect the sound quality in any perceivable way.

I would expect upgrades that aim at improving the sound quality to be clearly flagged and to have no impact on functionalities.

Although fairly high end kit, the new Uniti range is presumably designed from a marketing perspective to be a bit more ‘mass market’ then the other marque separates. Surely therefore  it should ideally be tuned for a sound that has a wider appeal rather then a polarising one if the sample of users on this forum is anything to go by. If a company is going to change the signature sound of a product that many have previously auditioned and invested heavily in then they’d really need to nail it with something seriously good that doesn’t divide opinion the way this has. 

JosefM posted:

David Hendon posted:

The Naim "golden ears" listening to their preferred material, probably quite loud, in Naim's room, using Naim's choice of speakers arrived at a conclusion which a significant number of owners find less engaging than before. We know from beta testing how much difference there can be between versions of firmware that are exactly the same except for the DSP coefficients.

Well, taste is always a matter of subject. But I agree with you that the DSP coefficients can have a big impact on the sound. Nevertheless the set-up also adds its parts to the whole character of the music.

For me it was also at the beginning a musical downgrade when going to 2.6. I reverted back to 2.3 and I was happy. But then I hooked up a NAP 100 I still had to the Atom and what can I say - firmware 2.6 was in an own league and a big improvement in comparison with 2.3. And I also tested version 2.3 with the NAP 100 - so the difference is not from the NAP 100.

I know that this is not a preferred option as it involves some bucks of money but for me it was a big surprise and also a learning. Needless to say, that I will stay now with this set-up and on version 2.6

Just to confuse matters further I run my Nova most of the time with a NAP 250 attached - I've listened with and without but still prefer 2.3.

The internal Nova amp gives more detail than using the older NAP 250 (whatever firmware), but the NAP 250 just gives a lot of musicality with some music which makes me prefer listening with it most of the time.

I'd originally planned to get Atom/Nova as an all-in-one for streaming in the family room rather than the Lounge where I normally have my AV equipment, but as I've had the main active system in storage for a little while until I sort out the Lounge I repurposed one of the 250s used for that in the interim.

Perhaps I should have gone for a NAC-N 272 instead and used the 250 with it.

It is also not clear (to me) that all

Eoink posted:

Semi-random thought, without going back and checking  I have these impressions from this thread. There are more people posting about the Atom than the Nova, which wouldn’t be that surprising given the cost difference. My impression is that the Atom experience is cosnsistently negative, I don’t remember any Atom owner saying they’re happy. On the Nova I think it splits 2-2 for/against. (As 9ne 9f the fors I would say I’m experiencing a very minor uplift, as opposed to the down-votes which are reporting major impact.) Obviously sample sizes are such that any statistician would be screaming non-significant with froth coming from the mouth, but I’ll ignore that for a moment. 

...

It is also not obvious to me that all Nova and Atom owners have identical devices. Manufacturers sometime introduce hardware upgrades without notifying it. If there were different Nova around, it would not be very surprising that a firmware upgrade has had a negative impact on some of them and no or negligible impacts on the others. Machines are not very different from humans: they are not all the same!

David Hendon posted:

 

That is interesting Jose and it proves my point. You were able to discover that adding the NAP100 you had spare made 2.6 better for you, but what if you had the Atom and that's all? Would you have preferred to stay with 2.6 rather than 2.3 because you were told it was the more accurate?

Anyway I'm glad you found something that worked well for you.

best

David

I wonder if that point is similar in a way to the one I made (probably too wordily) above. The extra weight and control of the NAP100 or the Nova makes the DSP change work, where through a bare Atom it becomes a problem, at least in certain systems  or on certain music types. 

I think there are more Nova owners not liking here than Atom owners. But anyway something not wholly desirable is going on and it need understanding!

best

David

Alley Cat posted:

Thanks Simon, so are you saying the DSP effect is fixed and cannot be modified at all in software? What I'm trying to understand is exactly what 'DSP' does especilly as firmware 2.3(8574) lists DSP 1.0.2 in About>More, whereas 2.6 has a completely different version which is why I assume that DSP differs between the firmware versions.

Yes the  IIR based low pass reconstruction filter is set up by programming the SHARC based DSP processor...and it is a specific design to match the DAC reconstruction filter response... and is carefully designed to offer the required reconstruction performance (ie slope, phase shift, Q and cut off etc) to suit the overall  DAC and filter response architecture. It’s design I don’t believe has ever changed.

However what has  changed is the code execution timing, that is the exact timing that the particular SHARC operands that are executed, which controls the tiny side effects from the DSP module code execution... it is these ‘interference’ side effects that can be tuned so as change the overall modification  of the resultant audio  caused by the perturbations from the DSP and memory data flow. I understand that the Naim designers can almost tune these interference side effects to tweak the audio eq response, but it’s not always a precisely exact process and can be a bit hit and miss... think of it like being able to tune the sonic differences between FLAC and WAV decode. The overall result is ultimately set by Naim to match the agreed Naim sound as clearly just like Naim amp, and preamp performances the audio performance response is subjectively set by Naim... we don’t have different sounding flavours of NAC 552 for example

Now what this means however is that these effects are very exactly specific to each component’s physical architecture and implementation, which is why there are different DSP build optimisations for each Naim product and why sometimes new DSP timing optimisation builds  are required when there are other changes in the firmware.

i hope that makes some sense.

Simon

Perhaps someone (user or beta tester) who has the ear of Naim should extend an invitation to them to comment on what's happened with the Firmware update.

The response I received in the email for a link to the 2.3 firmware was non enquiring and lacking any curiosity. Perhaps they are unaware / disinterested in our experience, but I would have thought by now that a few down grade requests should have set some flags flying in the development department.

I’m off to Naim tomorrow and will ask them the question.