Allo DigiOne Signature

Bob the Builder posted:

I have just purchased a used Raspberry Pi 2/HifiBerry Digi + to have a play with next week it has the choice of Spdif and optical which my 2Qute has so once I get it up and running I may well have to ask some advice.

Really looking forward to your experience. 

Well I have the Pi set up using Bubble unpn and minimserver and Volumio and I'm controlling music playback via Lumin app (Tidal) and Volumio app for everything else. I like the Volumio app better than Lumin but Lumin of course has Tidal integration but I'll mess around with different apps until I find one that suits me and of course any advice would be great.

It is sounding really nice but I'm only using a cheap optical cable at the moment because that's what I had lying around  so I will source a decent spdif coax asap. I noticed last night that I could power the Pi with my phone power bank does this make a difference in sound quality or am I better off with a Linear psu?  Tweaking and optimising sound quality is my first mission and again any help would be great.                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                        

I only got things set up late last night and have not tried using the Pi without having my MacBook open close by because that was my main issue before I would have to have the MacBook powered up and open. I'd really like to just be able to play music whilst my laptop is in another room and powered down.  

I'm using an old WD My Passport I had lying around connected to the Pi that has all my CD rips and music files and so my last question is will the type of USB hard drive I use affect Sound Quality.

I have to say though that againI'm  amazed at what a sub £100 streaming renderer can achieve  with the Digi+ it cost me £30 used and  connected to the 2Qute it sounds as good as the ND5XS, the SOtM 100 and the Liv Zen.                                

Hi, delighted to hear you're up and running and liking the sound. :-)

The hifiBerry is great, isn't it?

And it's (IMHO, in my system) even better with the Allo products, if you could believe it? 

IME SSD's can often sound better than traditional hard drives, but much more so if they're directly connected to the computer that's doing the streaming, rather than via ethernet through a router.

If you're not going the router route at present, powering the hard drive with a separate power adapter (a good one helps even more) or a battery can improve things, as can the use of Jitterbugs, iFi Jitterbug equivalents, etc.

Though from memory (and I could be mis-remembering ...) to get the best out of the batter-powered hard drive set-up, I seem to remember I used a USB or Firewire cable that only passed data, not power, that I got off eBay?

I think It'd be worth experimenting with your phone power bank. All but one of mine were terrible, but one was really good ... so if you have one already it seems it'd be worth a try?

My experience with the PI is that it responds extremely well to better power supply arrangements, in both HiFiberry and Allo hat incarnations.

Enjoy fiddling! :-)

I have been playing music through the Pi with my laptop upstairs and powered down so problem one sorted. Why I’m able to do that now and I wasn’t before is a mystery but who cares it’s working. 

Next is to find an app that does Tidal and everything else but isn’t as long winded as LUMIN. I know this is probably going to led me Roon but if I can I’d like to avoid the cost. 

For me this is very much a second source and so almost £50 per month for Roon & Tidal is a bit much. 

Yes Ill mess about with power supplies battery and linear. 

Thanks again for help and support 

Happy Raspberry Pi user!!

Bob the Builder posted:

 

Next is to find an app that does Tidal and everything else but isn’t as long winded as LUMIN. I know this is probably going to led me Roon but if I can I’d like to avoid the cost. 

 

If you have an iPad, try iPeng (with piCorePlayer as OS on your PI) -- it's a decent app you might enjoy, and iPeng supports Tidal. 

Ricardo22 posted:

Timo posted:

That’s a very interesting finding indeed — how would you describe the difference betweeen DigiOne Signature and NDS as transport?

Thanks!

 

Hello Timo.

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly?

OK, so the network cable has changed from the NDS to the DigiOne Signature. The SPDIF RCA of the Signature goes into the digital SPDIF RCA input of the NDS. The NDS is no longer a network streamer in the network, but only delivers as DAC the analog data in the NAC252.

The difference in playback quality was tremendous. Since both used the same network and even the same network cable, the differences must be elsewhere.

The sound became more open, more transparent with more pressure and accuracy in the bass range. The stage opened wider than I thought possible.

Now I want to find out if the NDS / 555PS is an incredibly good DAC and just outdated its streaming board. For this I will soon borrow the Chord Qutest from my dealer and the Mytek Brooklyn from my other dealer.

Ricardo22,

what is the OS for your RPi/Digione Sig ?

Volumio?

Thanks

Matt

Hi Matt.

I use DietPi and Roon as Server.

Bob the Builder posted:

I have been playing music through the Pi with my laptop upstairs and powered down so problem one sorted. Why I’m able to do that now and I wasn’t before is a mystery but who cares it’s working.

Perhaps it would be worth trying to understand. To me, it us not clear what was not working before and what works now. Is MinimServer running on the Pi or on another computer? Are you using the Pi as a UPnP renderer (with electrical and optical S/PDIF outputs) or as a combined UPnP server + renderer? 

Bob the Builder posted:

Next is to find an app that does Tidal and everything else but isn’t as long winded as LUMIN. I know this is probably going to led me Roon but if I can I’d like to avoid the cost.

I am using Linn Kazoo on iOS and Android and Bubble UPnP (not Bubble UPnP server!) on Android. The nice thing of BubbleUPnP is that it has a local renderer. Thus, if you use the RPi among others as a UPnP server, you can easily check if it works correctly by replaying on the Android mobile device. Both Kazoo and Bubble UPnP support Tidal, Qobuz, etc. and look better than the Lumin app, in my view. I have not used the Lumin app recently, however.

Guys,

has anyone tried Audirvana for streaming to RPi/Digione Sig ?

Thanks

Matt

MatthiasW posted:

Guys,

has anyone tried Audirvana for streaming to RPi/Digione Sig ?

Thanks

Matt

Does Audirvana come with a UPnP server? I do not think that Audirvana has been ported to the RPi platform. Thus, the only way of using it in conjunction with a RPi/Digione Sig would be as a UPnP server running on a networked computer. Am I missing something?

nbpf posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

I have been playing music through the Pi with my laptop upstairs and powered down so problem one sorted. Why I’m able to do that now and I wasn’t before is a mystery but who cares it’s working.

Perhaps it would be worth trying to understand. To me, it us not clear what was not working before and what works now. Is MinimServer running on the Pi or on another computer? Are you using the Pi as a UPnP renderer (with electrical and optical S/PDIF outputs) or as a combined UPnP server + renderer? 

As I stated in the original post I have no idea. I already had Bubble and Minimserver installed so I opened them up and on the Bubble upnp server page and selected minimserver as the renderer. Minimserver is running on my laptop.

Bob the Builder posted:

Next is to find an app that does Tidal and everything else but isn’t as long winded as LUMIN. I know this is probably going to led me Roon but if I can I’d like to avoid the cost.

I am using Linn Kazoo on iOS and Android and Bubble UPnP (not Bubble UPnP server!) on Android. The nice thing of BubbleUPnP is that it has a local renderer. Thus, if you use the RPi among others as a UPnP server, you can easily check if it works correctly by replaying on the Android mobile device. Both Kazoo and Bubble UPnP support Tidal, Qobuz, etc. and look better than the Lumin app, in my view. I have not used the Lumin app recently, however.

Thanks I'll give Kazoo a try.

MatthiasW posted:

Ricardo22 posted:

Timo posted:

That’s a very interesting finding indeed — how would you describe the difference betweeen DigiOne Signature and NDS as transport?

Thanks!

 

Hello Timo.

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly?

OK, so the network cable has changed from the NDS to the DigiOne Signature. The SPDIF RCA of the Signature goes into the digital SPDIF RCA input of the NDS. The NDS is no longer a network streamer in the network, but only delivers as DAC the analog data in the NAC252.

The difference in playback quality was tremendous. Since both used the same network and even the same network cable, the differences must be elsewhere.

The sound became more open, more transparent with more pressure and accuracy in the bass range. The stage opened wider than I thought possible.

Now I want to find out if the NDS / 555PS is an incredibly good DAC and just outdated its streaming board. For this I will soon borrow the Chord Qutest from my dealer and the Mytek Brooklyn from my other dealer.

 

So a £200 mini computer with a spdif out ad on has improved the sound of £10,000+ streamer and psu to the point where your only using it as a dac?                                  

Bob the Builder posted:

So a £200 mini computer with a spdif out ad on has improved the sound of £10,000+ streamer and psu to the point where your only using it as a dac?                                  

Isn't it amazing. I really didn't expect that result. Saturday or Monday, i will get a mytek brooklyn dac +. I will then test it against NDS/555PS DR. 

20.000 Euro against 2.000 Euro.

nbpf posted:

MatthiasW posted:

Guys,

has anyone tried Audirvana for streaming to RPi/Digione Sig ?

Thanks

Matt

Does Audirvana come with a UPnP server? 

Yes, it does:

https://audirvana.com/network-playback/

You can stream - if you want via wifi - from a MBP for example to the new RPI/Digione Sig.

Matt

Bob the Builder posted:

MatthiasW posted:

Ricardo22 posted:

Timo posted:

That’s a very interesting finding indeed — how would you describe the difference betweeen DigiOne Signature and NDS as transport?

Thanks!

 

Hello Timo.

I'm not sure if I understood you correctly?

OK, so the network cable has changed from the NDS to the DigiOne Signature. The SPDIF RCA of the Signature goes into the digital SPDIF RCA input of the NDS. The NDS is no longer a network streamer in the network, but only delivers as DAC the analog data in the NAC252.

The difference in playback quality was tremendous. Since both used the same network and even the same network cable, the differences must be elsewhere.

The sound became more open, more transparent with more pressure and accuracy in the bass range. The stage opened wider than I thought possible.

Now I want to find out if the NDS / 555PS is an incredibly good DAC and just outdated its streaming board. For this I will soon borrow the Chord Qutest from my dealer and the Mytek Brooklyn from my other dealer.

 

So a £200 mini computer with a spdif out ad on has improved the sound of £10,000+ streamer and psu to the point where your only using it as a dac?                                  

I would not be so surprised. The majority of NDS owners have so far mainly used the device's Ethernet interface. That does not mean that the NDS's S/PDIF interface is any bad! In conjunction with a very low noise S/PDIF source, it could yield excellent results. Finally the NDS is a very good DAC. If Ricardo22's results are confirmed and substantiated, it would be interesting to compare DigiOne Signature + NDS to ND555 alone,  DigiOne Signature + ND555 and ... perhaps DigiOne Signature + DAC 2?

Just wondering if we have any further news on the DAC comparisons?

I’ve been waiting with baited breath ...

And a bit more on experimenting with power supplies for the fab Signature.

I am currently getting excellent results (IME, in my system, and with my electricity supply a significant improvement on batteries, which themselves are already excellent) with a 12v iFi iPower regulated to 5v.

Experience now suggests a couple of 9v supercapacitors in series work extremely well on the input to the regulator (better, it seems, than Oscons, either singular or in various parallel combinations), where the PRaT elements and non-modulation across instruments and voices really do surprise. I can’t quite believe how much bass drive, snap and texture I’m getting from a single 4” driver; it’s like active Kans have been reborn for the 21st century (showing my age, I know...) ????

My other half easily identifies the differences in sound between regulators and capacitor types and sizes, and even board layouts (more easily than me, truth be told - Doh!). Not something I imagine she admits to her friends ...

Interestingly, though, a good old LT7805 is so far the best-sounding regulator I’ve tried in this context, easily besting an LT3405; somewhat against my expectations and the relative pricing of the products. Still have a number to try out ... 

Just goes to to show the old adage that whilst measurements are important to learn from, it’s what it sounds like that ultimately matters. ????

If you want to get even more from your Signature than you may be getting now (hard to imagine, I know ????), I can very much recommend this route and IME it’s well worth a bit of experimentation.

Ricardo22 posted:

Bob the Builder posted:

So a £200 mini computer with a spdif out ad on has improved the sound of £10,000+ streamer and psu to the point where your only using it as a dac?                                  

Isn't it amazing. I really didn't expect that result. Saturday or Monday, i will get a mytek brooklyn dac +. I will then test it against NDS/555PS DR. 

20.000 Euro against 2.000 Euro.

And ... what are your findings? Thanks, nbpf

Hi All,

My first post in a long time.  I found this thread and following with a lot of interest and blown away by the findings,  as I was researching for the quality of the Digione Signature.  I am looking at building a touch screen with RPI 3b V1.2 and PiCorePlayer. I have the basics working tested out to USB and to a basic NAD D30102 Hybrid Amp and as you can see in the video, I just need to figure out how to add the Signature Dac and feed it to my Naim Dac and I have a NDX2 or ND5 equivalent.

Once I have it working I will report back my findings. 

Timo posted:

nbpf posted:

Timo posted:

That’s a very interesting finding indeed — how would you describe the difference betweeen DigiOne Signature and NDS as transport?

I understand that RICARDO22 has used the NDS as a DAC, not as a transport. Thus he effectively has compared the DigiOne Signature to the streaming board of the NDS.

But I agree that, if confirmed, his findings would be very interesting: In https://forums.naimaudio.com/t...allo-digione-player, MM argued that the original DigiOne into NDS was not as good as the NDS alone. At the same time, he also found that the DigiOne into 272/250DR sounded better than the 272/250DR alone. If the DigiOne Signature into the NDS turns out to better the NDS alone, it suggests that the Signature is a significant improvement over the original DigiOne.

NBPF, now it’s your turn — get a Signature and do some tests with your NDac...  

...

I should be able to compare my

 * DigiOne powered with a grounded ifi 5V/2.5A

to a

 * DigiOne Signature powered by a grounded ifi 5V/2.5A  (dirty side) and by a LPS-1.2 (clean side)

by the end of next week. I am going to run identical images (up to the host name) of my minimal Raspbian distribution on the two Rpi B+ that host the devices and connect them to the nDAC with two DC1 BNC-BNC cables of the same length.

Very much look forward to hearing how you find the comparison! ????????

In my system and for my preferences, there wasn’t really much of a comparison, excellent though the Digione is.

But it’ll be great to hear your experiences and conclusions in your system! ????

RX8R3Rod posted:

Very much look forward to hearing how you find the comparison! ????????

...

I have been running the new DigiOne Signature side-by-side with the DigiOne into the Naim DAC since Monday evening.

The two devices are connected to inputs 7 and 8 of the Naim DAC through two Naim DC-1 cables of the same length. The DAC is connected to a Supernait 2 via a Super Lumina DIN-DIN connector. I have been listening to the devices through Ovator S-400 speakers and Sennheiser HD-800 headphones. These are connected to the headphones output of the SN2 which is less than optimal for the HD800.

The dirty side of the DigiOne Signature and the DigiOne are powered by a grounded ifi 5V/2.5A PSU. The clean side of the DigiOne Signature is powered by a LPS-1.2.

The DigiOne and the DigiOne Signature were hosted by two Raspberry Pi 3B+ running the same minimal Raspbian distribution, the only difference being the host name and, of course, the IP address.

During the first listenings through the S-400 I could not distinguish the DigiOne Signature from the DigiOne. This was perhaps because of the tone quality of the two devices which is very similar. Perhaps the DigiOne Signature needed some run in time or perhaps my system is not very revealing or I am a poor listener.

After listening more carefully to the two devices yesterday and today (first through the HD800 and then through the S-400 again), I am now convinced that the DigiOne Signature is definitely better than the DigiOne. The presentation is more engaging. Fast transients are better controlled. Both basses and high pitch notes are more distinct and clear. These impressions were consistent across three very different tracks.

That said, the DigiOne Signature is about 2.5 times more expensive that the DigiOne and the LPS-1.2 costs about 1.5 times the DigiOne Signature. Thus, the DigiOne Signature + LPS-1.2 is about six times more expensive than the DigiOne.

On the other hand, the DigiOne Signature + LPS-1.2 is a very fine and flexible solution to the problem of feeding a S/PDIF DAC with a high quality signal.

With MinimServer and upmpdcli running on the RPi that hosts the DigiOne Signature, one has a self contained server + network player with excellent support for classical music, internet radio and gapless replay of Qobuz, Tidal, etc.

The clean side of the DigiOne Signature can also be powered by batteries. This very much decreases the price of the system but, of course, requires replacing and recharging the batteries. Four 2400mAh 18650 batteries should be able to provide clean power to the clean side of the DigiOne Signature for more than 50 hours.

That’s IMHO really interesting feedback; really appreciate it, thanks! ????

It also nicely demonstrates the potential dangers of quick-fire assessments (which you v astutely sidestepped ????????).

I suspect one other variable that may also possibly come into play in a scenario like your initial experience of the Signature, is that of variable mains supply quality. It’s probably relevant for us all from one day to the next, but perhaps particularly relevant when comparing listener A’s experience (‘wonderful’ (or whatever) with listener B’s experience (‘barely average’ (or whatever))?

But I must stop waffling and back to the topic at hand; would you consider it overall a worthwhile purchase?

Bart posted:

Allo doesn't seem to make a version with optical output -- am I right about that?

Yes, neither the DigiOne nor the DigiOne Signature have optical outputs.

nbpf posted:

RX8R3Rod posted:

Very much look forward to hearing how you find the comparison! ????????

...

I have been running the new DigiOne Signature side-by-side with the DigiOne into the Naim DAC since Monday evening.

The two devices are connected to inputs 7 and 8 of the Naim DAC through two Naim DC-1 cables of the same length. The DAC is connected to a Supernait 2 via a Super Lumina DIN-DIN connector. I have been listening to the devices through Ovator S-400 speakers and Sennheiser HD-800 headphones. These are connected to the headphones output of the SN2 which is less than optimal for the HD800.

The dirty side of the DigiOne Signature and the DigiOne are powered by a grounded ifi 5V/2.5A PSU. The clean side of the DigiOne Signature is powered by a LPS-1.2.

The DigiOne and the DigiOne Signature were hosted by two Raspberry Pi 3B+ running the same minimal Raspbian distribution, the only difference being the host name and, of course, the IP address.

During the first listenings through the S-400 I could not distinguish the DigiOne Signature from the DigiOne. This was perhaps because of the tone quality of the two devices which is very similar. Perhaps the DigiOne Signature needed some run in time or perhaps my system is not very revealing or I am a poor listener.

After listening more carefully to the two devices yesterday and today (first through the HD800 and then through the S-400 again), I am now convinced that the DigiOne Signature is definitely better than the DigiOne. The presentation is more engaging. Fast transients are better controlled. Both basses and high pitch notes are more distinct and clear. These impressions were consistent across three very different tracks.

That said, the DigiOne Signature is about 2.5 times more expensive that the DigiOne and the LPS-1.2 costs about 1.5 times the DigiOne Signature. Thus, the DigiOne Signature + LPS-1.2 is about six times more expensive than the DigiOne.

On the other hand, the DigiOne Signature + LPS-1.2 is a very fine and flexible solution to the problem of feeding a S/PDIF DAC with a high quality signal.

With MinimServer and upmpdcli running on the RPi that hosts the DigiOne Signature, one has a self contained server + network player with excellent support for classical music, internet radio and gapless replay of Qobuz, Tidal, etc.

The clean side of the DigiOne Signature can also be powered by batteries. This very much decreases the price of the system but, of course, requires replacing and recharging the batteries. Four 2400mAh 18650 batteries should be able to provide clean power to the clean side of the DigiOne Signature for more than 50 hours.

Thanks nbpf for sharing your experience with us! 

I wondered -- did you try the regular Digione with the LPS-1.2? If so, did this decrease the performance gap between regular and Signature Digione? 

T

nbpf posted:

Bart posted:

Allo doesn't seem to make a version with optical output -- am I right about that?

Yes, neither the DigiOne nor the DigiOne Signature have optical outputs.

I read somewhere that Allo believes that adding an optical output to the board is detrimental to SQ performance.