NDX2

OuYang posted:

I am curious that are digital output quality of new ND streamers similar or not? They look like using same transport PCBs, maybe power supply is different.

But I think ND series is designed to be all in one network player. BNC only digital output is just not enough for their price as pure transport.

It should be similar - it's the same NP800 streamer module in all 3 but as you go up the range better power supplies (and in the case of the ND555) the Faraday cage around the streamer module and external PS improve the performance. It's a step up on the older streaming module but i'd question the value of using the NDX2 purely as a network bridge. As mentioned above it's really designed as a network player so unless you like to see the glow of a green naim logo then there are other alternatives to consider. Perhaps when  (if ?) Naim introduce a new Naim DAC then maybe they'd introduce a NP800 based network bridge dedicated to the sole task of providing a reference quality S/PDIF output...

as a transport only, i would def. choose an Innuos zen/zenith plugged via USB to DAC!

I am now listening to the NDX2 as a transport... it is absolutely fantastic... operating in native transport mode. and this disables the DAC sections so assumingky not to compromise the transport performance.

Now using Roon on the NDX2 with the subtle EQ to iron out to some extent the frequency fall off on my 19s.. I appear to have a superb and highly configurable transport... with full Naim quality, interoperability/automation.. I think I am becoming sold on it.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I am now listening to the NDX2 as a transport... it is absolutely fantastic... operating in native transport mode. and this disables the DAC sections so assumingky not to compromise the transport performance.

Now using Roon on the NDX2 with the subtle EQ to iron out to some extent the frequency fall off on my 19s.. I appear to have a superb and highly configurable transport... with full Naim quality, interoperability/automation.. I think I am becoming sold on it.

Subtle EQ -gone over to the dark side have we? ????????

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Of course eq and DSP filtering  might be the only way to achieve a satisfactory outcome for some setups, but bear in mind you have moved away from being bit perfect, and are introducing digital artefacts and digital noise and so you have deliberately distorted the digital / analogue reconstruction......  although this is only going to be noticeable on very revealing DACs like the Hugo and ND555 connected to high end amplification.

  Luckily your set up is not revealing enough to hear those nasty digital artefacts ????????????

.sjb

I hoped you would pick up on that 

I can choose which defects I prefer... and you are right the Roon EQ is rather good... and to be honest  it was your postings that prompted me to explore it... always have an open mind... so thanks for the heads up .. and the Hugo responds well so far (in fact exceedingly well) and even my Qb can take advanatage... and of course if I were to listen to some content where it were not suited for whatever reason.. it is so simple to disable..   so thanks.... I think ???? 

james n posted:

Perhaps when  (if ?) Naim introduce a new Naim DAC then maybe they'd introduce a NP800 based network bridge dedicated to the sole task of providing a reference quality S/PDIF output...

Another point is the interconnect between NP800 and DAC in new ND player, it is LVDS if I am not misunderstanding. And some new ND player users does not feel better to use external DAC like ndac through BNC S/PDIF. If Naim really(?) introduce Network Bridge (Streamer Transport) based on new NP800, maybe we will see something new on digital output.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

I am now listening to the NDX2 as a transport... it is absolutely fantastic... operating in native transport mode. and this disables the DAC sections so assumingky not to compromise the transport performance.

Now using Roon on the NDX2 with the subtle EQ to iron out to some extent the frequency fall off on my 19s.. I appear to have a superb and highly configurable transport... with full Naim quality, interoperability/automation.. I think I am becoming sold on it.

Given that the DAC and analogue output stage are not merely an afterthought and constitute the bulk of the unit, have you not considered that using an NDX2 like this from the outset might be a waste? There are similarly priced streaming transports on the market that are 100% dedicated to just that.

No not at all - the evaluations I am doing at present - demonstrate when the NDX2 when configured in 'transparent' transport mode  becomes the  best transport I have so far heard. Significantly improved on my previous NDX and borrowed NDS which in themselves were some of the best transports I had heard. In fact I would go to the extent - but perhaps Naim wouldn't agree with me here - that you are doing the NDX2 a dis service limiting its use to its internal DAC only.

I also had the honour of talking some of the Naim design engineers taking me through how they transformed the transport in the new streamers compared to the earlier models - and how interference from displays, network components  and internal power supplies was hugely mitigated, as well as the stability of the transport clock and surrounding circuitry and sample data management, buffering and control.

The subtle detail and textures that are exposed now are absorbing. I was listening to a Robert Harbron recording yesterday of him playing a concertina solo.. on some systems this can sound rather drab and dry, its a hard instrument to accurately reproduce convincingly  - the NDX2 in transport mode allowed this to play with the subtlety and finesse as if Harbron was playing in my room... authentically .. .and I have enjoyed a fair few non amplified concertina gigs. 

Now for whatever reason - the magic was somewhat lost using the NDX2 internal DAC, it sounded like a very very good recording again. 

The detail and naturalness of the NDX2 transport into a revolving state of the art DAC really is mind blowing - it is to me - and although I appreciate we all don't hear things the same - it really shows up, to me why I have moved beyond  the highly regarded PCM1704K, 

So almost certainly I will be purchasing a new NDX2 streamer - it has shown how it can transform my listening experience-  and I am learning to rediscover some of my music again over my previous NDX (in transport mode)

Congratulations Nam - the NDX2 really is a first class transport - and its DAC implementation is highly respectable to, and I can see that many may  well fall in love with that part of the NDX2 alone - but it is when in transport configuration it becomes stellar.  I suspect you are shortly going to have another very happy new NDX2 customer 

I'm sure it's very fine but no way would I be forking out for a streamer when all I really wanted was a transport without first demoing something like an Esoteric N-03T (possibly with one their outboard master clock generators).

The NDX2 might still come out ahead. But without comparing to dedicated options, it's just buying Naim for the sake of keeping the logos in the rack aligned.

Possibly - but Naim and my dealer look after me - and make my upgrade relatively painless.. I  like the Naim control ecosystem and I like the fact I can occasionally talk to  some of the design and product  team, i know where and how it is made  and on occasions am invited to visit the company along with some other of their customers. That to me, perhaps as I am an engineer,  is also very important. 

Simon, do you still get screen artwork in transport mode or is it disabled when using the bnc output?

Yes get all the screen artwork - everything is exactly the same other than the output is steered to SPDIF as opposed to the internal DAC/oversampling filter. The only thing I do note is that you can't send to SPDIF and the DAC/oversampler concurrently - I assume there is some internal reconfiguration on whether its in transport or DAC mode as you define in the new setup page on the Naim app

O K thanks useful to know.

Simon, I’m using the NDX2 with PSU added but with DIN output enabled so not bypassing the internal DAC. I’m using SL interconnect into pre and pleased with the results. Would you suggest better SQ is with the Chord Hugo mk1 via SPDIF (and presumably disconnecting PSU). I tried SPDIF with nDAC but was not convinced.

Hi Bongoman, if you are happy with what you have I wouldn’t change anything...

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Possibly - but Naim and my dealer look after me - and make my upgrade relatively painless.. I  like the Naim control ecosystem and I like the fact I can occasionally talk to  some of the design and product  team, i know where and how it is made  and on occasions am invited to visit the company along with some other of their customers. That to me, perhaps as I am an engineer,  is also very important. 

 

One cannot overestimate the value of this sort of contact and support.

Having said that I would be interested in your opinion of other transports as in modern parlance you're "an influencer" and your opinions carry some weight here. You're one of the few (on here) who doesn't always favour the newest flavour and also are willing to re-assess.

What cable do you use between NDX2 and Hugo?

.sjb

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

Yes get all the screen artwork - everything is exactly the same other than the output is steered to SPDIF as opposed to the internal DAC/oversampling filter. The only thing I do note is that you can't send to SPDIF and the DAC/oversampler concurrently - I assume there is some internal reconfiguration on whether its in transport or DAC mode as you define in the new setup page on the Naim app

Hey Simon, some reviews and members related that the nds is still a bit better vs the ndx2, as all in one transport /dac( streamer).

But as transport only, do you think, and heard yourself, that the ndx2 transport is better than the nds transport ?   

I have no way of comparing a side by side comparison with the NDS now, but I would not be surprised if the NDX2 was ahead here by a margin due to the extent of how much re engineering and improvement has gone into the transport area (whether for internal DAC output or BNC output) compared to the older streamers.

Simon

When you say you are using the NDX2 as a transport only,do you mean you are using its digital out,and you have UPNP disabled in the settings,or is there some other configuration that you have to set?I am using an NDS,and I am thinking of getting a Chord m-scaler/Hugo TT2 to drive my Sopra 1’s directly off the TT2.This is the main reason I traded my 272/250 DR for the NDS,and I also use it to feed my Dyn XD 600’s.

Simon, appreciate you feedback. It is most welcome.

When you say the NDX2 is a fine transport , how are you feeding the music to it, to then push out via your Chord Hugo ? As another member or 2 also think this is also the way to go. From memory Core or n-Serve / NDX2 / n-DAC / 555 PS was preferred over Core or n-Serve / NDX2 / 555PS.

Hi NQ, Crackie, as transport I am referring to the streamer setup to BNC output, which disables the analogue outputs.  All services such UPnP, Tidal, Roon, DSD via DoP, Airplay, Spotify, SPDIF inputs, Web radio, Bluetooth, Googlecast, Screen album art display, automation etc all function. 

I currently feed this SPDIF into a Hugo Mk1 that I connect via Hiline back into to my 552 NAC.

i think if I am honest if asked for server platform to drive I would seriously consider Roon Core... I am using this to send the media to my streamer.. and it does this efficiently and takes care of transcoding, transcoding Tidal, as well as any EQ or normalisation you may require for different systems ...  The  Roon Core acts as an internet streaming proxy and is hugely more integrated and seamless compared to BubbleServer which I was using before.

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

  The  Roon Core acts as an internet streaming proxy and is hugely more integrated and seamless compared to BubbleServer which I was using before.

Good enough to revert from Qobuz to Tidal?

Simon-in-Suffolk posted:

...... as transport I am referring to the streamer setup to BNC output, which disables the analogue outputs. .......

I currently feed this SPDIF into a Hugo Mk1.......

Hi Simon

I guess that means that using the Hugo Mk1 sounds much better than using the NDX2 on its own (internal DAC) ... as was always the case with NDX 

I only ask, because I'm using Hugo MK1 with my ND5xs and if I am to upgrade to NDX2, I thought that the Hugo would no longer be required - I naturally assumed that the newer NDX2 would have a better internal DAC (compared to the 'ageing' Hugo MK1)  .... bit of a shame if the latest Naim internal DAC doesn't beat the Hugo  ..... which apparently still reigns supreme.

Guess the Chord DAC's  are still very much the top of their game 

Simon

Maybe the NDX2 is different than the NDS,but on my NDS under setup,by hitting the little wrench on the remote,there are 2 seperate output settings.One for Analogue,and one for digital...mine can both be enabled at the same time.I can actually play my XD’s (digital out) and Sopra’s (Analogue) at the same time.The Sopra’s are connected to a non Naim pre/amp.The point is,enabling digital out,does not disable Analogue automatically,I have to disable it in the menu.Or does the NDX2 have an independent BNC setting?

The NDX2 is different to NDS in that digital out is an independent setting on the output menu that disables DIN and RCA.

I have only used my NDX2 with nDAC in this setting (still prefer internal NDX2 dac) but am curious to hear Chord Hugo