Speaker upgrade Raidho X1 or Dynaudio C20

Different speakers for sure. X1 doesn’t have much bass output and needs to spread wide from each other. C20 are much larger with lots of bass output. If you’re into rock I don’t think you’ll be happy with X1. If it’s acoustic music you like then you’ll love them. Both great speakers but your music will determine what’s best for you. 

Fairly large room why only considering “bookshelf “ I have your exact electronics and very slightly larger room and found I needed floor standers/ full range for better sound quality without subs

Thank you for your answers. I mostly listen rock music like 60%, jazz and acoustic music %40. Only reason I have doubts about c20, in most reviews they say it is good only in high level volumes. As I live in an apartment, most of the times I cannot turn on the volume that much. Maybe up to 25-30 volume level with nac272.

About the floor stand, I tried monitor audio rx6 before, but rx2 is better in my place. Tat's why I keep looking bookshelf.  I also interested raidho X2 as floor stand, but it is over my budget and I couldn't find a second hand around my place. Maybe I should try different floor stands too.

I know it's the same old response so I'll try and make it humerus; 'before you spend you need a dem'. If the seller can't or won't then I'd steer clear. 'Spend on a whim and reflection is likely grim'. 'Spend at a dem, you’ll be happy in your den'. Whatever you choose, enjoy. Rich 

Dyns do need a big of nolune to sound best. That said I often to listen to mine around 30 on the 272 and I have no neighbors to worry about. I will say they do sound better at around 40 but that is loud. In my room I think 35 on the dial is 85-88 dbs. You may want to take a look Dynaudio S40 if you live in an apartment. Those seem like a very good value and should easily fill your apartment while saving some cash. Raidho XT-2 has been a want for me in the past but I’m happy with my Contour 20 for now. 

I’ve owned Dyn’s for many years and would agree that they generally need a bit of volume to come alive. I’ve heard C20’s at a show on the end of a NAP 300 in a large room. They are fantastic, unless you live in a mansion or want to make your ears bleed you don’t need floorstanders. 

I have a pair of S40’s which I am currently compelled to use in a smallish bedroom. I would be inclined to agree that they maybe don’t need to be played so loud as Contours to show their virtues and the suggestion they might be well-suited to your constraints seems a good one. 

I have no experience of Raidho speakers. 

Olly

To expand, I had my C1.3mkII’s in a room about your size for many years on the end of a NAP200. Mrs O told me to “turn it down” on many occasions and you could feel the bass in the room above and (particularly) the adjacent cloakroom. 

Olly

Thank you for your replies. As I found a good deal for C20 in second hand , I wasn't looking to other options. I'll take a look to Dynaudio S40

I listened C20s yesterday . They didn't have the nac272, so I tried with 252 instead. Do you think the pre amp makes a big different on C20s with nap300 ? And yes they sound good on high volume levels. I'll take a look to Dynaudio S40s to give my decision. I also find a good deal on Dynaudio contour 1,3se. Any thoughts about 1,3se?

1.3se are supposed to be a very good speaker. I haven’t heard them but many say one of Dyns gems. 

I couldn't have a chance to listen 1,3se. But I find another speaker Pmc Twenty5.22. I wonder, How does it sound, compared to Dynaudio contour 1,3se?

For a start no point having a demo with a 252 take your 272 to the shop if you can’t home demo your speakers. 

If it where me and I’m sounding like a broken record here I would trade in the 272/555 for a 282/SC or 252/SC you can get a very small dac and streamer if you are worried about size and hide it out the way. 

So far as speakers are concerned be careful as the 300DR is a lot of amp and can over blow the bass with some speakers in medium sized rooms. 

I start thinking the same thing to replace the 272 with 252  . My only concern is, I've to buy headphone amp too

airjordan posted:

I start thinking the same thing to replace the 272 with 252  . My only concern is, I've to buy headphone amp too

Yes but if you just want a headphone amp at least as good as the one in the 272, you don't need to spend a lot of money. A Rega Ear will do just fine. There are many others out there too. If you headphone experience is currently completely satisfactory, then it makes no sense to buy a headphone amp at the same level as the 252.

I’ve owned a CDS3 with 552/300 in the past, and now use a 272/300 and the latter, while not being as good is far from being a night and day or chalk and cheese difference as some might suggest. The RX2 was a £600 speaker when it was discontinued, and your electronics are compatible with something far, far better. For instance, my SL2s were over £6,000 when discontinued and work wonderfully well. So I’d stay focused on getting some good speakers. You can always upgrade the 272 later, but having heard and owned lots of Naim boxes over the years I know that it would cost a lot of money. It’s perfectly legitimate to choose speakers at the dealers using a 252, it’s Naim after all and sounds very similar. 

If you like the MA sound, why not go for Gold 100? They are light years ahead of your RX2. Both Raidho and Dynaudio have completely different sound signatures you might find not that enjoyable. You can even go for Gold 200 (they are quite slim). Truly spectacular and great VFM.

I'm a big fan of Dyns. I've used Contour S1.4 and S3.4, and now Confidence C2 Platinum on my Naim system. I also have a pair of Audience 52SE that I played on them for a couple days once. They all sound great to me at low, moderate or high volume, but I'm also driving them with a 250DR so that may make a difference. I'm told they are are good low volume speakers when you use better amps (250, 300, etc) that can provide better control of the speakers. My experience bears that out.

Sometimes I play classical and jazz at low volumes on my C2s after the wife goes to bed and they sound great.

Thank you all for your replies. Yesterday I listened Dynaudio contour 1,3se with nap300. This time, I took my nac272 with me I couldn't find much difference with C20 when compared their prices.

So as I decided to buy 1,3se, I start thinking about the speaker cables. With Monitor Audio RX2, I'm using supra rondo 4x4 biwire. I tried nacA5 and didn't like with RX2. Not sure which cable to use with 1,3se. Maybe, High fidelity ct1 or Ansuz ceramic speaker cable.

On my way home, I went to my friend's home to give his vinyl which he ordered. And saw his new speakers. Graham Audio LS5/9, with Sun Audio 300B amplifier. It was so musical and the level of clarity was very high. I don't know how it sounds with nap 300? But I'll try on Monday , and give my decision about contour 1,3se.  

I'm a little late on this thread. I would recommend the X1 over the C20. About a month ago I compared the XT1 (not X1) against the C20's. If you want bass the C20's win but if your like me the mids and highs are much more important. That's where the X1's kick butt. Anyhow you mention Ansuz speaker cables. I had the C1 speaker cables and although they have plenty of air and openness I now have the C2 sc's (don't just listen to tonality but listen to the openness and 'soul' in the vocals and instruments). The C2's are a lot better. But you might want to consider power cables instead. After all  a good PC on the nap300 would affect the sound of your entire system instead of just your speakers. I would suggest a X or better yet an A2 pc to start with. I have a D-TC power cable and a Mainz D-TC power distribution unit. Both offer a much much lower noise floor. That in turn lets me play music just a little over twice as loud.  The loudness isn't all that important to me personally but the lower noise floor sure is. More clarity without losing prat.

Forgot to mention I was a die hard Dyn fan for many years

Good luck whatever you do

Octa_dyn posted:

I'm a little late on this thread. I would recommend the X1 over the C20. About a month ago I compared the XT1 (not X1) against the C20's. If you want bass the C20's win but if your like me the mids and highs are much more important. That's where the X1's kick butt. Anyhow you mention Ansuz speaker cables. I had the C1 speaker cables and although they have plenty of air and openness I now have the C2 sc's (don't just listen to tonality but listen to the openness and 'soul' in the vocals and instruments). The C2's are a lot better. But you might want to consider power cables instead. After all  a good PC on the nap300 would affect the sound of your entire system instead of just your speakers. I would suggest a X or better yet an A2 pc to start with. I have a D-TC power cable and a Mainz D-TC power distribution unit. Both offer a much much lower noise floor. That in turn lets me play music just a little over twice as loud.  The loudness isn't all that important to me personally but the lower noise floor sure is. More clarity without losing prat.

Forgot to mention I was a die hard Dyn fan for many years

Good luck whatever you do

Thank you for your reply. Your opinion about raidho XT1 might change everything

Do you think if there is much difference between X1 and XT1?

The XT will have slightly faster transients. Also the lows will dig a hair deeper (maybe 2 hz which isn't all that much since the low end is rated to 80hz). The XT's can also be pushed a little harder. Now if you're familiar with Raidho products the position is critical and not everyone will have the room for them. Ideally they like to be at least 9ft apart. Farther is even better but I ran my D1's - D2's and D2.1's about 7 1/2ft for a couple of years. You want to toe them in pointing to your shoulders. While I had the D2.1's I did finally re-arrange some furniture to get them at 9ft. Sounds a little better at 9ft. 

Another thing I discovered while at my local dealer about a week ago which honestly shocked me regarding positioning. We were setting up some new Borresen speakers and thought we had them positioned properly (just eyeballing them). I thought they sounded great but my dealer said something didn't quite sound right. So we took a tape measure and found there was 1/2 inch difference from the front inner foot to the back wall and got them even. Sounded even better and also he decided to measure the inner rear foot to the rear wall which was basically checking the toe in. I was listening when he corrected that. Wow what a difference. Focus imaging and depth all snapped into place like nothing I had ever heard before. What was also a little amazing was walking off axis improved the sound too. After going home I decided to make the same checks with my setup (BTW I now have D3.1's). Well my one speakers toe in was off by 3/8 inch but the distance to the back wall was dead on. After making that correction everything snapped into place.

Now way back when when I owned Dyn C1 and later the signatures I remember making those same measurements and heard little to no difference although I liked the Dyns when spread 5-7 ft apart. Because of that I really didn't put to much into getting the Raidho's that precise

One last thing regarding the X/XT monitors. The stands are really important since the speakers are bottom ported. The stands actually finish the port to be more of a front port. Also there is 2 stands that mate well with the X/XT series. One is a Raidho and the other is the Scansonic stand. The Scansonic is a bit cheaper and works but for some reason you take the speakers off a couple of times (forgot to mention the speaker bolts to the stand) they kind of turns into junk. The Raidho (even the D1) and Scansonic stands are designed to wobble.

Again Good Luck

George

[@mention:25360285705710963] , Thank you for your detailed explanations. I'll wait to demo XT1 speakers to give my final decision.

[@mention:76328489141448780] You are most welcome. I was trying to explain that Raidho may not be for everyone due to their placement. But if you get it right they are amazing.

You also mentioned speaker cables too. I had Nordost original Frey and thought they were great but after going to some  Ansuz cable demos I decided to give the Ansuz original Ceramic a try. So I bought demo cables knowing they were fully burned in. When I put them in my system I was shocked. I didn't hear a difference .  After swapping the speaker cable back and forth a few of times I really thought I threw away some really big bucks. 4M Frey retailed 3.4K USD vs 5M Ceramic 16.5K retail. Well having nothing to lose I tried something very different. One of each cable. Wow now I heard the difference because I was listening all wrong. I was listening for changes in tonality only. What I heard was a more 'open' sound on one side. Like adding 'soul' to the vocals and instruments. So since the cables were already laid out I flipped the sides and the open-ness followed the Ceramic cable.

Because of that I was thinking that speaker cables didn't make much of a difference in my system. Well one day Lars K from Aavik/Ansuz came to my home with some prototype power and speaker cables. As I mentioned in another thread the prototype power cables was a big step up from my original ceramic. Then he had a 4M ceramic prototype V2 speaker cables that he had to move my IA to get them to fit. The difference was much more noticeable than when I went from the Nordost to Ansuz.  Yes I now have C2 speaker cables and those were new. Honestly they took a few hundred hours to sound like the demo Lars did in my home.

[@mention:25360285705710963] . I have Ansuz mainz x power attached to 555ps and digitalz x cables attached to nac272, and frey rca on cd player.  I really like the result of my power cables and that's why I'm thinking ansuz speaker cables. I find good deal on Ansuz Ceramic Speaker Cables. So I shouldn't miss the opportunity

May I highly suggest Ansuz power distribution if you don't have one already before speaker cables. The new A2 power distribution is quite amazing and it will improve everything you already own. Start with a good foundation being the power that is fed into your system.

edit: Upgrading the the foundation in my system made a huge different in noise floor and also clarity