Electric Bicycles (eBikes)

GeeJay posted:

Timmo1341 posted:

I’ve owned my Raleigh Motus for just over 12 months.

Hi [@mention:46901101887305210] - great bike and also uses the Bosch system as well if I remember correctly.

You reminded me that on the way up to London on Friday by train (to order my bike), I took this photo of the only e-bike in the station bike park (also a Raleigh Motus) - just hope no-one uses the key this person has left in the rear wheel ‘cafe-style’ lock to unlock and steal the battery! 

ATB.  George.

Whoops! Easily done, I’ve caught myself a couple times walking away from the bike leaving the key there! Having said that I always use a good quality cable and D lock, and take off the onboard computer unit (I use the Nyon - great bit of kit).

FYI I use a Thule EasyFold XT 2B Cycle Carrier- really well made piece of kit.

One of these with a young lady on the back will make you feel like a Steve McQueen.

TOBYJUG posted:

 

One of these with a young lady on the back will make you feel like a Steve McQueen.

Erm... can it jump barbed wire fences?

Or did you mean ‘feel like’ as in desire him?

Innocent Bystander posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

 

One of these with a young lady on the back will make you feel like a Steve McQueen.

Erm... can it jump barbed wire fences?

Or did you mean ‘feel like’ as in desire him?

   ??

There is that saying. " Gee, I feel like a million bucks"

I always thought that as meaning to feel very elated,  delighted - as If they had just won a million bucks.

I never had thought it could mean to feel like they were in need of a million bucks, or to desire it.

Although some idioms and well known sayings have confused many for sure.

e-bikes are really great. They're even better if they replace a car. A couple of pointers:

1) The extra horsepower pushed through the chain from the pinion-gearbox style can result in accelerated chain wear. Not a big deal, but keep the chain clean and lubricated. Replace when needed (they're not expensive). The wheel-driven e-bikes don't have this issue, but can be a bit back-heavy for handling at low speed.

2) Beware the extra speed you can carry on shared-use paths. All cyclists should be ultra-careful and give way to pedestrians, but the ability to be a scary monster escalates with an e-bike if you're not careful.

3) Don't buy one of those stupid fat-bike types. It's just show. Any tyres above about 50mm are pretty pointless in my view. 30mm - 40mm tyres work great on gravel trails and other loose surfaces. See point 4.

4) Personally, I don't think they belong on mountain-bike trails. Others will disagree.

Mr Fjeld posted:

Bert Schurink posted:

I also considered to buy one for my daily commute to work, but so far only bought a road bike for sporty drives. As it’s also hilly in my area I wouldn’t consider a normal bike as I would need to shower again at work.

So far I haven’t driven one and was also contemplating what happens over the speed limit indicated...

Bert - you really should use one for the daily commute! I bought an Electra Townie Go (with a Bosch motor) a year ago. Looks like one an old gentlemen's bike with a rack front and back so you can strap on a leather briefcase and arrive at work without a sweaty shirt. I practically live on top of a mountain and it's very hard work to use an ordinary bicycle to work. I have also become less "less social" in the morning and can't stand the friendly chatter on the buss anymore, so using an E-bike is a blessing.

The speed you can achieve down a slope is insane. An e-bike weighs considerable more than a standard bike and when you add my own 100 kilograms of galloping midlife crisis my max speed so far is 73,6 km/h. 

[@mention:13533848853057382] - congratulations with your new bike. Riese & Müller is the best company in the business. A friend of mine has one of those Riese & Müller cargo bikes and it's a fantastic thing.

Be prepared for the service costs though as you will go through your brake pads in no time. I have had them replaced three times already in a year and the service costs add up to around 500 pounds (including winter tyres with spikes, a replaced rear brake disc and replaced brake fluids).

Of course, one could do all the service oneself.

Replacing disc brake pads is trivially easy. Use metal-sintered for a longer life (some cheap discs aren't compatible, but the discs are also cheap to replace). I'm not sure why you'd need to replace the fluid after a year. Should go several years. 

GEEJAY. I hope I haven't offended you with the Unimoke. A specialised item targeted for a certain demographic.

A niche product for a niche customer.

Sometimes a recipe of disaster when it comes to longevity as we don't always feel comfortable fitting in a niche.

TOBYJUG posted:

GEEJAY. I hope I haven't offended you with the Unimoke. A specialised item targeted for a certain demographic....

Not at all TJ!  The Unimoke looks a very fun machine - that’s the thing with eBikes - there’s so much variety and choice for everyone!  As I think we know on this forum, life’s too short not to have fun and enjoy yourself (when you can)!

Like waiting for Naim kit to be built though, the agony of waiting (I waited over 3 months from hearing and ordering an ND555 until delivery and installation last Saturday) is often offset by the pleasure of finally taking delivery!  I’m really looking forward to my new R&M eBike in December!

Hope everyone’s having a great weekend!

ATB. George.

[@mention:1566878603968902], you make some good points, and governments are waking up to the increasing number of eBikes and regulations thereof.  If you watch any of the EBR (Electric Bike Review) videos from Rye Court and Cris Nolte, you’ll have seen that there was ambiguity in New York (until fairly recently) on speed restrictions and limitations, whilst in the Eu, unless your eBike is restricted to 25kph (15.5mph), after which pedal assist from the motor is shut off, it will be classified as a moped and can’t be ridden on cycle lanes, or other paths intentended for bicycles, plus also has to be registered with the DVLA, have a rear number plate, full moped insurance and the rider must wear a proper motorcycle helmet.  

In addition, in the U.K., the Highway Code is being reviewed and updated specifically with cyclists and pedestrians in mind.  Interesting article here.

ATB.  George

Yes good points Winkyincanada,  only yesterday I was waiting a traffic light main road junction with a cycle path crossing. An e-bike crosses in front of me with the rider looking a bit wide eyed & not confident wobbled across the mid road island & straight across into live traffic,  the van stops OK but the cyclist now scared out of his wits got to the cycle path & promptly crashed in a heap.    Proficiency testing comes to mind, as does insurance & licencing. 

Am I right in thinking there are two ways that bikes apply the drive, one being switched on with a hand controlled throttle, available whether or not you pedal, the other simply being assistance, so if you stop pedalling the power ceases to be applied? The latter seems safer, especially for someone maybe used to push-bikes but not ridden a motorbike, possibly less likely to lead to the situation Mike-B describes (but less useful if you want to use the bike to get you home when you’ve ridden too far for your ageing muscles).

These Xiaomi scooters are very popular here now, perfect for city commuting where you can carry in your boot and on a train or tube 

Innocent Bystander posted:

Am I right in thinking there are two ways that bikes apply the drive, one being switched on with a hand controlled throttle, available whether or not you pedal, the other simply being assistance, so if you stop pedalling the power ceases to be applied? The latter seems safer, especially for someone maybe used to push-bikes but not ridden a motorbike, possibly less likely to lead to the situation Mike-B describes (but less useful if you want to use the bike to get you home when you’ve ridden too far for your ageing muscles).

[@mention:41551091830475636] - Certainly in the U.K., to be classed as an “electrically assisted pedal cycle” (or EAPC, or ebike, or Pedelec); the bike has pedals that propel it; the electric motor won’t assist you when you’re travelling more than 25 km/h (15.5mph); and the power doesn’t exceed 250 watts.

From January 1 2016, the only throttles legal within the UK’s EAPC legislation are those that assist the rider without pedalling up to a maximum speed of 6 km/h (3.7 mph) – ie starting assistance only or the so called ‘walk assist’ if the bike is heavily loaded and there is a very steep gradient to climb.

If the rider is rolling – but not pedalling – faster than 6km/h, the throttle cuts off. If the cyclist pedals at the same time then the throttle can still assist up to the general limit of 15.5mph.  (Reference).

Certainly, the health advantages of the older ‘derestricted’ throttle activated eBikes are less than a pedelec, where the rider has to pedal in order to gain electric assistance..

Not sure about elsewhere in the world, and I believe that throttle activated eBikes may still be sold in parts of the US.

ATB.  George.

Thanks George - I was aware of the 15mph limit but not the 6 for throttle.

For someone like me starting to contemplate buying an e-bike you’ve started a very useful and informative thread, courtesy of all contributors of course.

It does seem that there are some significant factors to balance/compromise: weight, gear range, powered range, etc., perhaps all the more so as I will only be looking towards the bottom end of the price range (I was really only anticipating spending maybe up to £1500, and certainly under £2k). inevitably at some point I will need to make a shortlist and go and try - but as my planned need for one is still a couple of years or so away it seems premature as it is still a young market with developments in technology still happening and new players coming into the market. I therefore am a passive freeloader here, just soaking it all up!

The way I picture using one, though this said without any experience of them, is only using on steeper or longer ascents (road/cycle path only), but maybe on even gentle uphill stretches - and those uses likely to increase over the years as I get more decrepid!

That prompts a couple more questions:

How steep a hill can a 250W e-bike manage without pedal input by the rider (albeit <3.7mph)? 

is it feasible to carry a spare battery to increase range - or do they add so much weight that it is self-defeating?

Batteries are normally built in aren’t they and quite big and heavy.

Drewy posted:

Batteries are normally built in aren’t they and quite big and heavy.

Batteries can be mounted into the frame, on the frame (like a water bottle) or built into rear pannier rack. Typical weight for a Bosch 500W battery is 2.6kg.  Bikes also available with multiple batteries....

ATB.  George

Innocent Bystander posted:

Thanks George - I was aware of the 15mph limit but not the 6 for throttle.

For someone like me starting to contemplate buying an e-bike you’ve started a very useful and informative thread, courtesy of all contributors of course.

It does seem that there are some significant factors to balance/compromise: weight, gear range, powered range, etc., perhaps all the more so as I will only be looking towards the bottom end of the price range (I was really only anticipating spending maybe up to £1500, and certainly under £2k). inevitably at some point I will need to make a shortlist and go and try - but as my planned need for one is still a couple of years or so away it seems premature as it is still a young market with developments in technology still happening and new players coming into the market. I therefore am a passive freeloader here, just soaking it all up!

I think there are bargains to be had but a general advice is to look for a bike in the 2000,- to 3000,- range, if reliability is a concern. Most bikes with Bosch and Yamaha motors is to be found with a price tag like that. As you say there will be many more new models and motors to come in the future and the price will most certainly go down.

Innocent Bystander posted:

The way I picture using one, though this said without any experience of them, is only using on steeper or longer ascents (road/cycle path only), but maybe on even gentle uphill stretches - and those uses likely to increase over the years as I get more decrepid!

That prompts a couple more questions:

How steep a hill can a 250W e-bike manage without pedal input by the rider (albeit <3.7mph)? 

is it feasible to carry a spare battery to increase range - or do they add so much weight that it is self-defeating?

As far as I’m aware, and this certainly applies to my Raleigh Motus, e-bikes will not deliver any form of assistance in the absence of pedal power! Your effort is simply assisted, albeit with different levels of power, by the motor. My wife and I have managed, fairly comfortably, to ride up the hill to The Needles (IOW), and Vimy Ridge in Normandy. Both gradients are pretty long and unremitting and neither would have been possible using unassisted pedal power.

Mercky posted:

These Xiaomi scooters are very popular here now, perfect for city commuting where you can carry in your boot and on a train or tube 

Indeed.

Rode an "Lime" shared-use e-scooter in Paris a few weeks back. Great way to get around. Almost as versatile as walking, but faster. With respect from users, they seem to mix OK with pedestrians up to a point. Better than bikes, anyway. I think they have a real place in cities, especially as cars (thankfully) continue to be removed from downtown areas. An upside of scooter use is that the shared use companies have incentive to support (lobby-for and actually finance) infrastructure. They might also just be the "last km" solution that is needed to make transit much more viable and attractive.

Those that can't contemplate anything other than driving everywhere for absolutely everything won't get it.

GeeJay posted:

[@mention:1566878603968902], you make some good points, and governments are waking up to the increasing number of eBikes and regulations thereof.  If you watch any of the EBR (Electric Bike Review) videos from Rye Court and Cris Nolte, you’ll have seen that there was ambiguity in New York (until fairly recently) on speed restrictions and limitations, whilst in the Eu, unless your eBike is restricted to 25kph (15.5mph), after which pedal assist from the motor is shut off, it will be classified as a moped and can’t be ridden on cycle lanes, or other paths intended for bicycles, plus also has to be registered with the DVLA, have a rear number plate, full moped insurance and the rider must wear a proper motorcycle helmet.  

In addition, in the U.K., the Highway Code is being reviewed and updated specifically with cyclists and pedestrians in mind.  Interesting article here.

ATB.  George

 

Like many things, legislation is playing catch-up. My observation is that while non-pedal-necessary e-bikes are rare here, their riders tend to be  aggressive, and play fast and loose with the law (I think the bikes they are riding are also mostly illegal here). The pedal-assist types are just the same as regular bikes in the way they interact with other road users. So, a mix. Not always great, but usually OK without creating significant risks. My concern is mainly with shared-use paths.

Drewy posted:

Batteries are normally built in aren’t they and quite big and heavy.

You might want to check on how easy they are to remove to take somewhere (like into the office or house) for charging. If you have charging points in your bike storage (like we do) it isn't an issue. (Side note: Last month, while climbing Stelvio Pass on my (decidedly non-electric) road bike, I noticed that the bar/restaurant half-way up offered e-bike charging for those riders whose bikes needed a bit a of a top-up.

Timmo1341 posted:

Innocent Bystander posted:

 

As far as I’m aware, and this certainly applies to my Raleigh Motus, e-bikes will not deliver any form of assistance in the absence of pedal power! Your effort is simply assisted, albeit with different levels of power, by the motor. My wife and I have managed, fairly comfortably, to ride up the hill to The Needles (IOW), and Vimy Ridge in Normandy. Both gradients are pretty long and unremitting and neither would have been possible using unassisted pedal power.

Oh dear... you'll probably be hanged, drawn and quartered by the locals for putting Vimy Ridge in Normandy, Timmo!

Mind you, if you go into hiding until March 30th, you'll be ok - I don't suppose post-Brexit Britain will want to have reciprocal extradition agreements with its neighbours. Just stay put after that.

Mr Fjeld posted:

I think there are bargains to be had but a general advice is to look for a bike in the 2000,- to 3000,- range, if reliability is a concern. Most bikes with Bosch and Yamaha motors is to be found with a price tag like that. As you say there will be many more new models and motors to come in the future and the price will most certainly go down.

That's quite a bit more than I was expecting - and quite a challenge with two bikes to get (my wife as well), Much deliberation needed... (I'm not selling the hifi to buy!)

Don’t forget that you’ll need a power supply ????????