If the NAIM sound is really superlative and true..

IMO l have never heard any hi fi regardless of cost reproduce live music,there is two types of music Acoustic & Amplified,you go to a consert and it is still going through a mixing desk,go to a pub and here live musicians playing unamplified,totally different,if you hear a drummer on a recording totally different if you heard it live in a room,just my opinion!.

Bert Schurink posted:

 

I think every brand has a color. Eve the ones which are presumed to be neutral.

Paraphrasing Orwell, all hifi is coloured, some more coloured than others...

And so me people prefer less colour added to the music than others. 

My family and I go to a lot of live acoustic events, jazz more so than orchestral. Other events will be using amplification. So, I still want my reproduced music, coloured or not, to remind me of the original. Rich 

Bob green posted:

IMO l have never heard any hi fi regardless of cost reproduce live music,there is two types of music Acoustic & Amplified,you go to a consert and it is still going through a mixing desk,go to a pub and here live musicians playing unamplified,totally different,if you hear a drummer on a recording totally different if you heard it live in a room,just my opinion!.

..and even in the pub, the sound at the front compared to the rear can be very different (well, to my ears anyhow) due, in part, to all the sound absorbing people around the place. I like the often visceral feel (inc. being slightly 'bright') of being at/near the front...which can sometimes mean my living room joins in the fun! 

I'm sure a lot of us have been to dealer demo's/in some dem' rooms where it has been suggested the SQ is quite/very good whereas I've been thinking completely the opposite...and can we play some of Who's Next at 10pm on the dial, rather than the staple diet of bass-light female vocalist music.

Happy Listener posted:

 

I'm sure a lot of us have been to dealer demo's/in some dem' rooms where it has been suggested the SQ is quite/very good whereas I've been thinking completely the opposite...and can we play some of Who's Next at 10pm on the dial, rather than the staple diet of bass-light female vocalist music.

 

Last time I went auditioning, dealers’ choice for demoing invariably was jazz...  

But put on some heavy rock (loud of course), dramatic orchestral at “realistic” level - some opera is good because it can include both male and female vocals laden with emotion, some prog rock with bass pedals, some chamber music, and some solo piano, and if they all sound good the system must be doing something right - or rather, something likeable. That is where comparing comes in - which system makes everything sound “right”, not just good? And if that is not the same thing, what is the difference, why, and which is better for you, the person  listening, or must the search continue until right and good coincide?

When I demo'd new speakers I brought my own varied selection of music.  Covered Black Sabbath to Norah Jones 

Plus my dealer just left me with the streamer control pad so anything I fancied was also available via Tidal.  The speakers I bought were good with all of the selections.  There's no point in Norah Jones sounding good if Rag'n'Bone Man sounds castrated!

I do have a problem with relying on a dealer demo to make expensive Naim buying decisions, even if you take your own music along to listen to. My recent experience listening to a ND555 and a 552 at a dealer using my own music, due to the very different listening room/environment to mine at home, only gave me a clue to the ultimate potential of both these top-notch components.

I needed to select one for home demo and I went with the 552. It was only when I got it installed at home, could I hear the full potential of this wonderful pre amp, and that was with inferior power amp (Naim) and speakers to those used for the dealer demo.

We are so fortunate in this country to be able to conduct home demos of Naim kit before we part with large sums of cash, and I am always amazed when I hear of some who are prepared to take a 'punt' on expensive items. I realise that, for overseas Naimees, things are different.

My experience from working for a record label, albeit some years ago now, is that hifi ownership is not common and, J.N. John may well be right in saying the incidence is the same as that in the general population.  It is certainly the case that recording engineering is only  a job for many and the results they achieve is the result  of professional ability. The "real music lovers" that worked in the creative side of the music business tended to be more excited about live music; what they wanted most from their playback systems was an accurate sense of what the recording playback would sound like to the average customer - so in house kit tended to be mid level hifi through studio type speakers (Tannoy or Yamaha NS10) or through adapters that channeled the output through FM radio sets.

It is not uncommon to find people working with high levels of professionalism and low levels of enthusiasm in occupations that represent real passions for hobbyists. As a leisure pilot I've had several dismal conversations with commercial pilots who hate the job but carry on doing it - even to a very high standard - because it's their living.

nigelb posted:

We are so fortunate in this country to be able to conduct home demos of Naim kit before we part with large sums of cash, and I am always amazed when I hear of some who are prepared to take a 'punt' on expensive items. I realise that, for overseas Naimees, things are different.

Indeed. Home demos are a rare thing and if they were a sticking point, this industry would collapse overnight except for a few people living in the UK buying local brands I expect.

In fact, in many countries, even dealer demo's don't exist in any meaningful sense. It's the norm where I am for $200K worth of gear to be crammed in a room with 50 other speakers, switchboxes to flip between amp and speaker combos and have other customers wandering about the demo room. I mean, you really might as well not bother.

I suspect one of the reasons the Japanese hi end market is so hung up on specs (the detail on spec sheets is astronomical) is because what is on paper is the most meaningful thing left to choose from next to how it bloody well looks. Another feature of hifi purchasing outside of the UK is a lot of horse trading. In a sense, every demo is a "paid" home demo and people buy and sell on at a very rapid pace. 

I laugh every time I read on the forum "the only way to choose speakers is by home audition". I know people mean well, but now I've spent half my life out of the UK, my brain translates those comments as "you lot out of the UK, should just give up and find another hobby".

I've just discovered that I can't read posts more than two lines long. I'll try to stick with this same principle if I'll post myself.

Feeling Zen,

Always enjoy reading what you post.Out of interest what Country did you do retail in ?

Thanks Ian

@TABBY CAT in my youth I worked in hifi retail in the UK part and full time for about 6 years. 

This was the mid 90s and you could get away with more back then. At one stage I was working 3 days a week that I should have been attending 6th form. I got more knowledge from that shop and the opposing Linnite and Naimaphile blokes that ran it than I ever got from going to school. 

I suspect these days they'd have had parents, the shop owners, or both in court for facilitating years of truency. 

When I wanted to start my own business they helped out by being the first client for design and IT services that led directly to where I am now. I owe a lot to that little eccentric hifi shop on the edge of the cotswolds.

Thanks Feeling Zen,

Just looked at your very consise profile infomation - Apologies should have done it before.

Wishing you and family a Very Happy Christmas and Magic 2019

Cheers Ian.

Is the Naim sound superlative? For me it is more about being involved with my music. To keep on listening rather than getting bored. I am looking to be entertained. So a large, if flat, soundstage with good dynamics and a sense of musicians playing together is what I like. A live sound.  I doubt notions of accuracy or colour have much to do with it. I am not chasing the original sound, I have no means of knowing what that was.

Stu

Haim Ronen posted:

..why so very few among the professionals who are best equipped to evaluate it, musicians, recording engineers and Hi Fi reviewers, own NAIM gear?

Evidence please.

Loki posted:

Haim Ronen posted:

..why so very few among the professionals who are best equipped to evaluate it, musicians, recording engineers and Hi Fi reviewers, own NAIM gear?

Evidence please.

For years Stereophile magazine interviewed musicians and sound engineers and part of the interview was always a question about their sound systems at home. No one had ever mentioned NAIM. I have been subscribing for the last 15 years to The Absolute Sound as well as Stereophile magazines which are the largest HI FI publications in the US. Their reviewers always specify their systems to which the tested components are compared and only one writer, Art Dudley, admitted to owning a CD 3 player and a Nait and that was over 20years ago.

So how many professionals in the field that own NAIM do you know?

Hi Haim,

I can't answer your question because I don't know any.

I'm interested in what lies behind it. It looks to me to be motivated by a sense of loyalty to what may be a fairly niche brand in North America.

Your pleasure in your ownership of your mid nineties 'slimline' set has always come over.

Best, C.

I know of several classical musicians who have a Naim system.   But one classical musician I know very well told me that music was his “day job” and he little inclination or time to listen to music at home.  

Regards,

Lindsay

Hello, my name is Dave, and I'm a Naimaholic ................ and although I only stumble aimlessly around a guitar fretboard,

I have played "professionally", just the once, many years ago ............. does this count?

No, thought not.  

dave marshall posted:

Hello, my name is Dave, and I'm a Naimaholic ................ and although I only stumble aimlessly around a guitar fretboard,

I have played "professionally", just the once, many years ago ............. does this count?

No, thought not.  

Aahhhhh......bless.

Keep on strumming, Dave!

Scarce availability, high price, low power, unbalanced and DIN plugs.

Haim, in the UK there are a number of reviewers who use Naim, either partially or even entirely, as their kit of choice, as well as for their standard reference by which to judge other kit. I know of some others around the world who do similarly, including at least two well known journalists in the US. As for musicians, again, I know a few well known names, but I'm sure there are plenty I don't know about.  Same for recording engineers...

Paul Messinger,Malcolm stewart,to name but 2!.

Richard Dane posted:

Haim, in the UK there are a number of reviewers who use Naim, either partially or even entirely, as their kit of choice, as well as for their standard reference by which to judge other kit. I know of some others around the world who do similarly, including at least two well known journalists in the US. As for musicians, again, I know a few well known names, but I'm sure there are plenty I don't know about.  Same for recording engineers...

Hi Richard,

See my post above ...................... coulda been a contender, but sadly, no. 

I still think Naim should provide a decent manual with ther ND555, not just the starter book,l could have solved a problem myself if l had a manual,instead of waiting to hear from Naim for two & a half weeks!.