ATC SCM11s: any alternatives?

Kevin-W posted:

Thanks Nigel. Speakers are one thing I'd never buy off The Well Known Auction Site! Yes, there would indeed be a solid brick wall behind them.

No reason at all why not - the same care required as anything else secondhand. I found my present soeakers through eBay, took my old speakers amp with me to do a comparative audition, spent a pleasant few hours at the owner’s house, took my speakers away and did some further auditions elsewhere on a big road trip, decided on the EBs and had the owner ship them to me. I could have gone back to collect, but having enjoyed the seller’s hospitality and through my time at his house deciding I had confidence in him to send and to properly package - received satisfactorily.

Just popped into my dealer for a quick chat about this protracted saga (the PMCs I'm auditioning, I'm not really getting on with after being initially impressed), and Dynaudio Special Forty was mentioned as a good match for olive 72-Hi-250. Lovely looking speakers, great build and finish, and from the briefest of listens, they reminded me a little of the HB1s - but much better of course.

Got them on home dem from Monday on.

I auditioned the ATC SCM 11 and 19 in a home demo last year. I bought the 19s and think they are very good value at their price point. I found the SCM19 to be the more refined of the two and could not warm up the SCM 11s - which are great but a perhaps a bit hifi?  Its possible the 11s from the dealer were not fully broken in.  ATCs seems to take some time to break in and  be their best.  The 19s required more power than my then Non-DR NAP 250 whereas the 11s were fine with the 250.  A subsequent up grade to a NAP 250DR was much improved with the 19s. I recognize the 250 and 250DR are similar power ratings but the DR version is somehow subjectively a more powerful amp.  I have since moved to a larger amp and the ATCs love the additional control.  I use Skylan stands, a low mass speaker stand made in Canada from fiberglass posts.  Seems to work very well with the ATCs. I have not tried the ATC 7s so can't comment on those.  I'm a convert to close boxed speakers and the ATC brand since my purchase of the SCM  19s.  

I have the 11 and having owned the 19 I would say there is not that much in it. I would think the 11 you listened had low hours as mine are new but suddenly this week after about 100 hrs they have suddenly opened up and have more depth and subtlety..

In my experience the 19s have more authority and a slightly more prominent lower mid... the new ATCs, unlike their legacy counterparts, don’t require as much power for them to boogey.. the NaitXS2 sounds wonderful with the 19s

I've had a pair of Dynaudio Special Forty on home dem since this morning and - while I think positioning isn't quite right yet - I'm very, very impressed already.

Fabulous detail and stereo imagery, awesome (but lean, not boomy) bass and good rhythmic grip. They're fast and they're fun. These I think I could live with - I look forward to hearing more of them, with a variety of different sources and types of music, over the net couple of weeks.

Kevin-W posted:

I've had a pair of Dynaudio Special Forty on home dem since this morning and - while I think positioning isn't quite right yet - I'm very, very impressed already.

Fabulous detail and stereo imagery, awesome (but lean, not boomy) bass and good rhythmic grip. They're fast and they're fun. These I think I could live with - I look forward to hearing more of them, with a variety of different sources and types of music, over the net couple of weeks.

 

Dynaudios are a good match for Naim, if you've the sort of room for them. They're best off in plenty of space and little toe-in if any. The bass can be overwhelming but it's their grip, composure and dynamic delivery which converted me some 14 years ago and I still have the same pair today. Mind you, they like to be driven hard and I think they sound their best at higher volumes. 

They do seem to be a good match for my 72-Hi-250 setup [@mention:76469591777888342]. I love the fact that they're so realistic and so detailed, without sounding too "hifi" - even at comparatively low volumes they're still fun and engaging, unlike the ATCs which I found a teensy bit boring, or the PMCs which were a bit bass-light and not great with rock. They're quite a  lot over my budget, and only time will tell if they are worth it but I think they will be. I really, really like them.

Superb build quality and handsome looks to boot.

Kevin-W posted:

They do seem to be a good match for my 72-Hi-250 setup [@mention:76469591777888342]. I love the fact that they're so realistic and so detailed, without sounding too "hifi" - even at comparatively low volumes they're still fun and engaging, unlike the ATCs which I found a teensy bit boring, or the PMCs which were a bit bass-light and not great with rock. They're quite a  lot over my budget, and only time will tell if they are worth it but I think they will be. I really, really like them.

Superb build quality and handsome looks to boot.

All I can say is I recently home demo'd some SCM-11's, PMC Twenty5.21's and ProAct 10 Tablettes and my Dyns (which are ancient Contour Mk2's ) showed all of them a clean pair of heels. They're good at doing the "disappearing" thing too , such is the strength and scale of the stage they can produce. Great speakers which come at a price but I reckon you'd be well into £3k+ territory to beat them. At the time, I did a face-off against a pair of Wilson Benesch Arcs, fabulous looking speaker, sounded a bit better but not £1k better! Oh, and don't forget to the take the grilles off unless you like your treble to be rolled off.

Kevin-W posted:

I've had a pair of Dynaudio Special Forty on home dem since this morning and - while I think positioning isn't quite right yet - I'm very, very impressed already.

Fabulous detail and stereo imagery, awesome (but lean, not boomy) bass and good rhythmic grip. They're fast and they're fun. These I think I could live with - I look forward to hearing more of them, with a variety of different sources and types of music, over the net couple of weeks.

Kevin, 

Interesting to read about your impressions of the Special 40. I’ve heard them at shows (along with the Emit and Xcite range) and have been very impressed with Dynaudio speakers overall, even under these less than ideal circumstances. Good to read the home demo is proving fruitful and these could be 'the ones'. If so, hope you go for the red option as they look rather good in that finish!

As you have sealed box Heybrook HB1 speakers, I’m assuming you had them pretty close to a rear wall for low frequency reinforcement? Compared to the HB1, how much surrounding free space do the Dynaudios need to avoid the dreaded rear port boom? My sealed box MA 252 (similar vintage to the HB1) are only 20cm from the back wall, so I'd more or less removed them from my audition list.

Look forward to more updates as you experiment with placement.

[@mention:1566878603961650], you're right, the HB1s were were very close to the rear walls. At the moment, the S40s are about 55cm away from the wall, which after quite a lot of fiddling, seems to be the ideal position for them in this room.

I really love the Heybrooks, that's why I've had them almost 35 years, and oddly the S40s remind me of them - they have all the speed and fun and boogie factor of the HB1s, but with better imaging, realism and detail. I think I might be falling in love!

My home dem pair are in red, but I do like the grey birch as well. The listening room is decorated in a yellow wash, and with the black/olive of the hifi and TV they (red) do look rather nice, even The Termagant is quite happy.

Yetizone posted:

 

As you have sealed box Heybrook HB1 speakers, I’m assuming you had them pretty close to a rear wall for low frequency reinforcement? Compared to the HB1, how much surrounding free space do the Dynaudios need to avoid the dreaded rear port boom? My sealed box MA 252 (similar vintage to the HB1) are only 20cm from the back wall, so I'd more or less removed them from my audition list.

Look forward to more updates as you experiment with placement.

FWIW, Dynaudios are really best in as much free space as possible, the bass response is quite extraordinary for such  small speakers so getting off the rear wall is important to avoid the dreaded bass boom. I moved home in the Summer and have had to install my Dyns in an alcove setting which has brought on the dreaded bass boom!

Dynaudio provide foam bungs for the rear ports which I actually don't like, I find they kill the sound. I've experimented with different damping materials and have settled on a sheet of toilet tissue folded over enough times to make a square which covers the rear port and have stuck in place with gaffer tape. Yes, very heath robinson but actually works really well! So, if you've got a setting where your speakers need to be near a rear wall give that a whirl, you might be pleasantly surprised.

@Kevin-W. Thanks for the detailed info about placement, very much appreciated.

At the show / dem I attended, the Dynaudio bod swapped out the Special 40 for the more expensive Contour20 stand mounts (lovely) and this proved rather insightful. Even though the C20 were clearly an obvious improvement, there wasn't the leap in performance I was expecting given the price difference. Special 40 indeed.

Placing the Dyns 55cm away from the wall is a little further than expected I must say, but those ports need quite a bit of room to breath I guess. Great you have the space to make them work away from the wall. If half a meter rear space is a prerequisite, I think the Dyns could be out of the equation for me. Edit. Maybe not, just saw Jonners post while typing..

@Jonners. Ah - that's very interesting. I've heard ported speakers where their bass response was more or less smothered by the use of the port bungs, so always thought that was a compromise best avoided. Have to admit that I'd never thought of tinkering with alternative materials. I think I'm just going to have to get a dem organised and see once and for all if I can make them work. 

Kevin-W posted:

 

My home dem pair are in red, but I do like the grey birch as well. The listening room is decorated in a yellow wash, and with the black/olive of the hifi and TV they (red) do look rather nice, even The Termagant is quite happy.

Change the walls to a minty green wash and really make those red birch Dyn cabinets colour pop!

Jonners posted:

FWIW, Dynaudios are really best in as much free space as possible, the bass response is quite extraordinary for such  small speakers

It really is quite extraordinary Jonners. The Special 40 is just 14.2" by 7.8" by 12.1". There must be some serious tech in those things (I know nothing about speakers, except what I hear).

@Kevin-W,

You may be interested to know that Ed Selley over on AVForums has named the Dynaudio Special 40 his “Product of the Year”.

The Blurb: “As a subjective area, very few Hi-Fi products can demonstrate almost universal appeal. The Special Forty is the exception to that rule. It's compact, easy to accommodate and simply beautifully made and finished. It then goes on to deliver a level of performance that is truly untouchable at the asking price. It is accurate, capable of scale far beyond what you'd expect and it does this while sounding utterly joyous. This is everything that Hi-Fi should be in an exquisitely made box and for this reason, it's the Hi-Fi product of the year 2018.”

Naim also get the gong with the Uniti Star for the “Best All-In-One Hi-Fi 2018”

[@mention:1566878603961650] - That doesn't surprise me at all. They are amazing for their size and given their ease with a wide variety of music on different carriers, and that gorgeous build quality and finish, remarkably good value for money.

I've had them on home dem for just six days but I think I'm already utterly won over by them. A really remarkable speaker.

What does everyone think? Woulds red (as pictured here) or grey work best in this room?

Grey! Even though I love the red finish (would be my choice in my white listening room), I personally think yellow and red don't go that well together

Glad these stunning boxes are working out

The Red looks great but I'd definitely buy the Grey as they'll look good with most colour rooms . I heard the special 40s in a HUGE room earlier this year and mightily impressive they were  too . Dynaudio are wonderful speakers , I had a pair of Audience 50 for many years with a CD 3.5 and Nait 2 , it was a brilliant system and I always regretted replacing the speakers ... 

Enjoy !!

Kevin-W posted:

What does everyone think? Woulds red (as pictured here) or grey work best in this room?

Hi Kev I have a yellow living room so understand your dilemma regarding colour. For what it’s worth I would go for the more neutral gray which will be a bit more future proof should your taste in decor change.....Regards G

Also Very Happy Christmas to you and yours.                        

Yetizone posted:

Grey! Even though I love the red finish (would be my choice in my white listening room), I personally think yellow and red don't go that well together

Glad these stunning boxes are working out

Plus 1 for the grey! The red is a little bling for me particularly in gloss finish

Kevin-W posted:

[@mention:1566878603961650] - That doesn't surprise me at all. They are amazing for their size and given their ease with a wide variety of music on different carriers, and that gorgeous build quality and finish, remarkably good value for money.

I've had them on home dem for just six days but I think I'm already utterly won over by them. A really remarkable speaker.

 

Kev,

Result mate.It must be giving your record collection a shot in the arm hearing all this new detail in familiar recordings with the Dyn's.Also the with the HB 1's the drivers where probably getting a bit tired,or nicely run in like 35 years worth of run in !

Will you hold on to the HB1's for a 2nd system ?   You could easily pick up a NAD,Creek,Denon intergrated for less than £50 might be a fun project.

Cheers Ian

Cheers Ian. Yep everything sounding great - although it sounds as if my cart is due for a replacement (it's five years old and gets a lot of use) so come January or thereabouts I guess I will be swapping my Klyde up for a Krystal.

Already had an offer for the Heybrooks but turned it down. I'm very attached to them so will put into storage until I can find a use for them.

Quad 33 posted:

Hi Kev I have a yellow living room so understand your dilemma regarding colour. For what it’s worth I would go for the more neutral gray which will be a bit more future proof should your taste in decor change.....Regards G

Also Very Happy Christmas to you and yours.                        

And to you and yours G.