NDX and Chord Hugo

Posted by: Foxman50 on 18 April 2014

I have been contemplating adding a DAC to my NDX/XPS2 to see (or should that be hear) what it can bring to the party. And so thought it about time i made inroads into Having a few home demos. After looking around at products that are within my budget i came across the Chord Hugo DAC.

 

Although it is meant to be a portable headphone unit, it can be used as a full line level fixed DAC.

 

The dealer lent me a TQ black digital coax lead, which have twist grip plugs. This was required as the present batch of Hugo's have a case design fault that wont allow any decent cable to fit, soon to be rectified. Thankfully the TQ just manages to hang on to the coax port.

 

Once all connected and gone through the minimal setup procedure of the Hugo, what does the red LED mean again, i left it to warm up for half an hour.

 

Poured a beer and sat down for an evenings listening.

 

What was that, where did that come from, that's what that instrument is. OMG, as my little'n would say, Where is it getting all this detail from.

 

After spending last night and today with it, all i can say is that it has totally transformed my system from top to bottom. I never considered my NDX to be veiled or shut in, not even sure that's the correct terms. All i can say is its opened up the sound stage and space around instruments. Everything I've put through it has had my toes, feet and legs tapping away to the music.

 

Even putting the toe tapping, the resolution the clarity to one side, what its greatest achievement for me has been in making albums that I've had trouble listening too enjoyable now.

 

One added bonus is that it has made the XPS redundant. I cannot hear any difference with it in or out of the system.

 

While i thought a DAC may make a change in the degree of the jump from ND5 to NDX, i was not prepared for this. Anyone looking at adding a PSU to there NDX may want to check this unit out first.

 

For me this has to be the bargain of the year.

 

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by Jude2012
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Dave - thanks for introducing me to Evan Christopher - 

 

Bert - I think I probably will yes.

 

Pete - yes I like my NDX - I love it usability and it feeds the Hugo perfectly.

 

Jan - the term 'taps' is also referred to coefficients or Filter Length. When reconstructing audio from digital data one passes the data through a transformation filter. (often a FIR) This filter is like a window that passes along the stream of data. The longer the window, the more accurately the data is filtered with out artefacting such as ringing and a  lack of precision and loss of fine / micro detail.  Theoretically for a perfectly reconstructed audio signal the filter needs to be as long as the signal itself. In the real world this isn't achievable for audio, so a compromise is chosen. In the earlier days a larger number of taps - or longer filter lengths - required more processing power and current that could be often economically applied accurately - but new technology allows a larger amount of processing power with low power and still retain precision - and the Hugo appears to be an example of this.

 

This might be of interest - a little technical - but has some diagrams of impact of short and long filter lengths

 

http://www.vyssotski.ch/Basics...n_of_FIR_Filters.pdf

 

Jude - thanks for the remarks.

 

Simon

Simon, 

 

Could you say how how you controlled the volume? (Via Hugo or via 282) and what the Hugo was set to?

 

Jude 

 

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by Foxman50

Cvrle

 

 Thanks i had found the convert format but didn't notice that options screen open up. Screen is tiny on this netbook.

 

not got time to test them out but god the file size is 4 times the size of the original flac file. Not sure i will have enough storage capacity to do my whole library.

 

cheers

 

Graeme

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hi Jude, I power on the Hugo in line out mode, but set the level so the level light is turquoise. I use the  NAC therefore as the volume control.

Simon

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Hi Jude, I power on the Hugo in line out mode, but set the level so the level light is turquoise. I use the  NAC therefore as the volume control.

Simon

Simon, what was the reason for changing the volume. Did it alter SQ

 

Graeme

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by cvrle
Originally Posted by Foxman50:

Cvrle

 

 Thanks i had found the convert format but didn't notice that options screen open up. Screen is tiny on this netbook.

 

not got time to test them out but god the file size is 4 times the size of the original flac file. Not sure i will have enough storage capacity to do my whole library.

 

cheers

 

Graeme

Yes DSD files are bigger, but you should be able to test some good tracks, you don't need to do the whole library yet. I converted only my hirez PCM files for now. I am converting red book stuff on fly.

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by Jude2012
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Hi Jude, I power on the Hugo in line out mode, but set the level so the level light is turquoise. I use the  NAC therefore as the volume control.

Simon

Thanks Simon

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Graeme, I set the level such that it appeared to match my NAT03 on the NAC volume dial. When I set at full level it seemed  to overload the NAC on peaks, and normal listening was only at 6.30/7.00.. Not very useful. It's now about 9.30 /10.00

Simon

 

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by PhilP

Excellent write-up Simon. I'm sorry that I doubted earlier... 

 

Re. The earlier question from someone about whether you used the 555 to power the NDX. I've been trying the Devialet 200 using the NDX as a streamer and surprisingly find the sound is better when I'm using an XPS2 to power it...  Strange when the NDX is only acting as a streamer ( not a DAC)

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by james n
Originally Posted by PhilP:

Excellent write-up Simon. I'm sorry that I doubted earlier... 

 

Re. The earlier question from someone about whether you used the 555 to power the NDX. I've been trying the Devialet 200 using the NDX as a streamer and surprisingly find the sound is better when I'm using an XPS2 to power it...  Strange when the NDX is only acting as a streamer ( not a DAC)

Yes i found the same with my old NDX with an external DAC hence the question. 

 

James

 

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by PhilP

And it's not a subtle difference either. I was hoping to lose the XPS and maybe even NDX + XPS and replace with a Synology NAS (has specific software for Devialet) but this seems not to be the optimum route

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by james n

The NDX is a good source for the Devialet via S/PDIF but the Ethernet port (IMHO) is better - worth a try if you can.

 

Back to the Hugo topic  

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hi James, no I will take the opportunity I think to down size some of the Naim boxes. I certainly feel there could be a different presentation when adjusting the power supply   as I prefer my NDX when acting as a SPDIF streamer with the Powerline attached.

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by likesmusic

Re DSD - JRiver will actually convert "on the fly" ie realtime, so there's no need to convert in advance. 

 

Tools > Options > ..DSP and Ouput Format > Output Encoding > DSD in DoP Format

 

and (depending on your device driver) either

 

Tools > Options > Audio > Bistreaming > DSD  (for WASAPI output)

 

or

 

Tools > Options > Audio > Device Settings > DSD Bitstream in DoP Format (for custom ASIO handlers).

 

Works a treat.

 

You might want to make this a separate  'zone' so you can leave your standard zone as is.

 

 

 

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by PhilP
Originally Posted by james n:

The NDX is a good source for the Devialet via S/PDIF but the Ethernet port (IMHO) is better - worth a try if you can.

 

Back to the Hugo topic  

James, sorry to be dim but do you mean I should try the Synology NAS ? Unfortunately I don't have one and am not sure how else I could utilise the Ethernet port. Thanks, Philip

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by Foxman50

Likesmusic, what is the difference between these formats. At the moment ive got mine set for kernel mode. How do you know which mode goes with which format and what in theory should give the best result.

 

Graeme

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by james n

Hi Simon - good idea. Looks like you have a pretty special little box there anyway. Can you get a USB interface for your PI server ?

 

Hi Phil - not sure how you store your music. If on computer (PC or Mac) then download the AIR app (if the demo 200 you have has the AIR card in it) and you can stream via the Ethernet port. 

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by PhilP
Originally Posted by james n:

Hi Simon - good idea. Looks like you have a pretty special little box there anyway. Can you get a USB interface for your PI server ?

 

Hi Phil - not sure how you store your music. If on computer (PC or Mac) then download the AIR app (if the demo 200 you have has the AIR card in it) and you can stream via the Ethernet port. 

James, my music is on a ReadyNas and I use MinimServer - works perfectly but the Devialet can't access it directly and I don't believe there is an AIR card in it. Will speak to the dealer tomorrow. Thanks! Philip

 

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by likesmusic
Originally Posted by Foxman50:

Likesmusic, what is the difference between these formats. At the moment ive got mine set for kernel mode. How do you know which mode goes with which format and what in theory should give the best result.

 

Graeme

JRivers advice (from their wiki) is to use ASIO if your DAC has a well behaved ASIO driver, otherwise use WASAPI. 

 

If you google "jriver audio output modes" you should get the details, but in case not here's the quote from their wiki:

 

"On OS X MC uses Core Audio to access your audio device, which provides bit-perfect playback, and requires no configuration. On Windows, Media Center will typically choose the best Output Mode available for your device, based on the drivers installed. If given the choice between multiple modes or drivers, choose the best output for your hardware in this order:

1) If your hardware has a native, well-behaved, ASIO driver, use ASIO.

2) Otherwise, on Windows Vista, Windows 7, or newer, use WASAPI exclusive.

3) Otherwise, use Kernel Streaming if it works.

4) If none of the above are possible, use DirectSound or WaveOut. Neither of these provide hardware direct output, so choose based on performance."

 

You probably also want to have JRiver bypass it's own volume control (although this is of very high quality)., and you might need to fiddle with buffer sizes to avoid glitches, depending on your DAC and pc.

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by likesmusic:
Originally Posted by Foxman50:

Likesmusic, what is the difference between these formats. At the moment ive got mine set for kernel mode. How do you know which mode goes with which format and what in theory should give the best result.

 

Graeme

JRivers advice (from their wiki) is to use ASIO if your DAC has a well behaved ASIO driver, otherwise use WASAPI. 

 

If you google "jriver audio output modes" you should get the details, but in case not here's the quote from their wiki:

 

"On OS X MC uses Core Audio to access your audio device, which provides bit-perfect playback, and requires no configuration. On Windows, Media Center will typically choose the best Output Mode available for your device, based on the drivers installed. If given the choice between multiple modes or drivers, choose the best output for your hardware in this order:

1) If your hardware has a native, well-behaved, ASIO driver, use ASIO.

2) Otherwise, on Windows Vista, Windows 7, or newer, use WASAPI exclusive.

3) Otherwise, use Kernel Streaming if it works.

4) If none of the above are possible, use DirectSound or WaveOut. Neither of these provide hardware direct output, so choose based on performance."

 

You probably also want to have JRiver bypass it's own volume control (although this is of very high quality)., and you might need to fiddle with buffer sizes to avoid glitches, depending on your DAC and pc.

So this would be the advised option as per your post above

 

Tools > Options > Audio > Device Settings > DSD Bitstream in DoP Format (for custom ASIO handlers).

 

Graeme

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by likesmusic
Originally Posted by Foxman50:
 

So this would be the advised option as per your post above

 

Tools > Options > Audio > Device Settings > DSD Bitstream in DoP Format (for custom ASIO handlers).

 

Graeme

If you have an ASIO handler for your DAC and it is selected as the Audio Device in MC (as I have) then that should work. While you're there, you should probably check the 24 bit option also ( for non DSD use) depending on your DAC.

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by cvrle

You may try different things, but I find that Kernel sounds the best with DSD.

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by likesmusic
Originally Posted by cvrle:

You may try different things, but I find that Kernel sounds the best with DSD.

With your DAC, not necessarily with all DACs .. what do the manufacturers suggest? DACs which use the Thesycon driver and the XMOS USB interface most probably suit ASIO because the Thesycon driver is ASIO and when you use it in JRiver you get all sorts of extra options to control buffer sizes etc. to help make streaming more stable. I just posted to point out JRivers own view on the best configuration for their software.

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by cvrle
Originally Posted by likesmusic:
Originally Posted by cvrle:

You may try different things, but I find that Kernel sounds the best with DSD.

With your DAC, not necessarily with all DACs .. what do the manufacturers suggest? DACs which use the Thesycon driver and the XMOS USB interface most probably suit ASIO because the Thesycon driver is ASIO and when you use it in JRiver you get all sorts of extra options to control buffer sizes etc. to help make streaming more stable. I just posted to point out JRivers own view on the best configuration for their software.

You are correct...we are talking here about Hugo, and my comment was related to it, and to my ears. That doesn't mean it'll work for everyone, I just wanted to share my experience. When I was using V1, JRiver was not my primary player, I used MQn, it gave me much better results. Things got changed with Hugo being able to play DSD, so JRIver is pretty good in that department. I'am still trying different things, but DSD is very intrigued at the moment.

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by cat345

I have tried converting PCM files of different resolutions to DSD with Jriver and while the sound is different to my ears I prefer the original files. What you do is adding an unnecessary conversion. 

Posted on: 26 May 2014 by cvrle
Originally Posted by cat345:

I have tried converting PCM files of different resolutions to DSD with Jriver and while the sound is different to my ears I prefer the original files. What you do is adding an unnecessary conversion. 

Are you talking about playing them on Hugo or some other DAC? If it's some other DAC, that would be out of equation. If you're talking about Hugo, that difference could be something that someone else likes more...not for everyone.