NDX and Chord Hugo

Posted by: Foxman50 on 18 April 2014

I have been contemplating adding a DAC to my NDX/XPS2 to see (or should that be hear) what it can bring to the party. And so thought it about time i made inroads into Having a few home demos. After looking around at products that are within my budget i came across the Chord Hugo DAC.

 

Although it is meant to be a portable headphone unit, it can be used as a full line level fixed DAC.

 

The dealer lent me a TQ black digital coax lead, which have twist grip plugs. This was required as the present batch of Hugo's have a case design fault that wont allow any decent cable to fit, soon to be rectified. Thankfully the TQ just manages to hang on to the coax port.

 

Once all connected and gone through the minimal setup procedure of the Hugo, what does the red LED mean again, i left it to warm up for half an hour.

 

Poured a beer and sat down for an evenings listening.

 

What was that, where did that come from, that's what that instrument is. OMG, as my little'n would say, Where is it getting all this detail from.

 

After spending last night and today with it, all i can say is that it has totally transformed my system from top to bottom. I never considered my NDX to be veiled or shut in, not even sure that's the correct terms. All i can say is its opened up the sound stage and space around instruments. Everything I've put through it has had my toes, feet and legs tapping away to the music.

 

Even putting the toe tapping, the resolution the clarity to one side, what its greatest achievement for me has been in making albums that I've had trouble listening too enjoyable now.

 

One added bonus is that it has made the XPS redundant. I cannot hear any difference with it in or out of the system.

 

While i thought a DAC may make a change in the degree of the jump from ND5 to NDX, i was not prepared for this. Anyone looking at adding a PSU to there NDX may want to check this unit out first.

 

For me this has to be the bargain of the year.

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Mr Frog

I once saw a guy wearing a T- shirt promoting a fictitious auto manufacturer called "WAN Cars"

 

It was available in bright orange and may suit someone you know 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by analogmusic

as long as all this hugo praise is drowned out and discredited with all these kind of remarks, keep on going.

 

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by KRM

Simon, that's exactly the point. It's your hobby, but it's their business. I would expect them to price based on how it sounds and what people will pay for it, not what it cost. The Hugo is priced at 10% of the NDS+555 but sounds better? Surely this the "economics of the madhouse"?

 

Keith

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by analogmusic
There is nothing wrong at all with the Hugo, nor with it's pricing.

What is wrong is the comparison the Naim components saying Hugo bests them all.
 
it's all a game of relatives, but not for some who respond with personal insults, when challenged.
 
So Hugo is the best, but if a Naim loyalist challenges this, he is called A88hole and W88ker.

Nice going guys, keep it coming.
 
 
 
 
Originally Posted by KRM:

In reply to Watt and Graeme,

 

The (apparent) fact that Robert Watts found a way to make a better DAC for less doesn't force Chord to charge less for it. I'm pretty sure that most Hi Fi manufacturers price based on what the market will bear, not cost plus. What margin do you imagine do you imagine Naim makes on a Hicap and is it the same as the one they will mke on a Muso? Perhaps it's happy conincidence that each amp costs about twice as much to make as the one below it in the hierarchy? 

 

Maybe the real game change is in Chord's gasp of economics?

 

Keith

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Mr Frog

If the cap fits ......

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by analogmusic

I think it is most, most disrespectful to keep on talking about the hugo, on a naim forum.

 

Please put that cap where it belongs.

 

 

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Keith, indeed obviously  I was speaking as a consumer, but yes if I was a producer in this space, I would be evaluating the situation, and also analysing to what extent if any it's affecting sales. If I was losing sales and market share, I would be busy developing an alternate to respond into the market.

of course this takes time, I'd be surprised if Naim are not very much aware of this situation, even if analysing the impact and I very much doubt they are ignoring it hoping it will go away... 

 

i have experienced almost similar performance, price erosion change in my line of work when certain new products come along, but I am not in consumer so changes take a little longer..but still can be very impactful. Nothing stands still in an innovating competitive market. 

 

Simon

Posted on: 06 July 2014 by KRM

Understood Simon, I think we agree.

 

They must have an aggesive growth strategy. They could (and presumably will)put it in a bigger box, and charge 2 or 3 times the cost anqd still undercut the competition. Why didn't they do that first, I wonder?

 

Keith

 

 

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by Foxman50:
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Hi, I don't think it's about the losses per se, but more the impedance mismatch caused by an adapter. An adapter is better clearly than nothing, but is not optimal. In this application the impact is going to minimal, but I can clearly hear the difference between using an adapter and a direct connection.  

Simon

Agreed re. adapter which I had to use briefly whilst DC1 BNC-RCA on order.

 

G

GraemeH

 

Are you saying you used the BNC to RCA adaptor on an RCA to RCA  coax digital cable, then got the BNC to RCA DC1 cable and the later was better.

 

Graeme

Yes - the adapter was on a cheapish purple QED Digital cable and the metal & plating was different between plug and adapter.  DC1 sounded much better.

 

G

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Keith, are you referring to Chord Electronics? If so, from what I have heard they were genuinely surprised by the success thus far, and had no idea it was going to be this popular. I suspect if they had anticipated this demand, they might have done as you say.. But the cat's out of the bag now 

Simon

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by analogmusic

If the Chord Hugo can even enhance the NDS.

 

The question is what is one to do who has purchased expensive digital sources.

 

I guess this would lead a a good supply of available NDS and other Linn Klimax on the market.

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
You talk as if 1400 GBP is small change.
 
I mean someone who has spend more than 3000 GBP on an NDX doesn't exactly want to use it as a pure streamer, into another battery operated DAC that costs 1400.
 
if the hugo costed 200 GBP then ok, but at 1400 GBP this is not chump change.
 
 
 
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
What experience is that?
 
Have you tried a PS555 head to head on the NDX and comapred that with a Chord Hugo on the NDX?
 
 
Originally Posted by GraemeH:

I'd say now having the option to add either a) A £6k 555PS to your naim streamer of choice to improve the SQ or b) Adding a £1.4K dac to (ime) further improve the SQ over and above the 555PS, a bit of a 'game changer'...

 

As I say, only speaking from experience of course.

 

G

 

Umm...yes. Otherwise why would I say such unless I couldn't help speculating on unlived experiences and/or I were a complete fool?

 

G

 

As I say, I speak from experience, as to do otherwise would render me an illogical fool.

 

G

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by analogmusic
 
I suspect it is some kind of angry feelings when some people compare the NDX to the Hugo, and then prefer, subjectively the Hugo.
 
Then they come back here to take out their anger.
 
 
 
Originally Posted by Char Wallah:
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
Exactly my point also. is this really such a revolution on sound, or just another flavour that everyone is going ga-ga over
 
I guess the new toy syndrome, before the next one comes along.
 
Originally Posted by Char Wallah:

So why the emphasis on Hugo if you have acknowledged that, as always, source is the key to good/better sound quality? Surely the Hugo's function in any Naim system is an auxillary one, not central.

 

 

I don't understand how source first is stated in a thread that goes on to suggest building a system around the Hugo, again this is back to front logic : febrile wanderings of an imagination that has been dazzled by the appearance of Hugo.  You wouldn't build a system around speakers. They say love is blind.

 

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by analogmusic
You don't have a large investment in Naim equipment at home, but many others do.
 
 
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
You talk as if 1400 GBP is small change.
 
I mean someone who has spend more than 3000 GBP on an NDX doesn't exactly want to use it as a pure streamer, into another battery operated DAC that costs 1400.
 
if the hugo costed 200 GBP then ok, but at 1400 GBP this is not chump change.
 
 
 
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
What experience is that?
 
Have you tried a PS555 head to head on the NDX and comapred that with a Chord Hugo on the NDX?
 
 
Originally Posted by GraemeH:

I'd say now having the option to add either a) A £6k 555PS to your naim streamer of choice to improve the SQ or b) Adding a £1.4K dac to (ime) further improve the SQ over and above the 555PS, a bit of a 'game changer'...

 

As I say, only speaking from experience of course.

 

G

 

Umm...yes. Otherwise why would I say such unless I couldn't help speculating on unlived experiences and/or I were a complete fool?

 

G

 

As I say, I speak from experience, as to do otherwise would render me an illogical fool.

 

G

 

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by hafler3o
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

I think it is most, most disrespectful to keep on talking about the hugo, on a naim forum.

Then stop talking and start listening (to a Hugo) then offer your opinion.

You wake up and restate yesterdays tropes and try to inflame the thread yet again.

You do sound so desperate, almost to the point of obsession now.

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by analogmusic
We should rename this thread the Naim Basher thread.
 
Originally Posted by Char Wallah:

Not to mention CD555's 

 

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by joerand
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
We should rename this thread the Naim Basher thread.
I am reminded here of a song by Lil Wayne:Get A Life
 
 
Originally Posted by analogmusic:

I think it is most, most disrespectful to keep on talking about the hugo, on a naim forum.

Then, for Christ's sake, quit talking about it and take a freaking hint. And on the topic of respect, get some.

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by analogmusic
It's a good opportunity for people who wanted to experience CD555, NDS and NDAC
 
I think time to start looking at the famous auction side.
 
I always wanted an NDS, hopefully many on the market now 
 
 
 
Originally Posted by Char Wallah:

Not to mention CD555's 

 

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by Foxman50

Guys, and girls if any are present, could we stop with the verbal abuse to others on this thread. Take the P**S and lets have some banter by all means, but we seem to be going down the wrong road into the playground if you ask me.

 

My thoughts

 

Graeme

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
You talk as if 1400 GBP is small change.
 
I mean someone who has spend more than 3000 GBP on an NDX doesn't exactly want to use it as a pure streamer, into another battery operated DAC that costs 1400.
 
if the hugo costed 200 GBP then ok, but at 1400 GBP this is not chump change.
 
 
 
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by analogmusic:
What experience is that?
 
Have you tried a PS555 head to head on the NDX and comapred that with a Chord Hugo on the NDX?
 
 
Originally Posted by GraemeH:

I'd say now having the option to add either a) A £6k 555PS to your naim streamer of choice to improve the SQ or b) Adding a £1.4K dac to (ime) further improve the SQ over and above the 555PS, a bit of a 'game changer'...

 

As I say, only speaking from experience of course.

 

G

 

Umm...yes. Otherwise why would I say such unless I couldn't help speculating on unlived experiences and/or I were a complete fool?

 

G

 

Analog

 

Isn't this the beauty of Naim streamers that they are upgradable. You can add a PSU, you can add a DAC. As far as i am aware Naim do not stipulate that it has to be their PSU or DAC you use to upgrade with.

 

No now i don't want to use a £3K+ NDX as a streamer only, but when i only had the NDX then that is exactly what i wanted. This is Naim's Philosophy is it not.

 

Graeme

Posted on: 07 July 2014 by GraemeH

Analogue,

 

You are now making knowingly baseless statements designed purely to cause irritation (I have, and continue to, invest heavily in naim over the years).

 

Please stop and allow those of us using a complementary product the space to discuss it as we, and naim, see fit.

 

Thank you,

 

G