NDX and Chord Hugo
Posted by: Foxman50 on 18 April 2014
I have been contemplating adding a DAC to my NDX/XPS2 to see (or should that be hear) what it can bring to the party. And so thought it about time i made inroads into Having a few home demos. After looking around at products that are within my budget i came across the Chord Hugo DAC.
Although it is meant to be a portable headphone unit, it can be used as a full line level fixed DAC.
The dealer lent me a TQ black digital coax lead, which have twist grip plugs. This was required as the present batch of Hugo's have a case design fault that wont allow any decent cable to fit, soon to be rectified. Thankfully the TQ just manages to hang on to the coax port.
Once all connected and gone through the minimal setup procedure of the Hugo, what does the red LED mean again, i left it to warm up for half an hour.
Poured a beer and sat down for an evenings listening.
What was that, where did that come from, that's what that instrument is. OMG, as my little'n would say, Where is it getting all this detail from.
After spending last night and today with it, all i can say is that it has totally transformed my system from top to bottom. I never considered my NDX to be veiled or shut in, not even sure that's the correct terms. All i can say is its opened up the sound stage and space around instruments. Everything I've put through it has had my toes, feet and legs tapping away to the music.
Even putting the toe tapping, the resolution the clarity to one side, what its greatest achievement for me has been in making albums that I've had trouble listening too enjoyable now.
One added bonus is that it has made the XPS redundant. I cannot hear any difference with it in or out of the system.
While i thought a DAC may make a change in the degree of the jump from ND5 to NDX, i was not prepared for this. Anyone looking at adding a PSU to there NDX may want to check this unit out first.
For me this has to be the bargain of the year.
DSP for correction is fine, but I cant help feeling by the very nature of the arithmetic processes involved one will lose info and create artefacts. Now in environments where the impact of this is less than the benefits gained such as in car entertainment or sound bar processing then great - but I am sure it will get in the way in a good two channel system that is not having to work in too much of a compromised environment.
As good as the Naim Bentley audio system is - I wouldn't call it particularly natural when I have listened to it -but it does excel at remaining communicative in diverse conditions.
Simon
DSP for correction is fine, but I cant help feeling by the very nature of the arithmetic processes involved one will lose info and create artefacts. Now in environments where the impact of this is less than the benefits gained such as in car entertainment or sound bar processing then great - but I am sure it will get in the way in a good two channel system that is not having to work in too much of a compromised environment.
Yes, that's what I used to believe too Simon. I also used to consider my room to be pretty benign acoustically, so there was nothing to correct. A friend kindly offered to set up the room correction system on my system and despite my initial scepticism and after several days of thorough evaluation I found I really didn't want to be without it. I've subsequently set up the system (the software license allows two implementations) in our second home, a completely different environment and one I also considered to not be at all compromised, yet discovered similar benefits.
Undoubtedly some form of compromise has to be made but I really cannot detect what that might be. Try it...
Apart from FPGA and DSP, the simple high power discrete OP stage could also be responsible for it's overall sound quality. Rob Watts says " You will get much better transparency and musicality by avoiding pre-amps of any nature". Is this due to it's excellent power supply arrangement ? A lot of savings can be made if you can bypass a preamplifier.
Tony, I have experimented (or more accurately dabbled) with various DSP algorithms, specifically with headphones.. and although I can hear what they are doing (to stop sounds appearing in your head etc) I do prefer it pass through, it just seems more natural and I seem to prefer to let my brain make the adjustments which it is best able to.. our own signal processing is hugely more advanced that any current artificial signal processing, and there is a view that when you try and trick your own audio processing with artificial processing after a while in some situations although initially impressive, you can tire of the sound... I understand that the science of natural audio processing is an evolving one and there is much to still discover. It is in this space perhaps as we better get an understanding of how we listen and decode sound, we will be able to make better machines to reproduce sound. That will be the future of HiFi. I think DSP is but a drop in the ocean in this evolving fascinating space.
But it's great to have the choice.
Simon
So, the DC1 BNC to RCA is now in place with a Chord Anthem 2 RCA to DIN to the CD input of the SN2.
I've switched the Hugo to ersatz 'volume bypass' which still gives me between 9&10 o'clock for loudish listening.
Listening to GRRR! Hires which is a great test as the tracks go from early '60s recordings through to 2000s and I know the music really well.
I've got as far as 'Have You Seen Your Mother Baby' and, well, this little box of magic is completely convincing on all fronts; scale, prat, timbres, timing, transparency and, ultimately, musicality. It is a hugely enjoyable grin inducing source and I love it!
'Lets Spend The Night Together'...I think I will do just that!
G
I use a DSP software, and would not listen to music without it.
In fact it's that good that the combination of DAC V1 on the hardware side, and the DSP on the software side rivals my Turntable on some albums.
Lets just say that when my Turntable was put in another room for a while and disconnected, I didn't miss it one bit.
And I am a analog music guy, never liked digital of any kind and only the NDS/555 was the only digital source I found to my liking.
I will acquire one someday, but at the moment my set up gives me plenty of fun.
Hence my thoughts that DSP is really the way forward. Much cheaper than NDS/555 or Linn Klimax
So, the DC1 BNC to RCA is now in place with a Chord Anthem 2 RCA to DIN to the CD input of the SN2.
I've switched the Hugo to ersatz 'volume bypass' which still gives me between 9&10 o'clock for loudish listening.
Listening to GRRR! Hires which is a great test as the tracks go from early '60s recordings through to 2000s and I know the music really well.
I've got as far as 'Have You Seen Your Mother Baby' and, well, this little box of magic is completely convincing on all fronts; scale, prat, timbres, timing, transparency and, ultimately, musicality. It is a hugely enjoyable grin inducing source and I love it!
'Lets Spend The Night Together'...I think I will do just that!
G
Glad you are enjoying your little birthday present. Its a wonderful device.
Graeme
I use a DSP software, and would not listen to music without it.
In fact it's that good that the combination of DAC V1 on the hardware side, and the DSP on the software side rivals my Turntable on some albums.
Lets just say that when my Turntable was put in another room for a while and disconnected, I didn't miss it one bit.
And I am a analog music guy, never liked digital of any kind and only the NDS/555 was the only digital source I found to my liking.
I will acquire one someday, but at the moment my set up gives me plenty of fun.
Hence my thoughts that DSP is really the way forward. Much cheaper than NDS/555 or Linn Klimax
Analogue
What DSP software do you use. I'm intrigued to try some. Is it additional to the music software or built in.
Graeme
So, the DC1 BNC to RCA is now in place with a Chord Anthem 2 RCA to DIN to the CD input of the SN2.
I've switched the Hugo to ersatz 'volume bypass' which still gives me between 9&10 o'clock for loudish listening.
Listening to GRRR! Hires which is a great test as the tracks go from early '60s recordings through to 2000s and I know the music really well.
I've got as far as 'Have You Seen Your Mother Baby' and, well, this little box of magic is completely convincing on all fronts; scale, prat, timbres, timing, transparency and, ultimately, musicality. It is a hugely enjoyable grin inducing source and I love it!
'Lets Spend The Night Together'...I think I will do just that!
G
Glad you are enjoying your little birthday present. Its a wonderful device.
Graeme
Thanks Graeme
The DC1 made an appreciable difference in terms of clarity, spread & separation. No digital edge at all now - just brilliant!
Graeme
I use a DSP software, and would not listen to music without it.
In fact it's that good that the combination of DAC V1 on the hardware side, and the DSP on the software side rivals my Turntable on some albums.
Lets just say that when my Turntable was put in another room for a while and disconnected, I didn't miss it one bit.
And I am a analog music guy, never liked digital of any kind and only the NDS/555 was the only digital source I found to my liking.
I will acquire one someday, but at the moment my set up gives me plenty of fun.
Hence my thoughts that DSP is really the way forward. Much cheaper than NDS/555 or Linn Klimax
Analogue
What DSP software do you use. I'm intrigued to try some. Is it additional to the music software or built in.
Graeme
Burwen Bobcat - I'd seen that software mentioned before and from the look of the website, it looked like some sort of scam. Does it work ?
from the look of the website, it looked like some sort of scam. Does it work ?
My thoughts exactly, on both counts. Some of it I can't read on an iPad as the lines double up ?
from the look of the website, it looked like some sort of scam. Does it work ?
My thoughts exactly, on both counts. Some of it I can't read on an iPad as the lines double up ?
same on my netbook, but maybe the software works. May try it. Amara has a free trial but is way too expensive, well for me. But then again if it really makes that much of a difference.
Graeme
Not a scam. Really does work.
I will repeat, not a scam.
Yes it is a plugin for Windows Media player, but there is no way I would ever part with it, or listen to music without it. And as I said, I don't miss my turntable at all and in fact lately I have been listening to this with DAC V1 almost 99 % of the time compared to the Turntable.
Anyway use whatever DSP that you like. Many on the market.
All I am saying is that DSP is the next level of innovation and gives much better bang for the buck.
Also it will not turn a very poor recording into something can sounds like an LP12.
It all depends on the quality of the source recording.
What is does do is add some ambiance(air and space) around the instruments and voices so it's a lot gentler on the ears, and easier to listen to. It also makes recordings sound more musical.
But as I said, it will not make any very poor recording into something that sounds like LP12.
However to be fair, even NDS/555 is not capable of this either.
I have done A/B comparison with say Calvin Harriss 18 months album, and I would say with the software played through DAC V1 against the Vinyl on turntable, the digital playback sounds better to me, and play that one in preference to the vinyl. The digital doesn't always win, and that is always because the A/D conversion on CD is quite bad to begin with.
I know some people here have added a second PS 555 to NDS to hear more wider stereo image or hear voices more clearly, hence people do pay lots of money to hear more clearly into recording.
What is does do is add some ambiance(air and space) around the instruments and voices so it's a lot gentler on the ears, and easier to listen to. It also makes recordings sound more musical.
Analogue
I know we have had plenty of banter about Hugo but if you value this, i really suggest you try to get a demo of Hugo. Seriously even as a stop gap till you can get hold of your desired Naim source.
graeme
Hi Graeme
I will try the Hugo one day when it's possible 
If the DSP software is not too expensive and I can run it then I would be very interested to try It. In creating what I call a Digital Juke Box, i wanted it to sound similar to my LP12 which remains my favourite source. If i can get some DSP software to tip the balance then it would be very welcome. It would need to be easy to set up: so any help you can give would be appreciated.
Many thanks, Wat
Dear Mr Wat,
Should you decide to try Amarra with iRC (and I highly recommend you do) I'd be happy to help you set it up. It's actually quite straightforward and the software guides you through the process very nicely.
In terms of cost, well, it's about the same as a Powerline (but you do need a USB microphone, which if you're lucky you can borrow). The improvement you get makes the cost pretty reasonable, and you can get a thirty-day free trial period. Amarra seem to offer special deals on the software when you register for the trial, reducing the cost further.
I use a DSP software, and would not listen to music without it.
In fact it's that good that the combination of DAC V1 on the hardware side, and the DSP on the software side rivals my Turntable on some albums.
Lets just say that when my Turntable was put in another room for a while and disconnected, I didn't miss it one bit.
And I am a analog music guy, never liked digital of any kind and only the NDS/555 was the only digital source I found to my liking.
I will acquire one someday, but at the moment my set up gives me plenty of fun.
Hence my thoughts that DSP is really the way forward. Much cheaper than NDS/555 or Linn Klimax
Analogue
What DSP software do you use. I'm intrigued to try some. Is it additional to the music software or built in.
Graeme
+1
If the DSP software is not too expensive and I can run it then I would be very interested to try It. In creating what I call a Digital Juke Box, i wanted it to sound similar to my LP12 which remains my favourite source. If i can get some DSP software to tip the balance then it would be very welcome. It would need to be easy to set up: so any help you can give would be appreciated.
i have a few CDs that sound bad on whatever they are played on even though the music content is superb - i think the original mastering was poor. I have being thinking about Using iZotope RC or Sound-soap to try to improve them, but if I can do this with your DSP software then that would be a bonus.
Many thanks, Wat
I know some people here have added a second PS 555 to NDS to hear more wider stereo image or hear voices more clearly, hence people do pay lots of money to hear more clearly into recording.
Putting a second 555PS on the NDX does considerably more. In my system at least, width, height and depth of stereo image is mostly governed by where and how I place the speakers. The second 555PS option is a fundamental shift with no loss along the way. The next thing I am looking forward to is how DSP shaping develops and who gets it right.
Harry, I think you mean NDS.
Yes.
I recommend that people who are interested in Hugo read post 3023 in the Head Fi thread.
Watts believes that Red Book, and not higher resolution file sources (be the PCM or DSD) will sound better through Hugo. Hugo does not filter out high frequency noise above 22.05kHz (there's no room left to do so on the FPGA), so intermodulation noise can be an issue. He points out that the main advantage of higher resolution is better timing. But the number of taps in Hugo gives it a large advantage with reconstructing the timing (both phase and amplitude) of the Red Book input, resulting in a very accurate analog signal!
As I mentioned yesterday in my post to Watt, some people appear to prefer a brighter, more edgy sound, and Watts suggests this will be the case with high resolution PCM and DSD. Counter-intuitive to me, but certainly good to know.
ATB.
Hook
PS - Not sure, but I would think that improved performance with high resolution sources might be a way forward with the Chordette Qute update...or maybe that waits for the QBD76 update. Personally, I am more concerned with making the best from Red Book files and streams.
I'm agreeing with Mr Watts here. Red-Book sounds astonishingly good through Hugo.
The best I've heard.
G
What about HiRes?
I had a comic delivered this morning with a Hugo test and a column devoted to it. Everybody who has heard one seems to be singing its praises. Have they hit on something magical, as can sometimes happen, or is it going to be surpassed next month or next year? It's a fast moving sector,that's for sure. And of course this applies to everything in said sector. Will it ever stop?