NDX and Chord Hugo

Clocked?  More like Sun-dialled I would say.

I ain't gonna respond to the rest of this sentence because I am sure you knew what I meant Wat, or is that 'Wat I meant what'?

Richard

Would just like to say thank you for putting the thread back up 

Maybe those that are more interested about the inner workings, rather than the SQ, could start a new thread.

While to some extent im interested, most of the comments are wY over my head and others im sure. Oh ok just me

Graeme

+1

Or move over to headfi where you can discuss with the designer who knows how it works and why.

You can tell him directly where he is going into the wrong.

The Hugo's bass was quite a revelation for me. I've always found my 8" two-way speakers a bit generous in that area, but with the Hugo, bass cleaned up markedly and gained in extension. Same phenomenon with my AKG 501 headphones, which are normally bass-light.

Regarding headphones, I've never been a great fan, but the Hugo is changing my view, showing me that headphone listening can be as satisfying as listening on speakers.

Jan

+ 1 more to the suggestion that the techie speculation gets its own thread.

Keith

Right I can now confirm that I experienced sample variation on the Hugo. I demo'd a Hugo and I loved it - I bought one - with a very close or if not the next serial no.. it was good but never quite excelled like the demo one. I have now swapped back to the demo and bliss.. interestingly I ended up putting more hours on the new Hugo than the demo one. What was the difference - well it was if the new Hugo was more like a conventional DAC - it just never seem to quite develop that feeling of space, air, textures and overtones/harmonics that I initially fell in love with - but all is now restored. That is the value of buying through a great dealer.

Simon 

Simon

Did you get a chance to compare them back to back. Your lucky to get a chance to try the original one. Not very good if there is an actual inconsistency between the units being sent out. Will it be going back to see if it has a fault.

Graeme

It is more than a bit suspicious that when there is a massive primary claim about a product people become very concerned about others discussing it. Presumably these controlling few are either (un)declared trade members who want a simple eulogy to sell more product or owners who need affirmation from others for their choices.

The claim in question is as follows:

"the brain samples sound in real time every 4 micro-seconds, whereas CD refreshes its 'frames' every 22 micro-seconds. It's CD's inability to work as fast as the brain that causes its problems in the time domain, why it doesn't sound natural. And the unique design of the Hugo DAC addresses precisely this failing."

Now you've done it.  Good ones and not so good ones. This will spin people out.

Well I speak it how I find it - and yes I am a fussy old codger - but that's how it is. I suspect there is not a fault on the returned Hugo - it might be at the edge of tolerance - and perhaps if I had not heard the demo version in the first place I would have been happy - its all relative. However I had also experienced sample variation  once with a Naim 250.2 amp as well - and I don't think there was a 'fault' on the returned one.

I guess at this level slight discrepancies can have an effect if it impacts the sweet spot for you.

Simon

Simon

Marky

are you really concerned by this. When you purchase a piece of hifi equipment do you only do so if you agree and understand all the blurb written about it or do you let your ears decide.

im not trying to be confrontational to you, just find your stance very strange. To me it is anyway.

ive never taken any notice of blurb or other people, i drive a skoda for goodness sake. Have done for quite a few years now. To me what counts is what i think.

Graeme

And why are you afraid to discuss these doubts with the designer of the product instead of throwing doubts on a general forum where everybody will respond with general theoretical reponses which will never satify you regarding your doubts. There is a unique opportunity to discuss directly with the designer.

go to the source of the actual knowledge and get your doubts confirmed or squashed.

that's why I think you don't really want to know how it truely works, you are 'discussing' for the sake of 'discussing'.

I will answer your question Graeme in the good spirit in which I trust it was intended. What I will say though is I am unclear what justification you have to question others freedom to ask questions or seek to silence debate. Particularly as I am simply questioning some claims around the product. One of the main purposes of the forum. Or at least it used to be before the loony contingent took over. I would add that by extolling these features and benefits people have brought the discussion of them upon myself.

As far as your question goes...with hi-fi, I have always let my ears decide. However, there are a sea of products and accompanying BS out there. Where grand claims come along, it is useful to test the logic to see if they stand up before deciding whether to bother with a demo.

In the case of this example, the claims have been extravagant and there seems to be some shilling so it seems quite reasonable to test them. Who knows, it may be useful to someone to realise that claims of perfection etc are not really proven and may in fact have no basis whatsoever. I hope this helps explain my view. If you don't like any debate, please use the ignore button.

Me too - although the main interest I've found in this thread is sociological.

Watching the next great new idea reach critical acceptance is as fascinating as observing a murmuration of starlings deciding where to kip for the night, a dog settling in a bed or a group of outraged parents building up the momentum to lynch a paediatrician.

There are positives and negatives.

Aleg, against my better judgement I will respond to you one last time. You don't contribute anything to this thread other than intervening to question people. If you have some knowledge on the subject, we would all love to hear it. However, when asked to supply this yesterday, you came up with excuses then disappeared. If everyone chose to contribute as you do, there would be no forum. Just a passive readership of empty space.

Regarding joining other forums, I am just not interested. As there are so many falling over themselves to quote this and that then really they should back it up. It is not for me to back up their posts. I am not the one making claims. Simple enough?

You've gotta be joking.  The trend has got progressively worse I feel with some ebbs and flows along the way. A lot of members whose opinions were valued have left.

Anyway Graeme, enjoy the Hugo. I hope for some response including on the 4 micro-seconds claim vs what is out there from Yamaha, Siemens and beyond. Also what use any of this is given the source material and the smooth analogue sine waves which are output anyway. I hope you may endure this or at least turn a blind eye to it. Thanks for your patience.

Methinks Adam did that on porpose Steve. 

Or there is something genuinely amiss - in general, it could be something as small as a single passive component that is "off", or a bad hand-soldered joint, etc. The only way to know (when situations such as this come up) is to expand the sample size (i.e., listen to another one), which is, as you said, a very good reason for purchasing through an authorized retailer.

It also gives the manufacturer the opportunity to address the issue (clearly, no one wishes to make two tiers of products, or to create any sort of doubt in the marketplace as to the repeatability of one's manufacturing capabilities) through known channels; in the event that there is a sub-supplier issue, this can be addressed quickly (or, in the worst case scenario, the supplier can change altogether). If it's a manufacturing process issue - it can be resolved quickly AND perhaps the original (faulty) unit can be restored to the same degree of performance (confirming the fault and resolution).

This also separates the men from the boys–if a manufacturer is unwilling to resolve the issue or simply leaves it to random chance, well–clearly they're not interested in replicating the same experience from product instance to product instance, which (at the $ / £ / € levels we're talking here) is a fairly significant issue.

This goes, of course, for portable DACs as much as it does power amplifiers, tonearms, or loudspeakers, and it happens much more often than you think!

I read an interview with Paul Stevens in which he said that anyone can make a great amp on their kitchen table - the difficult bit is to make thousands of them that all sound equally great.

...or something like that.

Keith

Well, you'd know if you made a mistake because it wouldn't sound good.

i've had experience of Naim products being "off", as David rightly points out it's a common phenomenon and unavoidable with such items.