NDX and Chord Hugo

Posted by: Foxman50 on 18 April 2014

I have been contemplating adding a DAC to my NDX/XPS2 to see (or should that be hear) what it can bring to the party. And so thought it about time i made inroads into Having a few home demos. After looking around at products that are within my budget i came across the Chord Hugo DAC.

Although it is meant to be a portable headphone unit, it can be used as a full line level fixed DAC.

The dealer lent me a TQ black digital coax lead, which have twist grip plugs. This was required as the present batch of Hugo's have a case design fault that wont allow any decent cable to fit, soon to be rectified. Thankfully the TQ just manages to hang on to the coax port.

Once all connected and gone through the minimal setup procedure of the Hugo, what does the red LED mean again, i left it to warm up for half an hour.

Poured a beer and sat down for an evenings listening.

What was that, where did that come from, that's what that instrument is. OMG, as my little'n would say, Where is it getting all this detail from.

After spending last night and today with it, all i can say is that it has totally transformed my system from top to bottom. I never considered my NDX to be veiled or shut in, not even sure that's the correct terms. All i can say is its opened up the sound stage and space around instruments. Everything I've put through it has had my toes, feet and legs tapping away to the music.

Even putting the toe tapping, the resolution the clarity to one side, what its greatest achievement for me has been in making albums that I've had trouble listening too enjoyable now.

One added bonus is that it has made the XPS redundant. I cannot hear any difference with it in or out of the system.

While i thought a DAC may make a change in the degree of the jump from ND5 to NDX, i was not prepared for this. Anyone looking at adding a PSU to there NDX may want to check this unit out first.

For me this has to be the bargain of the year.

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

.... But I am trying to turn my back on evil pursuits.. anyone for tennis?

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by KRM

Adam is right, as usual. I will be waiting for "a more convent iteration of the second coming" before I jump.

Keith

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Adam Meredith

Originally Posted by KRM:

Adam is right, as usual. I will be waiting for "a more convent iteration of the second coming" before I jump.

Nun but the brave.

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Adam Meredith

Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

... anyone for tennis?

My friends call me Alice, but I'll take a dare.

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Sorry Alice, perhaps another time, I'm playing Penney now..

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Steve J

Originally Posted by Adam Meredith:

Originally Posted by Big Bill:

Originally Posted by Adam Meredith:

.... an old bull and a young bull.

..... young bull ..... the young bull said...

The old bull pondered ...

Adam you sound like a man of great wisdom.

... or full of bull.

.... and old jokes.

With any computer based technology there is always going to be something better around the corner. Naim's DAC and streaming technology is falling behind and is very expensive. It really should come as no surprise that a small portable DAC can sound better and if people are prepared to wait then maybe even Naim will come up with something better. I'm in the market for a DAC based system now and will be auditioning a shortlist of three. I will spend my hard earned on whichever sounds best, also taking into consideration relative cost.

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Big Bill

Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

Sorry Alice, perhaps another time, I'm playing Penney now..

Certainly ruffled a few feathers. I used to be one of the moderators on a forum and that particular system gave you the MAC of each post. So you could be fairly sure when people were doubling up. I guess the system used by NAIM here gives you the same sort of info,so our lovely site admin will know.

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by KRM

Naim will find a way to beat the Hugo and I have no doubt that their solution will need a huge expensive power supply.

Keith

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by George J

Dear Keith,

Not necessarily. It may be a second gen, DAC V1, though the first generation seems exceptional to me already!

No extra PS needed either.

ATTB from George

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by lovethatsound

Rob Watts head fi post 5338
Yes I have said many times that I prefer optical.
I have not done this listening test for many years-I just use optical always and that's that-I thought I would re-do the listening test.In this case, whilst listening between optical and coaxial, I disconnected the input as well as switched the source button.
Optical was indeed as I listened before-it is noticeably warmer, smoother, with better timbre variations on individual instruments and better instrument separation. Now it also sounds softer, as it is less hard and on a superficial basis is less impressive-the hardness can easily be confused with more detail resolution and impact.But it's a lot more natural.
Now optical gets a lot of bad press-more jitter etc.In the case of the Hugo, the jitter levels does not matter, as everything gets re-timed against a low jitter clock, so source jitter is completely removed. Incidentally, the AP test equipment actually measures lower jitter levels on optical than coaxial inputs, so the jitter story is, in this instance, false.
The benefits of optical is that it isolates the Hugo from the source's ground iinjected RF noise.Now anybody reading my posts will say that I am a bit of a timing freak, but I am also a noise floor modulation freak too.RF nosie, when it is mixed inside the active analogue electronics, creates inter-modulation distortion which results in the nosie floor moving up and down with the analogue signal. I have measured this effect, so I know it is real, and reducing RF nosie results in measurable reduction in nosie floor modulation.Also I have seen on digital simulation extremely small levels of nosie floor modulation, which when removed produces a very audible effect. So the ear/brain is somehow extremely sensitive to this problem.
So how does nosie floor modulation account for the observed sound quality changes? Firstly, better instrument separation.Now image two instruments playing in a ssystem that has noise floor modulation.You will get noise floor modulation that is a sum of both instruments. Now when the brain has to separate the sounds out, it has now 3 signals to worry about-the two instruments, plus the noise floor modulation which is a combination of both instruments. This confuses the brains processing to be able to tell the instruments apart, and hence degrades the brain's perception of the instruments as being separate entities, because you have noise singing along as a combination of the two instruments. This confusion also makes it difficult for the brain, which then will give you listening fatigue.
How does it explain timbre variations? Now imagine listening to one instrument-a saxophone-something rich and smooth sounding.Now noise floor modulation is white noise pumping up and down with the signal level-it has the timbre of hiss, that is very bright sounding. Now add some noise floor modulation, and you are mixing into the sound of the sax something that sounds quite bright. The brain can't tell the difference between the sax, and the noise floor modulation which is proportionate to the sax signal level. So it lumps the timbre together, the rich sound of the sax becomes brighter and less like a sax.We actually end up with all instruments sounding bright, so timbre variations are suppressed.
How does it explain it sounding softer? Well, if you have noise floor modulation, you get more noise with the music peaks, and this often occurs at the initial starting transient-so you get a burst of noise on peak transients, which artificially enhances the sound-its the MSG of sound quality.
Many people have reported Hugo as having wide timbre variations-being able to distinguish different timbres on different instruments and noise floor modulation (or rather lack thereof) is one big reason for this. In case of Hugo, I have been working hard in the digital and analogue parts on not merely trying to reduce noise floor modulation but to eliminate all sources of it.
My final point is this-be very careful about listening tests, and, in my view, the goal is to enjoy music, not to think the sound quality os impressive. At the end of the day, go for the more musical sound-testing for mmusicality takes a lot longer, but it is the ultimate goal.
ROB

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by lovethatsound

Where's my last post gone? It took me ages 2 do that

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Brilliant

My Hugo notes after 85 hrs or so play time:

via optical - more resolution in every way, instrument def, low level sounds, separation, but gentle to the point of boring (tend to nod off)

via coax - less resolution in every way, but more communicative, musically (tend to stay awake)

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Hi, I have put a ferrite choke around my Naim DC1 lead between my NDX and Hugo.. It makes a *slightly* smoother, richer sound and I prefer it currently to anything else either via USB or optical.. but I have not tried DoP yet. I also put a ferrite choke around the PSU lead, but not really convinced there is a difference with that one.

[wow listening to Bashin' by Jimmy Smith as I type on this iPad , the Hammond and brass is second to none.. ]

Simon

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Brilliant

Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

[wow listening to Bashin' by Jimmy Smith as I type on this iPad , the Hammond and brass is second to none.. ]

Simon

good to know - thanks

I aim to do the 100 hrs (the Chord people here are recommending) and then I will try to fine tune the interconnections, including what you have done. When I am 'testing' I prefer to unplug the PSU lead (not that I think it makes any difference, but one less noise source?).

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Brilliant

currently (all 44.1/16):

Art Pepper - Darn that Dream (RealTime)

Lightnin' Hopkins - Texas Blues (Arhoole)

Luther Allison - Hand Me Down My Moonshine (Ruf Records)

Aretha Franklin - Spirit In The Dark (Atlantic)

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by George J

Originally Posted by Char Wallah:

I notice that you haven't mentioned what music you have been listening to, in these posts, none of you have. That seems a bit sus to me. I wouldn't raise this, however none of you post in the What Are You Listening to section....so for all I know you may be getting very excited over The Carpenters or Lionel Richie albums, instead of Aerosmith or Kiss for example.

I post in the What Are You Listening To thread, and I have posted in this thread.

So not quite right, Mr Char!

ATB from George

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Brilliant

^If that is a question to me I am sorry I have no answer!

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Aleg

Originally Posted by Char Wallah:

Originally Posted by Brilliant:

currently (all 44.1/16):

Art Pepper - Darn that Dream (RealTime)

Lightnin' Hopkins - Texas Blues (Arhoole)

Luther Allison - Hand Me Down My Moonshine (Puf Records)

Aretha Franklin - Spirit In The Dark (Atlantic)

Thanks, so that's quite light, easy listening stuff, compared to Motorhead or Killing Joke ?

IMHO one cannot judge quality replay and DAC qualities, with anything else but acoustical music.

Hiding behind the couch now :-), but I do mean it.

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by George J

But you need not hide: You are correct.

ATB from George

PS: I did not expect Char to reply to my point and he has not!

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Brilliant

Originally Posted by Aleg:

Originally Posted by Char Wallah:

Originally Posted by Brilliant:

currently (all 44.1/16):

Art Pepper - Darn that Dream (RealTime)

Lightnin' Hopkins - Texas Blues (Arhoole)

Luther Allison - Hand Me Down My Moonshine (Puf Records)

Aretha Franklin - Spirit In The Dark (Atlantic)

Thanks, so that's quite light, easy listening stuff, compared to Motorhead or Killing Joke ?

IMHO one cannot judge quality replay and DAC qualities, with anything else but acoustical music.

Hiding behind the couch now :-), but I do mean it.

Just trying to enjoy music to my max possible - not aiming to judge anything as such, but to share- for those who might be interested

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by GraemeH

Originally Posted by Char Wallah:

... however none of you post in the What Are You Listening to section....so for all I know you may be getting very excited over The Carpenters or Lionel Richie albums, instead of Aerosmith or Kiss for example.

10 posts in the past few days in that section. A very wide range too...do keep up

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by Big Bill

Originally Posted by Char Wallah:

That ruffled a few feathers Char Wallah, they don't like it up 'em.

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by George J

Graeme,

Perhaps Char is more interested in point scoring than music, but simply is not that interested in music himself.

Quite a possibility given his polemic style ...

ATB from Georhge

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by George J

Originally Posted by Wat:

Originally Posted by Char Wallah:

Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:

[wow listening to Bashin' by Jimmy Smith as I type on this iPad , the Hammond and brass is second to none.. ]

Simon

Linguaphone Icelandic Course sounds great - much better than Aerosmith or Kiss: what will you suggest next Motley Crue? Do you really like that stuff? Oh well.

I used to post in Music Room, but so few people commented I assumed nobody was interested. The Moody Blues In Search of A Lost Chord and Drum by Hugo Largo if you are intrigued.

No one comments on my listening, but I guess there could be more than one reason for that. Keep posting. I am sure that people are actually interested!

ATB from George

Posted on: 22 June 2014 by GraemeH

I imagine you get most of your listening done when school's out in that case.