NDX and Chord Hugo
Posted by: Foxman50 on 18 April 2014
I have been contemplating adding a DAC to my NDX/XPS2 to see (or should that be hear) what it can bring to the party. And so thought it about time i made inroads into Having a few home demos. After looking around at products that are within my budget i came across the Chord Hugo DAC.
Although it is meant to be a portable headphone unit, it can be used as a full line level fixed DAC.
The dealer lent me a TQ black digital coax lead, which have twist grip plugs. This was required as the present batch of Hugo's have a case design fault that wont allow any decent cable to fit, soon to be rectified. Thankfully the TQ just manages to hang on to the coax port.
Once all connected and gone through the minimal setup procedure of the Hugo, what does the red LED mean again, i left it to warm up for half an hour.
Poured a beer and sat down for an evenings listening.
What was that, where did that come from, that's what that instrument is. OMG, as my little'n would say, Where is it getting all this detail from.
After spending last night and today with it, all i can say is that it has totally transformed my system from top to bottom. I never considered my NDX to be veiled or shut in, not even sure that's the correct terms. All i can say is its opened up the sound stage and space around instruments. Everything I've put through it has had my toes, feet and legs tapping away to the music.
Even putting the toe tapping, the resolution the clarity to one side, what its greatest achievement for me has been in making albums that I've had trouble listening too enjoyable now.
One added bonus is that it has made the XPS redundant. I cannot hear any difference with it in or out of the system.
While i thought a DAC may make a change in the degree of the jump from ND5 to NDX, i was not prepared for this. Anyone looking at adding a PSU to there NDX may want to check this unit out first.
For me this has to be the bargain of the year.
btw what is JRMC?
JRiver Media Centre.
one could turn of all filtering and dithering but I don't think you'll get an honest conversion.
cheers
aleg
Thanks Aleg. I don't think the internal filtering in the Hugo can be turned off. ....
ATB.
Hook
Hook
I didn't mean turning filtering off on the Hugo, but in the Korg AudioGate conversion software. But I think you don't get the best possible conversion result without some help for filtering and dithering.
As you said Hugo applies some filtering too when playing DSD.
one can always try of course and see what comes out of the comparisson.
cheers
Aleg
Thanks Brilliant, so iFI is mostly redundant with Hugo?
It looks like in this case you'd be better off with a breaking the 5v line at the source.
Does the IFI just provide a regulated 5v or does it break the ground path from the source computer too ?
I think this is another area where there may be variations among Hugos. I have a USB cable that does not have the 5v pin and this worked fine between my SB Touch and DAC V1 but does not work with the Hugo.
This has been discussed on the Head-Fi thread and specifically from post No. 2994:
The first 1000 boards of the current batch of 5000, Chord activated a present, but not originally used, sense circuit that detects that the 5 volt is there and allows the USB ASIC to power up. This saves more power when the HD USB is not in use. This extends the battery time of the current units. Although the Chord Hugo does not need the 5volt USB power they do sense that it's there.
The current Hugo now needs to have all four wires so it can see the five volts from the source device USB. Even though it doesn't take measurable power, it does sense that it is there.
Not sure how this would/wouldn't affect the use of an iFI.
btw what is JRMC?
JRiver Media Centre.
Cheers.
Hey I feel a project coming on.
Wat, what are you trying to say here...?
"we are probably talking 0.0003% at 0db in sound quality terms"
Distortion ..... the enemy of the people.
At the analogue output of Hugo.
Presumably derived from the input artefacts and whatever Hugo adds.
NK did the measurements for HFW.
Wat, ok thank you, must admit 0.0003% at 0dB means absolutely nothing as stated ... But I am not sure it matters, the Hugo does appear to have quite low harmonic distortion which perhaps you might be referring to??
Simon
Big Bill
If you want to follow the Linux route then check out Vortexbox - it is free and quite wonderful. It's Fedora based and comes as an installable ISO - the Linux version is stripped of stuff you don't need and it works straight away. The tools you need are all there. It'll serve UPnP, iTunes, Squeezebox, CIFS, NFS or you can play out through USB or S/PDIF. Any Intel hardware will do. Even an old PC you had in garage so you have a play before you decide on the hardware you want. Lots of support through vortexbox.org.
All the best, Wat
Thanks Wat, I will check that out. I have an old PC that I used to use as an Oracle server but now I am retired I don't need to turn that on anymore. I can install Linux on that and find out how to do it all rather than building a Media PC and then making all the mistakes.
BB
Hey I feel a project coming on.
I use a minimal Debian / GNU Linux system (headless, no X, no network manager, ...) to run MPD (music player daemon) as a player on a fanless fit-PC3 with with an internal SSD as a server.
You can control MPD via wireless with a variety of clients running on IOS, Android, OS X, Windows and, of course, Linux systems. I mainly use GMPC (graphical) and ncmpcpp (text based) as clients on my (Linux) laptop. My wife controls MPD with MPoD on her iPhone and iPad.
MPD runs independently of the client. You can switch off your client and the player will keep on running.
Big Bill
If you want to follow the Linux route then check out Vortexbox - it is free and quite wonderful. It's Fedora based and comes as an installable ISO - the Linux version is stripped of stuff you don't need and it works straight away. The tools you need are all there. It'll serve UPnP, iTunes, Squeezebox, CIFS, NFS or you can play out through USB or S/PDIF. Any Intel hardware will do. Even an old PC you had in garage so you have a play before you decide on the hardware you want. Lots of support through vortexbox.org.
All the best, Wat
Thanks Wat, I will check that out. I have an old PC that I used to use as an Oracle server but now I am retired I don't need to turn that on anymore. I can install Linux on that and find out how to do it all rather than building a Media PC and then making all the mistakes.
BB
BB
No need to install the Linux, Vortexbox is complete. It will install the Fedora distro for you.
Vortexbox uses MPD as described by nbpf.
That's right. It's just that Vortexbox will probably install more than you actually need (for instance, a DLNA server, a webserver, possibly a samba server ...). I tend to prefer Debian because this distribution allows you to start with a really minimal system and add components as you need. But that's me. There are also a few so-called "audiophile distributions" (you can check, for instance, http://www.ap-linux.com, http://www.raspyfi.com/ and, of course, http://vortexbox.org ). Best, nbpf
erm chord Hugo a game changer?
to deserve that - it needs to compete favourable with an LP12
That's the day any digital source has the right to call itself a game changer
till then, it's just another digital source that allegedly sounds less harsh, also subjectively.
Anyway there is a lot more to the "less harshness" game for a digital source to compete with analog tape or analog sourced vinyl.
There is accuracy of the timbre, natural decay of notes, air and space, and sheer emotion and musicality. Many things that can't be measured, but you know the real thing when you hear it.
to all the fans of the latest flavour of the month. Ignorance may be bliss, but it sometimes isn't the truth.
Wow, so the last changing of the game was in like 1970 in your world?
I like your commitment.
Big Bill
If you want to follow the Linux route then check out Vortexbox - it is free and quite wonderful. It's Fedora based and comes as an installable ISO - the Linux version is stripped of stuff you don't need and it works straight away. The tools you need are all there. It'll serve UPnP, iTunes, Squeezebox, CIFS, NFS or you can play out through USB or S/PDIF. Any Intel hardware will do. Even an old PC you had in garage so you have a play before you decide on the hardware you want. Lots of support through vortexbox.org.
All the best, Wat
Thanks Wat, I will check that out. I have an old PC that I used to use as an Oracle server but now I am retired I don't need to turn that on anymore. I can install Linux on that and find out how to do it all rather than building a Media PC and then making all the mistakes.
BB
BB
No need to install the Linux, Vortexbox is complete. It will install the Fedora distro for you.
Vortexbox uses MPD as described by nbpf.
All the best, Wat
Yeah I did wonder when you said installable ISO.
I use a minimal Debian / GNU Linux system (headless, no X, no network manager, ...) to run MPD (music player daemon) as a player on a fanless fit-PC3 with with an internal SSD as a server.
You can control MPD via wireless with a variety of clients running on IOS, Android, OS X, Windows and, of course, Linux systems. I mainly use GMPC (graphical) and ncmpcpp (text based) as clients on my (Linux) laptop. My wife controls MPD with MPoD on her iPhone and iPad.
MPD runs independently of the client. You can switch off your client and the player will keep on running.
nbpf thanks also for your post, you have also given me a lot to think about. Indeed thanks to both of you guys. Was your "fanless fit-PC3" an off-the-shelf purchase or did you self-build? I like to build my PCs. I don't kid myself it's cheaper but I get the PC I want, not a compromise on what bargains Dell or HP have with their suppliers. I also think it's the best way to get quality components. For example, for my current PC I wanted a SSD and a Blue Ray optical drive and a year (or two) ago that was not easy to get on an off-the-shelf PC.
Can I run something past you guys. I use MimimServer as my upnp server and I love the fact that not only is it solid, runs on my NAS and especially the way you can configure its decision tree. Now I have only ever used MinimServer, Twonky (rubbish) and FooBar servers and Minim by far has the most easily customisable decision tree. But what about other servers? Do the ones you are using have the same flexibilty as Minim.
I was thinking about starting a new thread on how we construct our tags. But of course if everyone were using Twonky then people won't be constructing tabs because they will be stuck with the Twonky decision tree, which is minimal. Would appreciate your views on this. Or am I getting a bit OCD on my tag structures.
I have also started some programming work on my own tag database. The idea is that the software will scan my music files and read the tags from the FLAC files and then write the data to a MySQL database. I have started the long road to understanding how FLAC files are written and I am now able to strip out what they call the METADATA blocks. The final idea would be to be able to maintain the tags on a GUI fronting the database and then to update the database, which in turn will write out the new tag structure. I have the FLAC docs from xiph.org but is there anyone out there who knows the structure of FLAC files and can give me some hints and tips?
I like your commitment.
Perhaps he just likes listening to the music and his Linn setup gives him the facility to do that.
I don't think analogue is being ambivalenHe has an LP12 and, although I'm evaluating the two DACs, neither are better than the LP12 replay. I'm not looking to replace the LP12, I just want a good secondary choice of music in my system, so I can see where he's coming from.
Steve
Yup that about sums it up.
I have to admit though that I replace my Linn for a Galibier with a Hadcock uni-pivot and then later an air-bearing tonearm some time ago and that sounds pretty good especially with 180g direct metal masters! But then so it should.
Analogue wrote:
"erm chord Hugo a game changer?
to deserve that - it needs to compete favourable with an LP12
That's the day any digital source has the right to call itself a game changer
till then, it's just another digital source that allegedly sounds less harsh, also subjectively".
That's certainly one viewpoint, but it depends upon your definition of 'Game Changer'. I accept that to some people, the best vinyl reproduction beats the best reproduction from a digital source. I myself still enjoy playing vinyl on my own (non Linn) set-up.
But if you choose to follow this argument, why chose the LP12 as a point of reference? There are better turntables out there - what about Clearaudio, Bergmann and many others (albeit often ludicrously expensive) that many (most?) people based outside the UK would rate more highly than the LP12?. Does the Hugo also have to beat them to be considered worthy of comparison?
The reason for my contributions to this forum is that there seems to be an unreasonable amount of largely illogical antagonism towards a number of people who have dared to suggest that a new product is pretty good and worthy of an audition? I for one won't be unduly upset if Steve J reports back that the 'Hugo' is OK but way off the pace of his LP12 or the alternative DAC he is reviewing.
The point about the Hugo is that, to my ears (and apparently to those of a number of others who have contributed to this thread) is that the Hugo offers a level of performance that lifts our digital streaming up a notch from what we were previously using. It also gives (dare I say) an analogue-like quality to music replay that is close enough (or arguably better in the case of hi-res sources) to that of my turntable to ensure that most of my listening is now carried out using my ND5/Hugo or Klimax Renew.
Steve, you certainly have a fantastic set-up, and a pretty maxxed out Linn LP12. I'm happy to accept that it sounds better to you (it might to me too if I heard it) than either of the DACs you are evaluating, but almost certainly for a significantly higher financial outlay.
I think most sensible people would agree that there is room for both vinyl and digital replay.
Analogue wrote:
"erm chord Hugo a game changer?
to deserve that - it needs to compete favourable with an LP12
I think most sensible people would agree that there is room for both vinyl and digital replay.
Yes it is the distance specified in the restraining order. I'm wondering why turntable owners need to be so antagonistic about digital replay. Religion vs. Science anyone?
For anyone who is interested... Just been listening to DJ Krush's Code4109 through my Hugo fed by my NDX via 282/250 into ATC SCM19 mk1 and the experience is draining... In a superbly positive way.. It's never sounded this good.. Breakbeats and a fusion of grooves with a world of musical influences... The Hugo delivers it beautifully, bass is detailed and deep, mids and trebles just simply suck you in... And the sealed ATCs deliver this with no resonance or bloat at all, right the way down to the sofa vibrating frequencies.. Really great experience .. To me moments like this is what it's all about.
Well done Naim, Chord Electronics, ATC, DJ Krush, and the family for being out this morning 
Simon
That's the best endorsement I've read and what it's all about really.
Mine out this morning too....having fun listening anew to some old favourites (and I've not even tried 'Aja' or 'Gaucho' yet 
)
G
Analogue wrote:
"erm chord Hugo a game changer?
to deserve that - it needs to compete favourable with an LP12
I think most sensible people would agree that there is room for both vinyl and digital replay.
Yes it is the distance specified in the restraining order. I'm wondering why turntable owners need to be so antagonistic about digital replay. Religion vs. Science anyone?
I think it works both ways many digital fans are very antagonistic about analog replay. Just look at this site someone says that he really wants to stay with his Linn (fine by me) and then it gets followed by a number of 'my Hugo is brilliant' type posts by people who have already said that 100 times.
For an even more extreme view goto the iTrax site and listen to some of Mark Waldreps rants and moans, this is the guy who claimed that 320k mp3 will beat any analog replay system.
Try to see both sides I say.
No reason why you can't appreciate both. I love my LP12 & it sounds fab. The Chord DAC is also...fab. I use the latter far more than the former, it sounds better than the LP12 in some ways, not as good as in others, but it's far more convenient. Having a dodgy knee takes the shine off having to jump up to change sides and LPs a fair old bit though.
My 14 endorsements precid in order of appearance:
Right - promising - convincing - brilliant - best I've heard - better than anything I've owned - totally absorbing - damn good - full and natural - detailed - brilliantly engineered - loveable - full and tuneful - fun listening...
G
I think many of us moved to digital replay for convenience sake. I for one do not have the room for the storage of albums. Its the main reason i moved to streaming to get away from CD racks.
As for which sounds best, i dont know, but Hugo has definitely brought me to a place im really happy with.
Graeme
I think it works both ways many digital fans are very antagonistic about analog replay. Just look at this site someone says that he really wants to stay with his Linn (fine by me) and then it gets followed by a number of 'my Hugo is brilliant' type posts by people who have already said that 100 times.
Try to see both sides I say.
Well my comment relates also to threads that predate the product release of Hugo. Why would someone say they want to stay with his or her Linn? What a strange statement! Just keep the deck and enjoy. Doubly strange to find them in streaming area and specifically an "NDX and Chord Hugo" thread (I'm assuming you are referring to something in this thread). I got shot of my TT long ago, not the TT's fault but the vinyl's. I have no opinion on the Hugo as I haven't heard it.
fit-PC (http://www.fit-pc.com/web/) is a company offering a number of small, fanless microservers, among other the fit-PC3. You can buy a barebone version and add your hard disk and OS, for instance from https://store.tinygreenpc.com/...pc3-1/fitpc3-lp.html.
I am afraid I cannot help here: I have installed MinimServer and Asset (there was a test version for Raspberry pi which worked fine on Debian stable) but I am not using them. In fact I was not very interested in a streaming solution from the very beginning, I just installed MinimServer and Asset to make sure I could stream if I wanted to. But, at the moment, I do not.
I was thinking about starting a new thread on how we construct our tags. But of course if everyone were using Twonky then people won't be constructing tabs because they will be stuck with the Twonky decision tree, which is minimal. Would appreciate your views on this. Or am I getting a bit OCD on my tag structures.
I have also started some programming work on my own tag database. The idea is that the software will scan my music files and read the tags from the FLAC files and then write the data to a MySQL database. I have started the long road to understanding how FLAC files are written and I am now able to strip out what they call the METADATA blocks. The final idea would be to be able to maintain the tags on a GUI fronting the database and then to update the database, which in turn will write out the new tag structure. I have the FLAC docs from xiph.org but is there anyone out there who knows the structure of FLAC files and can give me some hints and tips?
I have a small music collection and I am following a very elementary approach. I have all my files (mostly FLAC) in a repository on my laptop. They are organized in a directory tree that fits my needs. I manage tags with EasyTAG or with lltag (command line). Every time I make changes to the repository (add files, rename directories, change tags), I run a small rsync script and mirror the repository on an external HD and on the fit-PC3 running MPD (I also keep a snapshot of the repository on those devices so if I'm not happy with the renaming, retagging, etc. I can revert to the original state). This is very fast even on the wireless network because rsync only transfers diffs. For the moment I'm very happy with this strategy and I do not feel the need to implement a more sophisticated scheme.
TonyM hit the nail on the head imho and I think there is quite a bit of antagonism on this site digital v analog and there shouldn't be.