NDX and Chord Hugo

Posted by: Foxman50 on 18 April 2014

I have been contemplating adding a DAC to my NDX/XPS2 to see (or should that be hear) what it can bring to the party. And so thought it about time i made inroads into Having a few home demos. After looking around at products that are within my budget i came across the Chord Hugo DAC.

 

Although it is meant to be a portable headphone unit, it can be used as a full line level fixed DAC.

 

The dealer lent me a TQ black digital coax lead, which have twist grip plugs. This was required as the present batch of Hugo's have a case design fault that wont allow any decent cable to fit, soon to be rectified. Thankfully the TQ just manages to hang on to the coax port.

 

Once all connected and gone through the minimal setup procedure of the Hugo, what does the red LED mean again, i left it to warm up for half an hour.

 

Poured a beer and sat down for an evenings listening.

 

What was that, where did that come from, that's what that instrument is. OMG, as my little'n would say, Where is it getting all this detail from.

 

After spending last night and today with it, all i can say is that it has totally transformed my system from top to bottom. I never considered my NDX to be veiled or shut in, not even sure that's the correct terms. All i can say is its opened up the sound stage and space around instruments. Everything I've put through it has had my toes, feet and legs tapping away to the music.

 

Even putting the toe tapping, the resolution the clarity to one side, what its greatest achievement for me has been in making albums that I've had trouble listening too enjoyable now.

 

One added bonus is that it has made the XPS redundant. I cannot hear any difference with it in or out of the system.

 

While i thought a DAC may make a change in the degree of the jump from ND5 to NDX, i was not prepared for this. Anyone looking at adding a PSU to there NDX may want to check this unit out first.

 

For me this has to be the bargain of the year.

 

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Big Bill
Originally Posted by nbpf:
Originally Posted by nbpf:
Originally Posted by Big Bill:
Originally Posted by nbpf:
I also have to say that I do not really understand what you want to do with the system you are envisaging. If you simply want to serve files which are stored in your QNAP (via a UPnP server different from the ones supported by the QNAP) to a UPnP client then, as I already mentioned, a raspberry pi connected to your local network would be fine. 

Sorry I have obviously not been clear.  I have a QNAP NAS which is running MinimServer and I currently use a UnitiLite in my main system to play music.

 

I want to setup, on a second system that I have, a new streamer and so I have the following options:

(a) get another Uniti, I was thinking of a Qute to keep costs down, or

(b) use a PC in this room.

I do not think you actually have such options. You can certainly use a computer to set up a server that delivers digital data to a DAC --- e.g., a Hugo not to go completely OT --- or to a streamer.

But you will not be able to replace a Uniti with a standard PC (or Mini Mac) without severe losses in sound quality. I guess your alternatives are 1) get another streamer, served by the same  NAS and 2) get a PC (or Mini Mac) and a DAC. If you are happy with streaming you should probably go for 1).

I'm probably keeping on misunderstanding what you want to do, sorry !

 

My understanding was that, in option (b), you want to replace your Uniti(Lite) with a PC and you do not want the PC to work as a server.

 

This would imply that you want to use the PC as a streamer (in place of the UnitiLite to be moved elsewhere). Am I missing something ? In this role (of a streamer), the PC would act as a UPnP client + DAC (which is what the UnitiLite also does, beside being, additionally, a CD player and an integrated amp), the analog signal would come from the internal sound card of the PC and be of lower quality.

 

On the other hand, if you use the PC to drive a DAC (as I suggested in 2)) you will be fine. But then the PC will act as a server for the DAC (and, depending on where you plan to get your data from, possibly also as a UPnP client) which I understood is not what you wanted to have (you wrote: "But this PC, if I go route (b) will NOT be used as a server!")

 

Maybe it would be helpful if you would write down the chain of devices you plan to deploy. I, for instance, use PC > USB2DAC > DAC > Amp > Speakers. 

 No I am not getting rid of my Uniti, that will most definitely be staying, so forget that I have one of them!

 

I have a couple of valve amps, a single-ended 300B and a push-pull using 6V6GT valves, both are from AudioNote.  I also have an AudioNote Preamp (+ a Quad, Exposure peamps and a Borbeli Design Phono amp.  So no shortage of amps.  These get switched around, or they did before I bought my Uniti.

 

So I want to base a system around these amps - or a selection of them - plus a pair of Transmission line speakers built with ILP kit and design.

 

Now all I have to front-end this system are two fairly old CD players from Marantz & Micromega, both 20+ years old and 16 bit obviously.

 

So instead of buying a new CD player I would like to add some sort of streamer.

 

Hope that helps.

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by GraemeH

I thought it was agreed to stop the lengthy arcane off topic threads and start another dialogue?

 

G

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Brilliant
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by Brilliant:
... is a failure to fully evoke the 'emotion' I expect (PN -not stating accuracy or inaccuracy here)...

Ahh. Much more subjective then - and I don't mean that pejoratively.

 

If you don't connect to the music through it then clearly it's not for you.

 

G 

 

 It is not a yes/no .on/off...0/1 ..situation at all - but more of a 'mood altering' experience as described previously

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by Brilliant:
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by Brilliant:
... is a failure to fully evoke the 'emotion' I expect (PN -not stating accuracy or inaccuracy here)...

Ahh. Much more subjective then - and I don't mean that pejoratively.

 

If you don't connect to the music through it then clearly it's not for you.

 

G 

 

 It is not a yes/no .on/off...0/1 ..situation at all - but more of a 'mood altering' experience as described previously

Don't you hate this hobby sometimes. It has to be one of the hardest subjects to express in words. We all know what we want to achieve but getting there is a nightmare. 

 

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Richard Dane
Originally Posted by GraemeH:

I thought it was agreed to stop the lengthy arcane off topic threads and start another dialogue?

 

G

 

Agreed.  Please start a new topic if not about NDX and Chord Hugo.

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Brilliant
Originally Posted by Foxman50:
Originally Posted by Brilliant:
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by Brilliant:
... is a failure to fully evoke the 'emotion' I expect (PN -not stating accuracy or inaccuracy here)...

Ahh. Much more subjective then - and I don't mean that pejoratively.

 

If you don't connect to the music through it then clearly it's not for you.

 

G 

 

 It is not a yes/no .on/off...0/1 ..situation at all - but more of a 'mood altering' experience as described previously

Don't you hate this hobby sometimes. It has to be one of the hardest subjects to express in words. We all know what we want to achieve but getting there is a nightmare. 

 

^I know - words are so 'null' in this context but what else to do?

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by Brilliant:
Originally Posted by Foxman50:
Originally Posted by Brilliant:
Originally Posted by GraemeH:
Originally Posted by Brilliant:
... is a failure to fully evoke the 'emotion' I expect (PN -not stating accuracy or inaccuracy here)...

Ahh. Much more subjective then - and I don't mean that pejoratively.

 

If you don't connect to the music through it then clearly it's not for you.

 

G 

 

 It is not a yes/no .on/off...0/1 ..situation at all - but more of a 'mood altering' experience as described previously

Don't you hate this hobby sometimes. It has to be one of the hardest subjects to express in words. We all know what we want to achieve but getting there is a nightmare. 

 

^I know - words are so 'null' in this context but what else to do?

listening to Hoff Ensemble's Quiet Winter Night and its hauntingly emotional. Maybe the problem is that your system is revealing something about Hugo we are not seeing.

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Brilliant, interesting, I hope you find what you are looking for as it is so intensely satisfying.. I am the opposite with what I have heard, I was listening to Sandy Denny on Sunday pm and with the Northstar Grassman and the Ravens live take from a BBC archive and I actually teared up - the tone and detail of Sandy's voice with her London accent  and the energy of the crowd that was silenced by Sandy's voice just was over powering. My wife listened also captivated - and that is rare!!

I tried to analyse afterwards why it was so powerful even though the recording isn't pristine - and I think it was down to the rich mids and delicate overtones of the her voice and piano with clear timing. This presentation  just seems to make the female voice sound so sensual.

 

But yes - I have tweaked to get there - I am on a phono to BNC to DC1 (I prefer the NDX feed to USB asynchronous from various sources), I am on my second phono to DIN Hiline - I rejected the first as it sounded relatively uninspiring, I am on my second Hugo - I rejected the first one as it did not have the magic of my demo Hugo - I have huge a ferrite clamp half way on the SPDIF lead between Hugo and NDX (seems to richen the audio and had more standout silences) and I place the Hugo on my top shelf Fraim. Perhaps all this is obsessive - well actually I am sure it is - but it has allowed me to get a sound that I had not experienced with digital .. but yes I had to tweak and trial and error to get it.

 

I am a happy chappy - and I actually am now reluctant to change anything on my system just in case I break the spell.

 

Simon

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:
 

I am a happy chappy - and I actually am now reluctant to change anything on my system just in case I break the spell.

 

Simon

I was just about to say that very thing in my post above.

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Brilliant

^Thanks everyone - will certainly keep trying to 'tune' and report back. A bit later on, I will try and compare it to the dealer's demo as well.

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by Wat:
Originally Posted by Foxman50:
Originally Posted by Simon-in-Suffolk:
 

I am a happy chappy - and I actually am now reluctant to change anything on my system just in case I break the spell.

 

Simon

I was just about to say that very thing in my post above.

So would i be if I were on commission - oh sorry that was the other thread.   

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Steve J

Brilliant,

 

It's a shame you're not connecting emotionally with the sound of the Hugo. I'm as surprised as others as it was the emotional connection, with pace and timing, that made me strongly favour the Hugo over the PS Audio DS DAC. If there is no setup problem then I guess it doesn't work for you in your system, just like it is for some with other pieces of kit.

 

Good luck in finding what you want.

 

Steve

 

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by Brilliant
Originally Posted by Steve J:

Brilliant,

 

It's a shame you're not connecting emotionally with the sound of the Hugo. I'm as surprised as others as it was the emotional connection, with pace and timing, that made me strongly favour the Hugo over the PS Audio DS DAC. If there is no setup problem then I guess it doesn't work for you in your system, just like it is for some with other pieces of kit.

 


Good luck in finding what you want.

 

Steve

 

Thanks Steve - I  aim to stop tinkering with it , but just let it play for now. I will pick up the fine tuning again and further evaluation at a later date.

 

Posted on: 30 June 2014 by GraemeH
Originally Posted by GraemeH:

Ever get the feeling you've walked in to some kind of secret society?

 

If I hadn't yet left CD or Vinyl and read all this arcane discussion I'd be running for the hills...

 

Perhaps time for its own thread?

 

G

 

Originally Posted by Big Bill:
Originally Posted by Char Wallah:

I agree, I thought this thread was about buying a Hugo, why is BigBill advocating a return to valve amplification?

Err... where did I do that?  I don't think I mentioned valves, did I?  If so please let me know where.

 

But I agree I will start a new thread about tags 'an 'at.

Here Wat.

 

G

Posted on: 01 July 2014 by Big Bill
Originally Posted by Wat:
Originally Posted by GraemeH:

I thought it was agreed to stop the lengthy arcane off topic threads and start another dialogue?

 

G

Who agreed that? I have been following Big Bill's posts with interest and am awaiting the next move. I think BB wants to run a UPnP client on a PC or Mac, but not sure. I don't know software that dies that. 

Thanks Wat.  This thread was supposed to be NDX v Hugo and from the start it has only been about Hugo and how wonderful it is.  People just posting the same old, same old.  So they should get back on topic and compare their Hugo's with their NDX's.  So can people stop posting how great the Hugo sounds and please just compare them to their NDX.  There that is agreed.

 

Wat, FooBar works on a PC and can act as a upnp server if you download the module (I use it as a tester), don't know how to do it on a Mac.  But that is NOT what I want to do (idiot you just said you do it now! - We must get this Split Peronality thing sorted - Yes you must!).  I just want to fettle some sort of computer to act as a streamer that will connect to my QNAP NAS and will play 24 bit FLAC downloads.  I am leaning towards a Linux box, rather than a Mac Mini at the moment.

 

It's for a second system in ones Garden Room, or Orangery as my niece calls hers, or lean-to as I say.

 

Graeme that was the other Big Bill!

Posted on: 01 July 2014 by Foxman50
Originally Posted by Big Bill:
 This thread was supposed to be NDX v Hugo and from the start it has only been about Hugo and how wonderful it is.  People just posting the same old, same old.  So they should get back on topic and compare their Hugo's with their NDX's.  So can people stop posting how great the Hugo sounds and please just compare them to their NDX.  There that is agreed.

 

Just to be clear its NDX and Hugo not verses
Posted on: 01 July 2014 by Simon-in-Suffolk

Bill - indeed this thread was about NDX and adding the Hugo as an offboard  DAC and how they work together - not one or the other.. the Hugo needs the NDX or equivalent to play a stream.

 

Simon

Posted on: 01 July 2014 by Big Bill
Originally Posted by Foxman50:
Originally Posted by Big Bill:
 This thread was supposed to be NDX v Hugo and from the start it has only been about Hugo and how wonderful it is.  People just posting the same old, same old.  So they should get back on topic and compare their Hugo's with their NDX's.  So can people stop posting how great the Hugo sounds and please just compare them to their NDX.  There that is agreed.

 

Just to be clear its NDX and Hugo not verses

OK but it did imply a comparison did it not?  If that was not intended then it would have just been headed 'Chord Hugo' and Hug and NDX.

 

Maybe I am mistaken but I thought that the NDX contained a DAC????  If it doesn't then fair enough you are 100% correct but if it does then I maintain that the title did imply a comparison

 

And are the vast majority of the posts in this thread informative in any way.  Hearing someone blab on about how amazing it sounds etc etc is not particularly informative, maybe for their first post, we want their views, but not over and over again.

 

Am I making any sense?

Posted on: 01 July 2014 by Foxman50

I Can't say Dolly was good to watch although i enjoyed her music. I will say i really enjoy Hugo though, just in case i hadn't made it clear.

 

Graeme

Posted on: 01 July 2014 by Big Bill
Originally Posted by Char Wallah:
Originally Posted by Big Bill:
Originally Posted by Foxman50:
Originally Posted by Big Bill:
 This thread was supposed to be NDX v Hugo and from the start it has only been about Hugo and how wonderful it is.  People just posting the same old, same old.  So they should get back on topic and compare their Hugo's with their NDX's.  So can people stop posting how great the Hugo sounds and please just compare them to their NDX.  There that is agreed.

 

Just to be clear its NDX and Hugo not verses

OK but it did imply a comparison did it not?  If that was not intended then it would have just been headed 'Chord Hugo' and Hug and NDX.

 

Maybe I am mistaken but I thought that the NDX contained a DAC????  If it doesn't then fair enough you are 100% correct but if it does then I maintain that the title did imply a comparison

 

And are the vast majority of the posts in this thread informative in any way.  Hearing someone blab on about how amazing it sounds etc etc is not particularly informative, maybe for their first post, we want their views, but not over and over again.

 

Am I making any sense?

 

Not really. Does someone need, for example, to understand how their satellite dish picks up and converts a digital signal into a picture on a screen, to say how much they enjoy watching someone like Dolly Parton on their tv? 

 

Hows does it work, btw?

All I said was that I thought the title "NDX and Chord Hugo implied a comparison, that's all.  I wasn't having a pop at anyone or trying to make some smarty-pants point, it was just how I interpreted it.

 

What that has to do with knowing how your satellite dish picks up a signal is totally beyond me.  Perhaps you could explain.

Posted on: 01 July 2014 by Jasonf

That is amazing!

 

I honestly thought the thread was titled "Hugo v NDX", well I am buggered.

 

Now there is quite a clear example of the power of auto-suggestion (not), or more like social control in a very Edward Bernays kind of way....you should try a Hugo?

 

Jason.

Posted on: 01 July 2014 by Foxman50

Its or it was meant to be a thread about enhancing my NDX with the addition of adding a Hugo, hence it compares the DAC in the NDX with that of the Hugo, but it was not about replacing the NDX.

 

However due to Hugo's flexibility it could be used in conjunction with another unit to replace the NDX.

 

The choice is yours.

 

Graeme

Posted on: 01 July 2014 by GraemeH

I've always understood the ethos of Naim to include the idea of additive components as 'building blocks' to upgrded SQ - be they power supplies or a DAC. An element of redundancy is often the result of this kind of upgrade ethos.

 

In this instance, and for now, that idea persists with a complementary but non-naim product to achieve the best possible digital replay for comparatively little outlay.

 

(Above thread as I was typing)

 

G

Posted on: 01 July 2014 by Hmack

Jasonf wrote

 

"Now there is quite a clear example of the power of auto-suggestion (not), or more like social control in a very Edward Bernays kind of way....you should try a Hugo?"

 

 

Hardly!

 

This was a very innocent thread that appears to have been hi-jacked (or attempted to be hijacked) by a number of people who appear to be developing something of a persecution complex.

 

Why not simply accept the discussion for what it is? This thread has been of great benefit to me. If it happened to be about a fantastic new Naim DAC then it would have been of equal benefit.

 

Probably there is a new  Naim DAC just round the corner - I'll be very happy to contribute (in a positive way) to the new thread. 

Posted on: 01 July 2014 by Jasonf
Originally Posted by Hmack:

Jasonf wrote

 

"Now there is quite a clear example of the power of auto-suggestion (not), or more like social control in a very Edward Bernays kind of way....you should try a Hugo?"

 

 

Hardly!

 

This was a very innocent thread that appears to have been hi-jacked (or attempted to be hijacked) by a number of people who appear to be developing something of a persecution complex.

 

Why not simply accept the discussion for what it is? This thread has been of great benefit to me. If it happened to be about a fantastic new Naim DAC then it would have been of equal benefit.

 

Probably there is a new  Naim DAC just round the corner - I'll be very happy to contribute (in a positive way) to the new thread. 

I think we are all aware of that. I wouldn't get too touchy about it and try to see the lighter side.

 

Jason.