World Cup Russia 2018 Thread

Hope no tears on Wednesday night again.

TOBYJUG posted:

Hope no tears on Wednesday night again.

I think those particular tears were because he had just picked up a yellow card and would miss the next game.  But I still agree with you about Wednesday.  Croatia will be a step up for this England team both technically and in big-game experience.  But by now, having exceeded expectations, the England players should be playing with confidence and little fear.  Croatia will be wary, too, especially of England's success at set-pieces.  

As an aside from the World Cup, I was sad to see that Alan Gilzean passed away today. I remember seeing him play for Spurs when I was a teenager. He was a class striker. Scotland don't seem to produce players like him these days.

I think the Telegraph did the whole country a massive favour in September 2016 with their sting operation which exposed Sam Allardyce as a greedy, arrogant and grasping slob willing to put his personal enrichement above both his country and the rules of the game; and which forced his resignation as England manager.

Had this not happened, Hippo Head would have still been manager, Rooney would still be captain, Hart our goalie, and the team would have been stuffed full of entitled has-beens, playing Jurassic football. We'd have not made it past the last 16 - we might have even gone home without making it out of the group stage.

Instead we have a young, hungry (if still learning) team which plays to its strengths and which plays like a team. This is down to Southgate, a likeable, cultured, meticulous and smart manager who seems to possess a great deal of emotional intelligence; and who knows how to get the best out of what he's got (it's a talented team, rather than a superstar one, but Pickford, Trippier, Kane, Maguire and Stones are all exciting prospects who've really grown at this tournament). He's also managed the expectations of the nation quite magnificently.

Southgate, his assistants and his players all deserve credit for dragging English football into the 21st century, after the antediluvian antics of Sven, Capello, Hodgson and Hippo Head.

Even if they don't make it past the semis, I think the country will be pleased and proud, and King Gareth and co can build for Eur0 2020.

Kevin-W posted:

I think the Telegraph did the whole country a massive favour in September 2016 with their sting operation which exposed Sam Allardyce as a greedy, arrogant and grasping slob willing to put his personal enrichement above both his country and the rules of the game; and which forced his resignation as England manager.

Had this not happened, Hippo Head would have still been manager, Rooney would still be captain, Hart our goalie, and the team would have been stuffed full of entitled has-beens, playing Jurassic football. We'd have not made it past the last 16 - we might have even gone home without making it out of the group stage.

Instead we have a young, hungry (if still learning) team which plays to its strengths and which plays like a team. This is down to Southgate, a likeable, cultured, meticulous and smart manager who seems to possess a great deal of emotional intelligence; and who knows how to get the best out of what he's got (it's a talented team, rather than a superstar one, but Pickford, Trippier, Kane, Maguire and Stones are all exciting prospects who've really grown at this tournament). He's also managed the expectations of the nation quite magnificently.

Southgate, his assistants and his players all deserve credit for dragging English football into the 21st century, after the antediluvian antics of Sven, Capello, Hodgson and Hippo Head.

Even if they don't make it past the semis, I think the country will be pleased and proud, and King Gareth and co can build for Eur0 2020.

Agree completely, 

Yeh, Rooney once said that he was more interested in playing in big ticket premier matches than on tournaments.

England always had trouble playing as a team because of big knobs that couldn't deal with themselves properly.........   which ultimately comes down to management ! 

TOBYJUG posted:

Yeh, Rooney once said that he was more interested in playing in big ticket premier matches than on tournaments.

England always had trouble playing as a team because of big knobs that couldn't deal with themselves properly.........   which ultimately comes down to management ! 

I  totally agree with this as well...

Hook posted:   

I read somewhere that "soccer" used to be the English name for the sport. Originally, you guys called "rugby football" either rugby or rugger, and you called "association football" soccer.  At some point, you started saying football instead of soccer. 

The two sports spread to the US. We then invented our own variant of "rugby football" and called it simply "football". I assume we maintained the name soccer to avoid confusion.

No not really - the term 'Soccer' came from the corruption and shortening  of the term Association Football.. then soccer football and then either soccer or football. Soccer probably is mainly used in countries with other dominant football games that have not got an alternate name like rugby for rugby football. 

Anecdotally I have also read that there was a class thing as well, Soccer was a term used by the upper and wealthier classes in Britain  and football was used more by the working classes. Probably because original football had many rules and variants and was mainly a collection of working class games until the Association rules were developed in 1863 where the formal split between Rugby Football and Association Football was made - and the Association Football rules were harmonised

MDS posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

Hope no tears on Wednesday night again.

I think those particular tears were because he had just picked up a yellow card and would miss the next game.  But I still agree with you about Wednesday.  Croatia will be a step up for this England team both technically and in big-game experience.  But by now, having exceeded expectations, the England players should be playing with confidence and little fear.  Croatia will be wary, too, especially of England's success at set-pieces.  

I know nothing about soccer/football but no one jumped off the screen at me for Croatia. They did seem faster than Russia but nothing that woukd scare me as a team. Haven't seen England play but did see they had the leading scorer of the tourney so I assume he's a player. If I had to put money on it I would take England. I thought Croatia should have crushed Russia but again tgays my 3rd match in 4 years I've seen. How is England's athleticism compared to Croatia for those that have actually watched both teams?

Croatia have some outstanding players, but have so far not played to their potential, having gone through their last two matches on penalties.

England also can still improve, its a close call separating the two teams.

A lot will depend on if the players can step up and not be overawed by the occasion.... 

My money is on Captain Kane and his band of men.

Listening to the likes of Shearer and Dixon they feel the area of concern for England is midfield mostly because Lingard & Alli vacate midfield leaving Henderson.

This has worked for England so far, however the Croatian midfield players are high quality and they cannot be allowed space to dominate and create in this area.

I'm sure Southgate is well aware of this and will plan a strategy accordingly. We will find out on Wednesday evening.

I watched the Croatia game, and was baffled by the fact that Modric, far and away their most creative midfield player, seemed to be playing in the back four, and his body language for much of the match suggested that he was less than happy in this role.

If they stick to the same formation, it will certainly make life easier for our midfield.

dave marshall posted:

I watched the Croatia game, and was baffled by the fact that Modric, far and away their most creative midfield player, seemed to be playing in the back four, and his body language for much of the match suggested that he was less than happy in this role.

If they stick to the same formation, it will certainly make life easier for our midfield.

Dave

Article I read in the Wall Street Journal a couple of days ago noted that Croatia was a superbly talented team but most of the talent just happened to be midfielders. They knew they had a problem but thought having them on the field together brought the most talent to bare on the problem and thus on balance was the way to go. Your observation is no doubt correct. So far, its working. And even a novice like myself can see the specialness in Modric.

The England team has more to give they have built a momentum with each match and I believe there are some players who still have a big part to play.

Deli Ali came through with a goal in the last match but can still improve and play a big part if he remains uninjured, Jamie Vardy could yet add a big chapter to the amazing story of his footballing journey and I have a sneaky suspicion that the little man with the comedy run Raheem Sterling may yet do something amazing.

It seems the country has gone football crazy pushed by my better half to sample some of the atmosphere we are going to one of our locals on Wednesday but have had to book a table. A sensible way of controlling who you allow in I suppose so hopefully the pint throwers will be kept out!

MDS posted:

Who would have thought it was possible after all these years....

Ok we have done well, really well. BUT to win a World Cup a team needs about 3 world class players eg in 66 there was Banks, Moore & Bobby Charlton. We don't have any! So I think will reach our ceiling soon, hopefully in the final.

Ray

thebigfredc posted:

Ok we have done well, really well. BUT to win a World Cup a team needs about 3 world class players eg in 66 there was Banks, Moore & Bobby Charlton. We don't have any! So I think will reach our ceiling soon, hopefully in the final.

Ray

Ray, I was musing on the same comparison earlier today. I wonder whether those three were regarded as world class before that World Cup or did the outcome do more to create that? Maybe Charlton went into the tournament with that reputation but not so sure about Banks and Moore. Greaves was up there with the best but didn't play in the final. And, of course, that World Cup was also remembered for Hurst and Peters coming to international attention.  Perhaps a few of the current England squad are on the cusp of doing something similar.  As Southgate has said, this World Cup could change their lives.   

Fair enough about the team of 66 MDS. More recent examples of WC winners support my point though:

Germany 2014 Lalm, Neuyer, Muller

Spain 2010 Chavi, Iniesta, Puyol

Italy 2006 had only Pirlo and Buffon from memory but it was a bit of a crap WC and we probably had better individuals that year Cole, Gerrard, Scoles, Beckham

Brazil 2002 Ronaldinhio, Rivaldo, Ronaldo

I suppose what I am saying is that I recognise that Southgate has built a team which is greater than the sum of its parts but ultimately it won't be quite good enough to win the competition. I would love to be proved wrong.

Ray

thebigfredc posted:

Fair enough about the team of 66 MDS. More recent examples of WC winners support my point though:

Germany 2014 Lalm, Neuyer, Muller

Spain 2010 Chavi, Iniesta, Puyol

Italy 2006 had only Pirlo and Buffon from memory but it was a bit of a crap WC and we probably had better individuals that year Cole, Gerrard, Scoles, Beckham

Brazil 2002 Ronaldinhio, Rivaldo, Ronaldo

I suppose what I am saying is that I recognise that Southgate has built a team which is greater than the sum of its parts but ultimately it won't be quite good enough to win the competition. I would love to be proved wrong.

Ray

From an objective viewpoint. England is missing some punch while it’s an nice team to watch. They might already get strangled by Croatia. But more likely they will not survive either of the other team Belgium or France. But then again, it’s already a great achievement to arrive to the semi final or even be in the final.

Teams can grow in confidence throughout a tournament, and as a result really start to express themselves and play to their full potential....

this is probably where England are..... they have exceeded expectations so no more fear of failure....

Plus we do have some real quality players, I think Sterling, Kane are a terrific combination, we can also cause problems due to the great heading ability of our two defensive goal scorers, Stones and Mcguire....

Englands set pieces seem to put defences in a state of fear.... 

I think England have a real chance of beating Croatia who are in a similar position themselves having not really reached full potential but have had two exceptionally gruelling matches with extra time and penalties.....

It’s going to be a fascinating encounter...

The big change in England team is the lack of "stars " and that is a good thing for teamwork. 

Plus young emerging and hungry to prove talent means they are always pestering the opposition. 

I hope it's a good match to watch. 

I will be sad a bit for the losing team as Croatia are a good team. 

France and Belgium are good teams too. .

The Japanese team played excellent too and I was hoping for 1 Asian team in the last 4.

Maybe next time... 

All this way.. All this far but there can be only one winner. ..

Big congratulations to Russia for organizing the world cup in the way they have... 

It's been great to watch.. 

Looking forward to hearing a rousing rendition of La Marseillaise tonight.

If only Brazil had beat Belgium, we could have forsaken the game and had the matter decided by the battle of these two brilliant anthems.

Ray

France Belgium is like watching some kind of London-Manchester Premiership derby mash-up.