SuperLine Loading Thread.

David. The cartridge was new at the same time as the Superline. It *could* be that but after 150 hrs I would expect it to be pretty much run in. I have had the Superline since April. It has been switched off recently for my holiday but before that it was on for nearly 6 weeks.

Kuma

Using an Naim armlead is something I have been thinking might be a solution. Its probably worth a try if things don't get any better. I will discuss with Peter when I see him.

Julian

OK, last night I felt the Supercap/Burndy/HiLine had settled down sufficiently to do a bit of serious listening with the different loading plugs.(rest of relevant bits - LP12, ARO, 'Geddon, DV Te Taikura Rua).

I'd been using the 470R for a while in preference to the original 500. Andy at Signals had recently made up a 453 for me, so I thought I'd try all three again, starting with the 500 & working down.

I managed to enlist the help of my dearly beloved (the wife being out for the evening) on the basis that she's a fair bit younger than me & therefore theoretically her hearing should be a bit better. Admittedly her love of Meat Loaf isn't a very good sign...And Jon Honeyball thinks I'm deaf anyway('t'was your DBLs wot did it Jon!).

Without reference to the other plugs, the 500 sounds very good indeed. If that was the only choice I wouldn't be too worried, but as soon as you make the comparisons, it begins to sound rather flat and uninteresting.

The 470 adds more detail and gives a livelier sound and a more tuneful bass. Interestingly, when I was powering the Superline with the 552, this was at the expense of a touch of sibilance on a couple of albums but with the SC combination this has altogether disappeared.

I'd tried the 453 briefly a couple of days ago but then it had seemed not a great deal different to the 470, although when we tried it at the recent Signals "Summer Sounds" using the same cartridge (but different deck and arm) it was significantly better.

Trying it once more last night, it was definitely a significant improvement on the other two in all ways, a much more enjoyable listen. SWMBO felt the same although she didn't really notice much of a difference between the 470 & 500.

Having previously tried & rejected any additional capacitance, I gave the 1Pf plug a quick try earlier. And quickly unplugged it...

Good show, Tony! :-)

quote:

Originally posted by tonym:
Admittedly her love of Meat Loaf isn't a very good sign......

Must be a scottish thing, Tony, my wife is off to see Iron Maiden tomorrow!

Mark

Tony,

Glad you have at last had chance to try a 453R.
On an LP12/Aro/Geddon with a TK Rua the 453R is clearly better than either 470R or the stock 500R IMHO. However, I'm still working on a few things which I hope will improve things still further

Kind regards,

Peter

I've started to play around with loadings on the Akiva tonight.

This might be probably a *gimmie* since noone mentioned it so far, but I also put a Linto on a stand-by.
Should be good to go by tomorrow.

quote:

Originally posted by tonym: Admittedly her love of Meat Loaf isn't a very good sign...

Tony,

There is no hope. I suggest you buy her an iPod and retire to another room.

Steve

Akiva/ARO/52/LP12
It took me a bit to adjust my brain moving from the Miyabi47 to the Akvia. it's been a while I used the Akiva on the Sondek.

500R/No cap
Overall pleasant.
Pronounced and excessive sibilance spoil some vocal program and the bass line is somewhat confused and overblown. ( some might think it has a nice bloom. Not for me, tho. I would like to hear a bit more linear bass line than this )

500R/1nf
Better.
Overall, tidier, more 'together' .
Some might feel the soundstage is smaller but musically this is in the right direction for me.
Trebles is more civil but the timing is still a bit off.
The midbass tends to be one-notey but easier to follow than no cap arrangement.
The vocals have more presence. A bit more forward than a somewhat laidback 500R/no cap.

560R/1nF
Even groovier than a 500R/1nF.
A lot less spitty Sssssssss....yet maintaining a stronger vocal presence and focused central imagery. Nice!
The music flows along nicely. Pacing is excellent.

560R/No cap
has more get-up-and-go than with a 1nF.
Tidier, compact. Less bloom and note decay.
Bright trebles is back again.
It can remain civil if the recordings are good. Otherwise, it's a bit hard to take.

Overall, I feel it's still wanting. I want it faster and more upbeat. it can sound somewhat flat. Punctuations are missing.
For some reason, the bass is still a tad ill-defined and certainly I know the Akiva can track a bass line better than this.
Oddly, the shortcoming is even more obvious via NAHA/AT 3k.

No winner so far.

p.s. I see why Julian H is a bit dissapointed with this. What a contrast from the Miyabi/47 with a 220R loading!

quote:

p.s. I see why Julian H is a bit dissapointed with this.

There may be other reasons!



576+1 works on a Linned LP12/Akiva just peachy

J

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:


560R/No cap
has more get-up-and-go than with a 1nF.
Tidier, compact. Less bloom and note decay.
Bright trebles is back again.
It can remain civil if the recordings are good. Otherwise, it's a bit hard to take.

Overall, I feel it's still wanting. I want it faster and more upbeat. it can sound somewhat flat. Punctuations are missing.
For some reason, the bass is still a tad ill-defined and certainly I know the Akiva can track a bass line better than this.

Yes the Akiva does seem to need the 1nF loading with the 560R but there are some pluses and some minuses there as you have reported.

With the 576R I prefer the 1nF loading for sure, and it's the best loading combination I've found so far with the Linn.

I'm sure you'd prefer this.

Kind regards,

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by Cymbiosis:

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:


560R/No cap
has more get-up-and-go than with a 1nF.
Tidier, compact. Less bloom and note decay.
Bright trebles is back again.
It can remain civil if the recordings are good. Otherwise, it's a bit hard to take.

Overall, I feel it's still wanting. I want it faster and more upbeat. it can sound somewhat flat. Punctuations are missing.
For some reason, the bass is still a tad ill-defined and certainly I know the Akiva can track a bass line better than this.

Yes the Akiva does seem to need the 1nF loading with the 560R but there are some pluses and some minuses there as you have reported.

With the 576R I prefer the 1nF loading for sure, and it's the best loading combination I've found so far with the Linn.

I'm sure you'd prefer this.

Kind regards,

Peter

Hmmm... I already spent $100 with NANA to have them make me up a 560 plug. I do not have any desire to spend another $100 for a 576 plug .... unless they want to give me an early birthday present.

Gregg

Peter,

Let me know if you ever end up doing a .5nF cap experiment.

I hope I get to try a 576R but meantime, I can use the Linto which seems grooving better than any of the plug combo thus far. :x

Might be worth trying the 200R | 5n6 loading combo, which is similar to the factory internal loading for the Linto (150R | 4n7).

Well guys it's been interesting reading and I'll probably get one by August. However, I'm buying a 52/Scap and getting it serviced in transit by NANA. This should be a major step up and anxious to get it here. Powered by 300 amp into SHL5. Then I'll send off my 82 and 2 hicaps and let my dealer sell them in order to fund the Superline.

My question is, do I need to hold on to one of those hicaps? or just use the powered socket?

I can't afford an Scap and no room in my corner stack. But I could put a hicap on the floor next to the Superline. Since I already have it I'll probably hold on to one.

What are your comments?

quote:

Originally posted by David Dever:
Might be worth trying the 200R | 5n6 loading combo, which is similar to the factory internal loading for the Linto (150R | 4n7).

David,

That would be interesting.
Would't it better to match exactly to the Linto's loading, then?

If the loading is matched, the only variable would be Linn vs. Naim's voicing of an amplifier.

The Linto grooves all right, but it sounds too damn *happy
'n'cheery* all the time, if you know what I mean.

The 5n6 blank contains a 4n7 capacitor, per channel.

A quick comparison with 400R || 1nF vs. 220R || 5n6 on a Troika showed that the tonal balance was quite similar, though the speed was not the same.

David,

I will try a 220R/5n6 to see.

p.s. all those plug options, I wasn't paying attention to a tonal balance of things.
I mean.. the system needs to groove first!

Has anyone gone through listening tests with a Troika on their new Superline?

If so, what values have you found most enjoyable?

Thanks,

Bruce

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:
David,

I will try a 220R/5n6 to see.

p.s. all those plug options, I wasn't paying attention to a tonal balance of things.
I mean.. the system needs to groove first!

Exactly Kuma, that's what I was doing several months ago when I first reported on loadings with the Akiva.... Just to refresh people's memories, here's what I wrote at the time:

quote:

Originally posted by me:

Akiva:

1K only - Bright, in one's face but tuneful and detailed.
560 only - Better than 1K, sweeter, more tuneful, very detailed, excellent dynamics.
500 only - Sounds tamed versus the 560, lost the edge, slightly veiled, not as musical.
470 only - Flatter, loss of detail and dynamics, a bit ploddy as compared to the above. Yawn.
390 only - Flatter still, more loss of detail, slow - not the way to go, loading wise.
320 only - Even flatter, slower, everythin becoming rather indistinct. Confirmed this is the wrong direction to follow.
220 only - Didn't bother.

Given the 560R was so much better, I have limited myself to checking the capacative loadings with this resistive value only so far. These comments are in relation to 560R and no cap loading:

560 +10nF - Everything sounds tubby, more rounded, slower less tuneful, thick.
560 +5.6nF - Everything sounds a bit more veiled, a bit more rounded, less punch, not as musical, but much better than 10nF*
560 +1nf - Fantastic! everything has clicked into place for me, so musical, bounce, punch, attack, detail all better than before. Musically wonderfully satisfying - could listen for hours

The lower value loads just didn't do it for me so I gave up before I got to the 220R. It will be interesting to see if this is repeated with the Troika. My guess is yes, but I no longer have a Troika to play with.

I'll see if I can lay my hands on one for some evaluations.

FYI. IMHO the best I've achieved with the Akiva so far is 576R and 1nF.

Hope this helps.

Kind regards,

Peter

Kuma/Peter

I tried the 220R + 5.6nF combintaion (with Akiva) on Monday night and found it to be impressive.

However, last night I went back to the 560R + 1nF loading and found it to be much more enjoyable. I am in the process of getting the components to make "Linto loading" plugs 150R + 4.7nF just to check there is not a "sweet spot" at that point! Will report back when I have done the listening.

Julian

Excellent Julian - very useful. How is your latest 576R performing as compared to the 560R in your system?

quote:

Posted Wed 09 July 2008 08:30
Excellent Julian - very useful. How is your latest 576R performing as compared to the 560R in your system?

TBH, I had not tried the 560R. Will try tonight or tomorrow.... Watch this space.

J

Hi Peter

Well I have been playing with the replacement 576R vs the 560R. I have to say, there are many qualities of the 560R I prefer over 576R (with Akiva).

With 576+1 there is a nice freeness and "blaring" quality which is quite addictive. Also, it flows really nicely too.

With the 560+1 music is more strident and driven. The whole "soundstage" is a little smaller. I wonder if there is a nice compromise somewhere between the two.

I would say there are no right or wrong answers between the two, it being a matter of personal preference.

Tonights listening sessions have been done with the following three superb albums.







I guess if I had been listening to Alison Krauss I might have different feelings?

J

Munch-

"Is that a re built one?
Or an original?"

I have an original Troika that has very low actual use on it, although I am sure it has aged in various ways. Still something I love about the Troika that no modern cartridge (at least among those I have heard extensively) fully embodies. Certainly many of the Lyra's are better at information retrieval, and far more capable of creating a sound stage, but the Linn has that classic musicality that is like, an LP 12, a very happy middle ground between a very warm, wet sound, and some of the more articulate, but possibly drier sounding models. Looking forward to see if my "old friend" is as good as I recall in the light of a more open and capable phono stage.

Bruce

Oops! I have just noticed an error in a previous posting.

quote:

However, last night I went back to the 560R + 1nF loading and found it to be much more enjoyable. I am in the process of getting the components to make "Linto loading" plugs 150R + 4.7nF just to check there is not a "sweet spot" at that point! Will report back when I have done the listening.

should have been.....

However, last night I went back to the 576R + 1nF loading and found it to be much more enjoyable. I am in the process of getting the components to make "Linto loading" plugs 150R + 4.7nF just to check there is not a "sweet spot" at that point! Will report back when I have done the listening.

J