SuperLine Loading Thread.

I am still on a 590R on the Akiva/ARO.

The Miyabi/47, OTOH, I have dusted off the Phonocube and it seems, in spite a higher noise floor than the SuperLine, everything just locks in.

A 220R/No Cap is still good, but comparatively it's still a bit off. ( can't seem to get the midrange magic ) It probably needs something between the 100R and 220R.

Hello Peter

Thanks for the offer. I will take you up on that because I have been unable to get any 590 resistors.

I will bring a DIN plug

Cheers, Julian

Hi Richard, great write up!

Isn't it funny how we all prefer different things. I have the identical front end to you and can't get enough of the 560R. I found the 500R never let the cartridge go, holding it back. I find the 576R bright and soft, rounded and over detailed.

One evening a few weeks ago I put the 576R on just for fun and listened to an album, switched off unimpressed and went to bed. The following evening I came home and switched on. After tea I sat down to listen and immediately felt something was missing. Of course, I forgot I had changed the loading the night before for an hour or so, during which worrying about what had happened to my lovely kit!

Julian

other relevant information....
T-Kable with BNC connection
All the above with 1nF capacitance plug
4/5 Interconnect, not HiLine

quote:

Originally posted by Julian H:

Isn't it funny how we all prefer different things. I have the identical front end to you and can't get enough of the 560R. I found the 500R never let the cartridge go, holding it back. I find the 576R bright and soft, rounded and over detailed.

Maybe we actually like similar things and haven't realised it yet!

Could it be the speakers and or room affecting things? (I appreciate there are lots of other variables but.....)

Maybe that's why the best you have found is the 560R with the active SBLs and the 576R too much? While the B&W's need a little more HF lift in particular to bring the best out of them in Richard's opinion. On the other hand Kuma is finding even a little more with 590R hits the spot for the Briks. Very simplistic here and just thinking out loud.... Always dangerous!

My guess is that you might find the 590R will just be OTT with the SBL's. Interested to find out though.

KR.

Peter

quote:

On the other hand Kuma is finding even a little more with 590R hits the spot for the Briks. Very simplistic here and just thinking out loud.... Always dangerous!

Peter,

I only use a turntable in my office setup where I have been using a pair of Wilson WATT6 which going on last 7-8 years or so.

Altho, I found the same results with passive 500 DBL.

Maybe, I'm guessing outloud as well, a turntable set up on Linn varies so much. So far your finding is based on turntables tuned by you.

Could it be?

Failing that, it has got to be a personal taste, then.

quote:

Maybe we actually like similar things and haven't realised it yet!

Oh yes, absolutely. As I aluded to in one of my earlier posts, using loading to (very slightly) tune the system is useful.

FWIW, though I find the extra brightness positive, just the "soft/roundedness" detracting with the 576R.

J

quote:

Originally posted by Cymbiosis:
....Maybe that's why the best you have found is the 560R with the active SBLs and the 576R too much? While the B&W's need a little more HF lift in particular to bring the best out of them in Richard's opinion.

On the other hand Kuma is finding even a little more with 590R hits the spot for the Briks....

Peter

Peter,

Useful observation as I had a similar thought that that the speakers/room may have a role, in my case B&W 802D's, and perhaps for me the 560R is the closest.

And as we all agree at the end of the day it is personal taste - for me I always go towards that live fealing and closeness to the 'soul' rather than precise studio recodings (gross generalisation by the way) and as my system has improved over the years (well decades) I have increasingly enjoyed live recordings and for some reason all my Dylan albums (studio recorded) seem to get better and better!

Anyway, I will have to wait a bit now to borrow the 560R back from The SORG and do the 500R v 560R v 576R comparion.

I will also see what The SORG's experience has been to compare notes.

By the way I observed my stylus needs to be immaculately clean other wise the slightest fluff can cause distortion...not an issue but just good practice to clean my stylus with my microfibre brush after each LP.

Richard

Any one can give loading for superline with transfiguration orpheus?

When I tried it a 220R/no cap worked well. Or at least it's a good starting point.

Thankyou Kuma! I currently have been using 500 with no cap while things break in. Will try your suggestion.

A further update on my SL trials.

After the previous weekend when I compared the 576R v 500R I came away with no firm preference between the 576R (detail but may be a bit harsh) and the 500R (as rounded and live performance like but a bit muddy).

So this weekend The SORG lent me the 560R again and I could do a full 500R v 560R v 570R comparison.

My wife and I did a series of blind listening tests on each other going through a range of LPs:

Bryan Ferry – Dylanesque
John Martyn – The Church With One Bell
Jimi Hendrix – Hendrix In The West (Little Wing)
Traffic – Dear Mr Fantasy
Bob Dylan - Infidels
Pink Floyd – Dark Side Of The Moon, Meddle and Wish You Were Here
Paul Weller – 22 Dreams
Beatles – Anthology 2

My wife was keen to hear LPs of bands/artists we have seen a few times so we had a sort of reference point of what these artists actually sound/feal like. We succeeded in this aspect apart from Hendrix who we have never seen and The Beatles who my wife saw but way back in the 60’s.

What was consistent was fantastic music whether it was the 500, 560 or 576.

Once again similar findings on the 500 being ‘warmer’ and ‘rounder’ but a bit muddy and the 576 being full of detail but missing some feal/soul and we were heading towards a definite 560 preference.

But then we started to find that we preferred the 576 on some LPs, style of music etc. the 500 on others and the 560 on others and all sorts of combinations.

Was it the vinyl, the pressing or what?

I also began to wonder if it depended on how tight I had fitted the R plug in the back of the SL (my approach was to fit it and then loosen it a bit by retracting by about 1mm.)

It is interesting as at times I find the 576R has too much detail, odd as it may sound, but that is what happened when I first used the Keel only to grow and appreciate it after a week or two. So maybe I will grow to appreciate the 576?

So I have decided to order a 560R and 576R from The SORG and use the 560R for a couple of months to really ‘get to know it’ and then try the 576R for a similar period to really ‘get to know’ it and then decide. As at the end of the day I want the right “feeling” from my Hi-Fi and therefore need to give these things a long trail such that when I change I can really “feel” whether the change is better or detrimental.

But regardless the music and involvement is stunning!

Richard

quote:

Was it the vinyl, the pressing or what?

Records vary hugely.

That's why I average.
I went back to a 570R plug again. Yeah.. i can follow a bass line better, but what strikes me first when I switch from a 590R plug is that tonally it's so weird and definitely the music sounds more incisive and synthetic. It can be entertaining on some records, but in a long run, it was more misses than hits on my record collection.

Richard,

I've settled on 560 with Akiva into B&W 800D...

BTW nice to see this thread at the top of the forum again. Feels like old times

quote:

use the 560R for a couple of months to really ‘get to know it’ and then try the 576R for a similar period to really ‘get to know’ it and then decide.

Thats more or less what I'm doing too!

J

Now I'm REALLY frustrated.
I have a Rega P5 into 82, 2hicaps and 300 powering Harbeth SLH5.

Mid summer I was helping my aging parents and bought a 52/Scap from a nice guy in Canada. I decided to have the whole thing serviced now instead of 2 years tearing the whole thing apart again. I've not been home much till 3 days ago, the nice guys at NANA have been breaking it in for me since mid August.

I also splurged on a Superline and didn't know you have to buy the Snaic so I did that and they've shipped the boxes to me. I could have been warming it up instead of just admiring it's minimalist blackness. Like the 2001 monolith.

It's just all the waiting for the arrival hopefully next tuesday 16th. I WANT IT NOW!

My whole summer has been frustration having to help dad after knee surgery, walking ever so slowly down the hall or showering and dressing. It also takes 20 minutes for him to get to the garage and into the passenger seat for a Dr visit. I'm pretty fast at things and can dodge in and out at a moments notice, but I've had to do a major shift from warp speed to Slooooow.

But this waiting for the shipment is terrible. I sat down to read the Superline booklet again last night and brought up all the old fears of "Is it really going to be better than what I have?" and "Why did I spend so much?" Tho I feel this is the reward for my diligence with dad.

I'm also not understanding the plugs and all. Electrical/mechanical stuff is so opposite of my biology and design background.

Also trying to figure out where to put the Superline. It either has to be on a heavy block on the floor or in a shelf in a very heavy wood coffee table, but that makes it almost inaccessible to play with plugs in the back. Unless I place it backwards at the front of the shelf.

Ugh!

W2

Chill man, it will arrive.

Since you have ordered a Snaic and nothing else(?) I assume you are powering the SL from your 52? Did you consider powering it by one of the Hicaps that will be redundant with the arrival of the 52/SC? If you do want to try this I think you will need a 4/5 interconnect too.

Finally, and I guess you alrerady know this....., the SL is very revealing and your P5's ability may well be shown up for what it is, a very good but budget deck!

Regards, Julian

17D2

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Olsen:
It is interesting as at times I find the 576R has too much detail, odd as it may sound, but that is what happened when I first used the Keel only to grow and appreciate it after a week or two. So maybe I will grow to appreciate the 576?

So I have decided to order a 560R and 576R from The SORG and use the 560R for a couple of months to really ‘get to know it’ and then try the 576R for a similar period to really ‘get to know’ it and then decide. As at the end of the day I want the right “feeling” from my Hi-Fi and therefore need to give these things a long trail such that when I change I can really “feel” whether the change is better or detrimental.

But regardless the music and involvement is stunning!

Richard

I think this is a really good description of the difference Richard. It sums it up very well. Maybe we should try and get hold of something around a 568R for the Akiva! Either way, both values are way better than using the "standard" 500R.

Kind regards,

Peter

quote:

Maybe we should try and get hold of something around a 568R for the Akiva!

Which is exactly why I bought 20no 560 ohm 1% resistors (with the hope of getting 2no 565 or 566's out of them and every one was less than 560)!

Never mind, maybe better luck next time. Unfortunately, Maplin only do 1% resistors!

Julian

Dynavector D172
I have replaced my glass platter with a Funk Acromat to reduce vibrations. I go back and forth every 6 months or so. I had a s/h Planar 3 to start with that was giving me problems, dealer said it wasn't worth trying to fix it was so old. I picked the P5 for it's bit of suspension and not fiddly set up, and price with cart was about 2 grand. I just couldn't rationalize an LP12 or Michel at about 5-7 grand. Still, every time I'd go to a record store at first it was easily a $100 of vinyl.

I hadn't thought the SL would be that revealing, but I bow to all you guys with more experience and better equipment. I was originally considering buying someone's used Stageline, but my dealer said it was a phenomenal piece of equipment and would be flexible so if I changed carts I wouldn't be restricted.

Well, it was all my big splurge, I'll have to wait for sticker shock to wear off and consider a new TT and cartridge. I"ve never heard a 52 so I was going by reviews and comments.

Having my TT on top of 5 levels of Fraim is also not ideal but I'm not about to drill into my landlord's walls for a shelf. I've done enough as it is drilling thru the wall low down to get power cables from the 300 in the bedroom and of course Naca5 to my speakers. I'm also on the second floor and somewhat near a busy road so I"m sure there are vibration problems that would drive you all mad.

Before I bought the p5 my dealer had a Gyro and I believe Koetsu cart playing a small jazz quartet out of Quads 5 years ago. I had to leave fast as it was a very mesmerizing sound. Tho I knew the Quads were much too big for my apartment, the spinning Gyro was pretty.

I really wonder if I've gotten in way over my head. I also wish I had more contact with Naimies in LA, but only met one.

Sometimes I fondly remember my 92/90, Planar 3, CD5 and wonder WHY go so high? Where does it all end?

I'd be happy to hear all of your comments. I spend about $600+ a year on concert tickets for the Phil and opera.

I have thought of keeping one Hicap to power the SL.

What are your experiences between powering from Pre or Hicap? My dealer said it was a debatable upgrade and I'm tight on space.

quote:

Sometimes I fondly remember my 92/90, Planar 3, CD5 and wonder WHY go so high?

I have a *fond memory* of Nait 3R/HC, the lowest spec LP12, too.
You upgrade not because what you have is bad, but because you could.

quote:

Where does it all end?

When money runs out.

Interesting series of questions/statements Wolf!

Best suggestion: Keep the 17D2, sell the P5 and the Hi-Cap as I can't see it helping much with only a P5 driving the Superline and put it all towards a turntable. There should be quite a few used LP12s if you go look, as they have made well over 100,000 of them. If not, by all means try your hand with a Michell if you like it's looks. Either will be better sounding with the SL being powered by the 52 than the P5 being powered by the Hi-Cap.

KR

Peter

You probably won't like this idea but..............

Sell your 300 and buy a used 250/2. Use the money you'd make (have left over) to further improve the source!

The 300 is a fantastic amp, but it needs to have the best signal you can give it. All it will be doing at the moment is show you the deficiencies further back up the chain

W2

In the strictist source first sense, fine deck though it is, the Gyro is not really enough for the SL either. Maybe a tricked out one would be up for it but not a plain jane jobbie with RB250/300.

Sometimes the "burden of ownership" is a dangerous thing, forcing you to spend more and more money to rebalance things up!

J

quote:

Originally posted by Cymbiosis:
There should be quite a few used LP12s if you go look, as they have made well over 100,000 of them.

There always will be a plentiful of used Lp12.

As you know, the set up is the key and that's harder to source.

IIRC, wolf's dealer is not too keen on an LP12 ( he's a Michel dealer ), so he'll get no help from his dealer as far as setting up a Sondek goes.