SuperLine Loading Thread.

quote:

The 500R plug has a resistance of just 510 ohms - according color codes on resistors and my measuring 1/(1/510 + 1/10000 internal) = 500 ohm
The 1K plug has a 1100 ohms resistors
1/(1/1100 + 1/10000 internal) = just 1000 ohm

If you put 500 ohm resistor you will get 476 ohm 1/(1/500 + 1/10000 internal) = 476 ohm

If you put 475 ohm resistor you will get dreaming 453 ohm 1/(1/475 + 1/10000 internal) = 453 ohm

Best regards,
Lyubomir

i dont understand:

510 in parallel with 10000 is 485 ohms
1100 in parallel with 10000 is 991 ohms
500 in parallel with 10000 is 476 ohms (we agree here...)
475 in parallel with 10000 is 453 ohms (we agree here...)

enjoy
ken

The label on the outside is "average"–i.e., it does not match the installed values inside the factory plug.

Lyubomir,

Before answering JeremyB's question I'd measured a few of the loading plugs I have here: The factory supplied 100R measured 100 ohms and the 220R measured 219 ohms. I also measured a few of the specials I've been trying: The 470R measured 467 ohms, the 453R measured 454 ohms and a 560R measured 563 ohms. The colour banding on them all looked good too agreeing with the external label.

I didn't have a 500R or a 1K as I now have used the plug bodies for 453 ohm resistors I requested from Naim. However on reading your post, I opened up a new Superline and tested the 500R and 1K. Yes, you are right on these two, they measure 510 and 1100 ohms respectively and the colour coding on mine agrees these values too.

So, where's this leave us? Well as David has said the labels are "average" and don't match the installed values. But that said, the measured values are all well within 5% of the label with the single exception of the 1K.

Personally, I'm happier just considering the plug rather than the value and I guess most users would feel the same. Once the best values have been identified and these are incorporated in the standard plug accessory pack - which I'm confident will eventually happen, maybe it would make sense to revert back to the K and S nomenclature with an additional couple of values such as D for Dynavector and O for Ortofon.

Would this make life easier for most Superline users - Any thoughts?

Kind regards,

Peter

It's interesting that so far I am the only one who's using a 220R/No caps setting. ( with a Miyabi/47 )

I wonder what other cartridges would benefit from lower value resistor plugs?

I've got a Superline on loan for a week or so. It's plugged via a Snaic 5 into the powered aux2 socket of my 252, as I don't have a spare outboard PSU to try it out with. My deck is a Roksan Xerxes20/XPS7, the arm is an Artemiz with a new hi-def arm cable installed and the cartridge is an Audio-Technica OC9MLII.

The Superline is a brand new unit and cold out of the box, with nothing plugged into the back, it sounded really excellent out of the box. I've since tried different plug combinations, including 500R/1nF, 220R and 100R and one or two others, and I have to say I can hardly hear anything that differs one combination from another. I've gone back to using no plugs and it still sounds as good as it did before, so I may stick with this until I have to give the unit back!

quote:

I have to say I can hardly hear anything that differs one combination from another.

JonR,

You're sure speakers cables are not wired out of phase?

Hi Jon,

I was just about to answer Kuma's question and saw your interesting post!

I am out of the plug loop now too. After many many hours of listening I found that any plug I try in the resistive or capacitive sockets compromises the Superline and the main effect is to mask TT setup issues. So far it looks like everything the plugs do such as reduce distortion, change timing and reduce pronounced bass etc can be addressed by mechanical means, at least with the two cartridges I am using. So I will be limiting my cartridge choice in future to those that can also work with the unplugged Superline which is opening up vinyl sound beyond belief.

Jeremy

quote:

Originally posted by Cymbiosis:
Lyubomir,

Before answering JeremyB's question I'd measured a few of the loading plugs I have here: The factory supplied 100R measured 100 ohms and the 220R measured 219 ohms. I also measured a few of the specials I've been trying: The 470R measured 467 ohms, the 453R measured 454 ohms and a 560R measured 563 ohms. The colour banding on them all looked good too agreeing with the external label.

I didn't have a 500R or a 1K as I now have used the plug bodies for 453 ohm resistors I requested from Naim. However on reading your post, I opened up a new Superline and tested the 500R and 1K. Yes, you are right on these two, they measure 510 and 1100 ohms respectively and the colour coding on mine agrees these values too.

So, where's this leave us? Well as David has said the labels are "average" and don't match the installed values. But that said, the measured values are all well within 5% of the label with the single exception of the 1K.

Personally, I'm happier just considering the plug rather than the value and I guess most users would feel the same. Once the best values have been identified and these are incorporated in the standard plug accessory pack - which I'm confident will eventually happen, maybe it would make sense to revert back to the K and S nomenclature with an additional couple of values such as D for Dynavector and O for Ortofon.

Would this make life easier for most Superline users - Any thoughts?

Kind regards,

Peter

Peter,

Thanks for attention to my post. In small value resistors the internal 10K have no reflection:
100R plug 1/(1/100)+ (1/10000) = 99 ohms
220R plug 1/(1/220) +(1/10000) = 217 ohms
If the resistors value increase, the internal 10K influence grow up.

According your post, internal 10K is take into account in "standart" plugs , while the "specials" plugs shows the resistors value.
If you put "special" 470R plug you will get approximately 450 ohms, 453R -> 434 ohms, 560R ->534 ohms ...

But I "hate" this ohms. I am a poor physicist and I want for my XV-1s "S" or new "D"

Best regards,
Lyubomir

quote:

Originally posted by lyubomir belchev:
But I "hate" this ohms. I am a poor physicist and I want for my XV-1s "S" or new "D"
Best regards,
Lyubomir

Me too Lyubomir. I am a former biologist, so I don't like "this ohms" either so either I use a colour chart to identify values or just ask the guys at Naim - much better! Personally, I just use my ears and whatever the overall resistance works out to, the plug with 453 ohms resistors inside is the best I have heard with the XV1-s. If you wish to experiment with resistors very close to this value, please let us know your findings.

Kind regards,

Peter

quote:

Originally posted by kuma:

quote:

I have to say I can hardly hear anything that differs one combination from another.

JonR,

You're sure speakers cables are not wired out of phase?

You've actually got me worried with that comment, kuma and I think I'm now going to have to double-check them when I get home! Having said that I have heard a pair of SBLs wired out of phase and the effect was very pronounced, and nothing like what I hear in my system!

quote:

Originally posted by Cymbiosis:


Personally, I'm happier just considering the plug rather than the value and I guess most users would feel the same. Once the best values have been identified and these are incorporated in the standard plug accessory pack - which I'm confident will eventually happen, maybe it would make sense to revert back to the K and S nomenclature with an additional couple of values such as D for Dynavector and O for Ortofon.

Would this make life easier for most Superline users - Any thoughts?

Kind regards,

Peter

Peter,

From my point of view it sounds a great idea as, as I have said before, I don't want to be tweeking around I just want the best music and not have that niggle that things could be tweeked better.

I had a Superline home demo from The Sound Organistaion (York) this week end, thanks David, and I did not even ask what loadings it had nor did we tweek around with different combinations or settings as I was happy to trust, and rely on, David's and the SORG's experience.

I was impressed by the music the SL produced and really enjoyed it (with a Supercap it was even more so!) and this is how it should be....a home demo that is straight forward with an excellent supplier who one can trust!

Now if I bought a SL and a new set of loadings was found to be better then I am sure that the SORG would let me know and hence I do not need to worry....once again that is how it should be in my opinion and I am prepared to pay a premium for such.

Richard


Richard

Latest Akiva loading report

Many of you may know that my system has been running at low ebb recently, partly due to a new Akiva, the Superline burn-in, new T-Kable and HiLine. Also, it has all been switched off while I was away on holiday and was switched back on only a week ago. Recently, a comment by Gary (Fozz), when seeing me express my frustrations on another thread encouraged me to re-try the standard interconnect. I have now established I do not like HiLine in my (analogue) system!

Since supplanting the HiLine for standard interconnect everything has moved up a few steps more to my preference. It’s still not “right” but it’s a lot better and has me listening happily again. Akiva still needs to loosen up some more, Superline needs to finish burning in and the rest lot needs to warm up fully.

So, getting down to the latest experiments, Peter very kindly asked me if I’d like to try some new loading plugs to see how I got on. Of course, I accepted straight away! As I understand it, these are all factory build trials in the values 549R, 576R and 590R.

549+1 – Soft, mechanical, unnatural, compressed lack of separation between instruments.
560+1 – (my previous favoured combination). A little restrained, shut in and congested when compared to the 576+1 combination.
576+1 – the new star for the Akiva? More natural, alive, free, purposeful. The improvement over the 560+1 is not subtle.
590+1 – more detailed than the 576+1, softer, mushy, unconvincing, insipid, a lack of articulation.

Next experiment will be to try the above without the 1nF plug.

As a result of the above I have decided to build some more plugs myself. I now need to try and find out where to get the right resistors! Perhaps some with values around 576?

For the techies, my SL is powered by a Supercap/Burndy. My T-Kable is terminated in BNC’s. The centre pin is still present in all the plugs I have tried. Source is an SE spec. Linn.

Julian

Hi Julian,

Admire your dedication.

Do you think the Hi-line plugs are OK? Is it worth trying another?

Regards,

Steve

Hi Steve

The HiLine looked fine to me. It was brand new out of the box when I got it. It was well dressed, massaged, inserted etc.., so I am sure installation was not at fault. I guess Peter will let me know when he gets it back if it is faulty. It did one thing that I liked, added scale. Unfortunately, I found everything else to be detrimental (at least to my taste!)

Julian

Hi Julian, sorry to hear of your frustrations. I have the 52 too like yourself and had a lot of trouble with the HiLine. BUT As I reported briefly on another thread I have however ended up with one!! let me explain.

I tried the HiLine on three occasions during a demo period and decided that it was very nice at some things but lacked drive. The very night before I was due to return it I gave it one more go - nearly fell out of the chair as all of a sudden it had both the cohesion and delicacy and drive. hmmmm.

I have concluded, and after discussion with Peter, that the hiline can be a bit of a bugger to get to work as it should particularly with the older gear. with my 52 the plug is VERY tight.

There are a lot of moving targets for you as the superline changes character a lot during burn in and you have all the other new gear too. Personally I would not bother with the centre pin experiment as you loose drive.

Weird old game this.

All the best

Gaz

quote:

with my 52 the plug is VERY tight.

My understanding is that you can have newer DIN sockets fitted to accommodate a HiLine better.

Gaz

I had noticed that you finally went with the HiLine when you mentioned it on another posting. I did go back and forth vs the standard IC several times but remained unconvinced.

I supposed I hae just saved some money towards a Powerline for the Lingo2?

J

quote:

Originally posted by Julian H:
576+1 – the new star for the Akiva? More natural, alive, free, purposeful. The improvement over the 560+1 is not subtle.

As a result of the above I have decided to build some more plugs myself. I now need to try and find out where to get the right resistors! Perhaps some with values around 576?
Julian

Interesting to see that your listening tests have produced very similar comments overall and with the 576R plug emerging on top.

Kind regards,

Peter

Hi Peter

I can't remember exactly how you described each plugs effect but broadly, I seem to have come to the same conclusion. I must admit to having gone back and forth between 560+1 and 576+1 quite a bit at one stage trying to work out what I was hearing differently. The 560+1 is still very good and on a few tracks I thought I preferred it. However, after second/third/fourth comparisons I came back to the 576+1 on those too.

Julian

Hi Kuma, well my 52 is a very recent service (12 months) to pots 8 etc. will have to check with base and see if they did anything there. Gaz

quote:

Originally posted by Julian H:

I had noticed that you finally went with the HiLine when you mentioned it on another posting. I did go back and forth vs the standard IC several times but remained unconvinced.

I supposed I hae just saved some money towards a Powerline for the Lingo2?

J

I am powering my SuperLine with my 552. I happen to have a spare HiCap2 lying around and as such borrowed a HiLine so as to compare the SuperLine powered by a 552 vs. HiCap/HiLine.

I previously found the 552PS to be superior to a HiCap2 when powering a SuperLine. The addition of the HiLine 4/5 to the equation seemed to elevate the inferior power supply (HiCap2) to the point where it could now favorably compare with the superior one (552PS) and maybe even give it a "slight" edge - a bit more clarity - but not enough to make it meaningful or significant. The 552PS seemed to maintain its advantage of having a bit more bottom end grunt and authority. At the end of the day one would easily be happy with either alternative - as such there really is no reason for me to consider purchasing a HiLine when I am lucky enough to have the 552PS at my disposition.

I will most likely follow a similar line and use the saved monies to fund a PowerLine - hoping it will make a significant enough difference to convince me to part with some of my funds.

Gregg

quote:

Originally posted by Fozz:
well my 52 is a very recent service (12 months) to pots 8 etc. will have to check with base and see if they did anything there.

They look the same as the new ones.
My 52 also went in for the update ('97 vintage ) but sockets were not changed as I was told it's labor intensive to change over all of the input sockets.

(with clarification) ...when it's unlikely you'd have issues with fitting of a Hi-Line in every socket–one would probably need only one or two sockets replaced in the end.

The other concern relates to the length of wire from the input sockets to the PCB, relative to the heat required (especially for lead-free re-work)–more than likely, it would be better to replace these wires with a new (short, same-length) run, hence the extra labor.

Otherwise, the performance might be decreased by a sloppy, though concerted, effort to replace the sockets alone.

thanks guys, I am leaving the sockets. A previous HiLine for my DVD fit ok into the tuner socket and while things sound good I am not messing any more.

After an impromptu listening session when we made a surprise visit to Dr Peter's superline emporium (other HiFi components are also available). :-
Short version Superline + HC? + standard I/C when we arrived. 4-5 HiLine = much improvement all round. SC+HL superb. Put standard I/C back somehow lost the music became duller somehow.Sally (Mrs) noticed these changes too.
I would point out that the standard lead was still very good just the HL was that much better.
I must admit to not noycing the differences between a couple of different loading plugs , but Peter changed them very quickly, I think he was just confirming what he already knew.