Are we sleep-walking out of Europe ?

Eloise posted:

So May and the (what’s left of) cabinet’s proposal from Friday... is that’s whats known as staying in by the back door?

And another thing, I note today May has done the impossible in finding common ground in Davis and Barnier... with both of them she has used statements similar to “I do not agree with your characterisation of the policy”.

TM is at least very more polite than Boris 

Hunt appointed Foreign secretary. It's not getting any easier for Today programme presenters.

Christopher_M posted:

Hunt appointed Foreign secretary. It's not getting any easier for Today programme presenters.

Christopher_M posted:

Hunt appointed Foreign secretary. 

Forgetting brexit for a moment,  I hope one JH's first priorities is to get over to Iran straighten out the mess that Boris has left.  Not least is the gaff & a half that he should have been sacked for on the spot when his mouth took over his brain (again) with the totally unnecessary & inappropriate suggestion to the HoC that Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe had been in Iran training journalists.

Christopher_M posted:

Hunt appointed Foreign secretary. It's not getting any easier for Today programme presenters.

The problem isn’t that it’s hard for Today presenters... the problem is when they don’t make it hard for government ministers...

Mike-B posted:

Christopher_M posted:

Hunt appointed Foreign secretary. 

Forgetting brexit for a moment,  I hope one JH's first priorities is to get over to Iran straighten out the mess that Boris has left.  Not least is the gaff & a half that he should have been sacked for on the spot when his mouth took over his brain (again) with the totally unnecessary & inappropriate suggestion to the HoC that Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe had been in Iran training journalists.

Hmmm - would imagine he'll be somewhat less embarrassing, though that's not exactly hard. Has a tendency though to go off-brief - witness his lectures to Airbus et al about making inappropriate demands that the UK should provide a stable business environment - based no doubt on his considerable experience as a captain of industry. Sorry, that should be as a third rate administrator responsible for managing the NHS into the ground...

Agree wholeheartedly though the way that BJ handled the Nazanin Zaghari Ratcliffe issue was a complete fur cup, and JH would certainly burnish his credentials if he could extract her from Iran, without immense tradeoffs. 

Christopher_M posted:

From BBC site, a tweet by Simon Pegg:

By Sunday, England may be coming home with a Trophy.

and no Cabinet.

Excellent!

Also, says a lot when I am reading this forum to find out what is happening back in the UK whilst my flight back to Leeds is delayed 6 hours (ETD Noel 03:45) 

Richard

MDS posted:

Huge posted:

Florestan posted:

Huge posted:

Followed immediately by a rewind of 2016 and a rerun of the brexit referendum of course!

...

Lastly, I think what the Remoaner's in the UK really need is the Remoaner equivalent cry (exorcism) of the following to bring you all together.  Maybe Theresa May could do the honours on her way out?  It would be cathartic, I'm hoping?  Just let it out....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLAZ4TS0-Y4

Since you are American I shall assume that you don't realise how offensive the term Remoaner is, and ask you to desist form using it.

Not offensive to me, Huge. I believe Brexit to be the stupidest idea I have seen a UK government take in my lifetime and I reserve the right to 'moan' about for the rest of my days.  

Remoan Means Remoan!  

Could it be that May is a Blair's secret agent, who is planted to sabotage Brexit?

Frank Yang posted:

Could it be that May is a Blair's secret agent, who is planted to sabotage Brexit?

Well, that might be much more credible than her being Corbyn’s stooge at which she is actually doing a remarkable job. ????

Almost can't go to bed for wondering who else will be gone in the morning..

Christopher_M posted:

Almost can't go to bed for wondering who else will be gone in the morning..

Well you wouldn't like to find yourself sleepwalking out of...... etc.

My bet is on Boris mounting a leadership bid with some more notable snakes in grass.  This is typical tory tactics,  knife in the back & gather in the troops who didn't have the balls to do it themselves.  If you think the Maybot has been chaos,  wait 'till Boris & the rest of his jurassic park fossils have a go at 'negotiating',  I suspect it will not go well.

Truth be told leaving the EU was always bordering on the impossible.  I believe David Cameron used the referendum as a tool to silence his parties eurosceptics & it was never imagined the vote would be to leave.  It's left an unsolvable problem in that it will never satisfy the majority no matter what,  & that goes for any party, tory or labour,  too hard brexit & its bad,  too soft & still in the EU in all but name.  On one hand international business & financial services pulls up sticks & leave & we end up as a 3rd rate has been.  The other means we only half leave, still in the customs & EU trade agreements,  can't negotiate our own trade deals & have to accept free people movement;  that will eventually end up with another UKIP type uprising,  this time with a lot more disgruntled public backing it.   It's a ferkin mess & maybe,  just maybe,  the maybots 'chequers' way might have some hope,  assuming she's left alone long enough to give it a try.     And I say all that as a dyed in the wool conservative voter who is not a 'tory'.

Mike said..

I believe David Cameron used the referendum as a tool to silence his parties eurosceptics & it was never imagined the vote would be to leave.

You have it in a nutshell. It was also a populist move by Cameron who was trying to re-attract Tory voters who had defected to UKIP.

The present cabinet problems stem from the fact that the ballot paper simply asked if you wanted to leave the EU - it didn't state under what terms hence the rise of the different groups supporting a hard or soft Brexit. Also the voters weren't really told by either group just how excruciating the process of leaving would be.

Ray

Hunt moved from Health to Foreign Office.

Every cloud.....

Bruce

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

Every cloud.....

Has a core of even worse, gloomier cloudiness?

Eloise posted:

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

Every cloud.....

Has a core of even worse, gloomier cloudiness?

I suspect that Hunt told May that he had had quite enough of the NHS and unless she wanted another resignation she’d better offer him Boris’ job. Soon we will have a cabinet and shadow cabinet whose only use would be as landfill.

What's more likely- TMs resignation or being ousted out by the end of today ?

Eloise posted:

Bruce Woodhouse posted:

Every cloud.....

Has a core of even worse, gloomier cloudiness?

Hey, I'm trying to be positive.

Few in my profession will lament his moving on. Intransigent, opaque and at times monumentally stupid health secretary.

It appeared the NHS for him was just a tool for his political advancement. He spouted all sorts of nonsense and fiddled in the background without grasping any of the core issues.

His attempts to increase GP recruitment and retention are utter failures. Rather than 'adding 5,000 by 2020' the numbers have fallen. A scheme to recruit up to 600 GPs from abroad has managed just 58 in 2 years.

His response to the recent breast screening issue showed a total lack of understanding of the system and also of basic statistics, creating far more stress than was appropriate.

Bruce

TOBYJUG posted:

What's more likely- TMs resignation or being ousted out by the end of today ?

May won’t  resign. She epitomes far too much the arrogant, self belief of the liberal political elite. She is way beyond anything other than messianic self belief dressed up in kitten heels. If as Home Secretary she had moderated her views on mass immigration, multiculturalism and a wide open doors policy, which she could have done tacitly under EU rules, and had complete control over outside of the EU, then we would not be on page whatever of this extended discourse. 

In my opinion she is worse than Blair in terms of having a God complex which may or may not be reinforced each Sunday at church in Buckinghamshire or via her husband’s interests and beliefs, but she is single handedly destroying this country. 

Our p trenches are dug and WWI style political combat will begin in earnest very shortly. I, of course, am relishing the battles. 

Sitting here.. I think the English public did not understand the ramifications of Brexit fully. 

Me David Cameron's move for a referendum was poorly thought out. 

It's not as simple as - which ice cream flavor do you prefer  ?

Resurrection posted:

TOBYJUG posted:

What's more likely- TMs resignation or being ousted out by the end of today ?

May won’t  resign. She epitomes far too much the arrogant, self belief of the liberal political elite. She is way beyond anything other than messianic self belief dressed up in kitten heels. If as Home Secretary she had moderated her views on mass immigration, multiculturalism and a wide open doors policy, which she could have done tacitly under EU rules, and had complete control over outside of the EU, then we would not be on page whatever of this extended discourse. 

In my opinion she is worse than Blair in terms of having a God complex which may or may not be reinforced each Sunday at church in Buckinghamshire or via her husband’s interests and beliefs, but she is single handedly destroying this country. 

Our p trenches are dug and WWI style political combat will begin in earnest very shortly. I, of course, am relishing the battles. 

That big hawser of a necklace/gurning horse collar hasn't gone unnoticed. As have those lovely slender ankles.

something that can't be undone has been unleashed on an unsuspecting public! whatever happens now will hurt the UK.  If I was Prime Minister I would revoke article 50, come up with a decent plan and then invoke Article 50 and get out of the EU with everyone happy and business etc ready for the transition. It might take 10 years but at least it would be done properly. There's nothing wrong with being outside the EU if you are ready and all bases are covered.

MPW

Thank you for your concerns regarding our national lack of intelligance and providing us with a mind altering ice-cream analogy.

The debate is so much clearer now - I'll have a pokey-hat please.

Ray

I don’t think the obvious needs said.

G